Liberty Peach Berliner Weisse (Sour Mash)

[jlflorance]

Do I just aerate as normal after the sour mash and boil before pitching the yeast?

 

[CadillacAndy]

Do I just aerate as normal after the sour mash and boil before pitching the yeast?

I did a shorter than normal boil. Just enough to blow off some of the less desirable aromas. Usually about 30 minutes. I oxygenate as normal as well before pitching the sacch.

 

[dtpd]

I have a similar sour mashed berliner weisse I wanted to add some fruit to. I am thinking of adding peach tonight. I'm going to go with about 3 pounds as it is a 3 gallon batch (6 gallons split into 2 fermenters, only fruiting half). I see your recipe calls for coring them and freezing them. What does freezing the fruit add? Is there anything else that is done to prevent any bugs from getting in the beer, or is that not of concern?

 

[CadillacAndy]

I have a similar sour mashed berliner weisse I wanted to add some fruit to. I am thinking of adding peach tonight. I'm going to go with about 3 pounds as it is a 3 gallon batch (6 gallons split into 2 fermenters, only fruiting half). I see your recipe calls for coring them and freezing them. What does freezing the fruit add? Is there anything else that is done to prevent any bugs from getting in the beer, or is that not of concern?

When freezing the ice crystal will puncture the cell walls and make the sugar and flavors more accessible. It doesn't really do much for sanitizing them. The alcohol and acidity in the beer will handle that usually.

Let me know if you have more questions. Can't wait to hear how it turns out. Cheers!

 

[MrFeltimo]

I think I will try this out.
I can only get a hold of canned peaches, will they work?
Great recipe, Thanks

 

[MrFeltimo]

Question, is the OG on your recipe not way to high for style if entering a bjcp comp?
How did you score so well?, I mean WELL DONE, that's great, but we are encouraged to follow strict guidelines when entering these comps ?

 

[CadillacAndy]

Question, is the OG on your recipe not way to high for style if entering a bjcp comp?
How did you score so well?, I mean WELL DONE, that's great, but we are encouraged to follow strict guidelines when entering these comps ?

It is technically out of style but judges don't know the starting gravity or finishing gravity. It's judged based on how it tastes. They're guidelines not strict rules.

I also enter in the the fruit beer category and the fruit adds a decent amount of additional sugar. I have on occasion heard comments that it tastes too big to be a real Berliner Weisse but even one of the commercial examples in the guidelines is 5% abv - Weihenstephan 1809.

Hopefully that makes sense. Cheers!

 

[MrFeltimo]

Thanks for the reply,
I just made this recipe and am super excited. I did make mine to style guidelines however and it's still in primary.
I am looking to add frozen peaches.
Thanks again.
Dan.

 

[CadillacAndy]

Thanks for the reply,
I just made this recipe and am super excited. I did make mine to style guidelines however and it's still in primary.
I am looking to add frozen peaches.
Thanks again.
Dan.

Awesome! Let me know how it turns out. Was the sour mash clean? Have you tasted it yet?

 

[MrFeltimo]

Yeah sour mash was super clean and with no "vomit and death" smell.
I had flushed the tun with plenty of C02, I was also surprised how sour it got too, never having done a sour mash before.

 

[jaydavis]

subscribing to save the recipe. looks great!

 

[christyle]

Just got this started last night and have a couple questions:

- Does the grain added after the mash need to be unmilled to work? I forgot to get a bit unmilled. I pulled a cup of the grain bill out and added when it dropped to 115 deg
- I wasn't thinking and used my normal mash amount (5 gallons), rather than the 3 or so you used. Will this just make for a longer period before the mash is soured?
- What temp should I keep it above? I have it in my 10G igloo with a blanket around it

 

[CadillacAndy]

Just got this started last night and have a couple questions:

- Does the grain added after the mash need to be unmilled to work? I forgot to get a bit unmilled. I pulled a cup of the grain bill out and added when it dropped to 115 deg
- I wasn't thinking and used my normal mash amount (5 gallons), rather than the 3 or so you used. Will this just make for a longer period before the mash is soured?
- What temp should I keep it above? I have it in my 10G igloo with a blanket around it

It shouldn't matter if the grain is milled or unmilled.

Your volume should be fine. Just use less sparge water so your gravity and volume is correct.

Try to keep it as warm as you can but not going over 120F once you add the grain/lactobacillus.

Does that all make sense? Fire away with any other questions.

 

[christyle]

I couldn't imagine the milling would change anything, but this is my first sour mash, so who knows.

Will it just take longer to sour the mash, because it's more volume?

For keeping it warm, I think I read someone added hot water to the Tun, is that generally the best method? Specific methods of doing it to disturb as little as possible?

Really excited to get this nailed down before summer. Not sure if i'll add fruit yet or not, I like them just as a base beer, if it's anything like the Bruery's Hottenroth.

Thanks!

 

[CadillacAndy]

I couldn't imagine the milling would change anything, but this is my first sour mash, so who knows.

Will it just take longer to sour the mash, because it's more volume?

For keeping it warm, I think I read someone added hot water to the Tun, is that generally the best method? Specific methods of doing it to disturb as little as possible?

Really excited to get this nailed down before summer. Not sure if i'll add fruit yet or not, I like them just as a base beer, if it's anything like the Bruery's Hottenroth.

Thanks!

The volume shouldn't make a huge difference. The gravity is lower since there is more water. I generally use a pH meter or pH strips to figure out how long to leave it. There are a lot of factors involved so you can't always go strictly based on time.

I have a dead fridge that I put a space heater in to keep my temps up. You want to keep oxygen out so opening it to add water probably isn't a great option.

I use a purged corny keg for lacto souring now. It works very well.

 

[christyle]

I checked it yesterday morning and the pH strip seemed to indicate it was at a 4, I'll check again today and probably sparge and boil. You said 3 is a good spot? I don't mind it being tart at all.

I just left it in my cooler wrapped in a blanket. Sample about 36 hrs later was at about 90 still, do I'll just leave it be and see how it goes.

 

[christyle]

Mash ended up to be around a pH of 3 according to my test strips. Boiled for about 45 mins to bring volume down (Wasn't sure when the smell was considered gone, always smelled funky to me haha). Cooled and pitched 2 packs of rehydrated US-05. My OG came out to about 1.05. The sample seemed a little salty to me. I'll be interested to see how it comes out, as the initial taste isn't quite what I was expecting. Given the taste, I definitely think i'll give the peach a try on at least half of it.

 

[CadillacAndy]

Looking forward to hear how it turns out. Keep me posted.

 

[christyle]

Well after brewing Sunday, and getting a slow start to fermentation, ive got massive activity now, blowing through the airlock and the 5/16 blowoff tube I replaced it with nearly instantly... I basically had a tablespoon or two of yeast in my airlock haha. We'll see what I come home to tonight!

 

[revco]

I finally put this one on tap and thought I'd share my experience and thoughts.

I modified the recipe to be inline with a traditional Berliner Weisse and hit right around 3.2% ABV. Having tasted it, I think it's a bit thin this way when keeping the grain percentages, but this is typical of a lot of B-Weisse's I've had. The original recipe probably doesn't have this issue, so if I make it again, I think I'll stick with the original grain volumes scaled to OG on my system. I also went with .75oz of Hellertauer hops for a 10G batch and threw the rest of the ounce in at flame out, and overall didn't regret that decision.

My sour mash was augmented with some Wyeast Lacto, Co2 additions and plastic wrap over the mash, which I think helped contribute to a pretty clean sour and no "vomit and death" smell from the mash. (It sure ain't chocolate chip cookies, though!) I didn't quite plan out my brew days well enough and got probably close to 60 hour sour mash, instead of a true three days (72 hours). The sour profile is decidedly present, but not as strong as I had hoped I would get...so I would do 72 hours straight up next time. That said, if you're not a fan of super-sours, the 60 hour mash is fairly pleasant. I didn't bother testing for pH, just kind of went off taste of the mash.

I split a 10 gallon batch into two flavorings, a peach and a blackberry. I added just over 2 ounces of peach flavoring, increasing it slightly from the original recipe to get a better peach punch. As for the blackberry, since it's a stronger flavor, I used about 1.5 ounces of blackberry flavoring. Both were Brewcraft, I believe. Fruit was standard per the original recipe. I've only tasted the blackberry so far, and it's just about right...plus, it gives a nice pleasant purple tone to the beer. I'm really looking forward to the peach version when it comes up.

I was all concerned with getting a good fermentation that I went a little overkill on the yeast starters. Note to self...even a 3.2% beer will explode when given enough yeast. A starter helps, but you don't need to go overboard with a 2L starter, for sure, unless you really like to see yeast fireworks. This ain't no lager! But, I did have fermentation within about 8 hours and an overflow on day 2...so that's good?

Overall, it's a pretty tasty beer...certainly not the best within the style I've tasted, but decidedly above mediocre. Let's just say I'd brew it again, but I'm not firing up the brew gear to make another batch after the first few pints. Thanks for the recipe!

 

[schmeek]

Nice recipe, I think I might have to give this one a shot but I have a couple questions. First, during the sour mash I thought I might try to inject CO2 through the spigot of my mash tun in order to purge O2 up and out of the mash. I was thinking of getting a tube to run from the beer line of an empty keg to the spigot of the tun and hopefully shoot some CO2 thru the keg and into the tun? Thoughts?
Second, I was thinking of adding about a pound or so of acidulated malt after the initial 60 min mash in order to help bring the pH down a bit more. Would that negatively affect the lacto in any way? I was going to use wyeast lacto to sour.
Also, revco noted that the beer was a bit dry, did anybody who stuck with the original grain bill feel this way? Should I try adding some dextrin or mashing higher?

This will be my first sour brew, thanks for the info!

 

[revco]

I think Co2, however you add it to your mash tun, is beneficial. I didn't have the "vomit and death" smells that the OP indicated, and others have correlated the same. It doesn't smell amazing, but it's not intolerable like I assume vomit and death is. I also used plastic wrap, after purging with Co2, to cover the sour mash and blasted a wee bit more Co2 in just for good measure each time I disturbed the mash for sampling and such.

I don't think I said it was dry (it's semi-dry with a good touch of sweet), but rather that a lower grain bill scaled to fit the berlinner weisse style turns out a bit "thin" in my opinion. That can be good, too, but I think this particular grain bill would benefit from more grain, more sugar and all of that would translate to more body. As I mentioned, when I do it again, I'll be following the OP's recipe more or less and considering it an "imperial" berlinner weisse or maybe a fruited farmhouse ale. I think it's OK in this case to resist the urge to correct the recipe into style.

 

[christyle]

The beer is already well above style, I believe normal is closer to 2-3%. I am greatly enjoying mine on the peaches, the "clean" version I did with no fruit, not as much, but both are improving over a few weeks. I am adjusting my next batch this week with a touch more wheat malt (4.5lbs total) To make up for some slight inefficiencies in my system/techniques. Id be interested to know how the acid malt affects things, as I'm not 100% sold on the sour this gives. My problem is also that I don't have any C02 to purge with, so my results will vary. I'm also not going to let the acidity drop as much, more in the range of 4 before I kill it.

I am brewing it again this week, intending to split half onto Mangos and half on raspberry. Really like this as a base recipe for a fruited sour.

 

[schmeek]

Ok good deal. Revco, how did you purge the mash? Through the top underneath the plastic wrap?
Christyle, I like the idea of trying different fruits too. Peach is a very delicate flavor and I think something like raspberries would add to the perceived tartness.
I think I'll leave the grain bill alone and do a thick mash , ~1qt/lb so I can add a small bit of boiling water during souring to keep the temp up. I read that the bad bugs die at 112F but I'm sure it will be hard to keep the temp in that range for 2-3 days.
Also have to weigh the pros and cons between having that O2 exposure during the souring to add boiling water vs having your temp drop too low and not getting sour enough or getting other bugs and off flavors.
I think I'm going to try keeping the mash in my laundry room with the hot water heater and see if that helps. Maybe outside? It's pretty hot in FL right now.

 

[christyle]

I would suggest against adding the water, but that's me. The few people I talked to about the sour mash said low temps is the lesser of two evils compared to oxygen exposure. With mine in a 10Gal cooler tun, I dropped about 20 deg a day, maybe, over the 3 days. I wrapped it in a blanket, and my lid is filled with foam.

 

[schmeek]

Ok, I'll heed your advice then. I have a 5gal cooler and it barely drops 1 deg F during a 60 min mash. Any advice against leaving it outside during the day? It's topping out at 92F this weekend

 

[revco]

I just used my regulator with a valve and an open hose to purge the mash tun, straight through the top, before and (briefly) after laying the saran wrap. Co2 is heavier than O2, so it'll generally sink. When I "re-purged" after disturbance/sampling (probably completely unnecessary), I just shot a second or so back in to be sure I didn't introduce O2 back in.

I did a somewhat thin mash and added water to keep it above 90, and I'd suggest on your first run with a sour mash you do this. Reason being, we can't tell you how fast your temps will drop, so it's better to be prepared to maintain temps if you need to the first go-round. It might be you find you don't need to adjust temps, I had to adjust every 24 hours. If you're able to purge with CO2, there's little concern there.

Edit: Keeping it outside should be fine, I would probably bring it in at night, though. I live in Montana, though, we have 40-60+ degree temp diffs between night and day much of the time.

 

[christyle]

I wish I had the means to C02 purge, it would make for a much more stable operation. If you have the means to purge, revco's method sounds spot on, it's how I would do it.

 

[schmeek]

I'm about to start my mash and was wondering if I should skip adding any Camden tablets to my tap water as I usually do. I did t want to interfere with the lacto in any way

 

[CadillacAndy]

I'm about to start my mash and was wondering if I should skip adding any Camden tablets to my tap water as I usually do. I did t want to interfere with the lacto in any way

I've always added campden to my water with all of my beers, including this one. If your water has chloramine it could really cause some off flavors. Either way, the campden volatilizes quickly. If you don't have chloramines, just filter it to get rid of chlorine.