LHBS prices vs buying online

[45_70sharps]

Not necessarily true, there is another brew shop no more than 10 minutes away i wont mention(locals likely know) that charges from what i have seen to be 20-40% more on grain and upwards of 100% more for things like hops and other brewing things like Starsan than Brew Brothers...and from what ive heard thats the reason they(Brew Brothers) opened their shop in the first place because they realized what a markup the only brew shop at the time in the area was taking.

But i do agree its probably a volume thing, but not all the local shops are as...fair with their pricing.

Well true.
The stores are run by people. Some people do good business by being fair, some are not people you want to deal with.





As for the question that someone else posted about local prices, I just check.

When I was at the brew store I took pictures of the grain inventory with the vain hope that I would be able to read all the labels on the bins, input the grains into Beersmith as my inventory with like 1 oz of inventory just so that I would know what was available.
I got a picture of their prices.

Base malts 89 cents a pound.
All others $1.25 per pond

Not bad, especially since they aren't exactly busy when I go in there.
I would assume that I could cut that down a bit if I ordered some bulk.

 

[wormraper]

I would have to buy a LOT of brew supplies to make online shopping worthwile for 99% of stuff. certain things like sugar and giant bulk hop orders are cheaper online ($2 an oz for all their hops or $24 a lb for hops) but most everything else is just as cheap as Northern brewer and other such online stores

 

[Airplanedoc]

Looking at brewbrothers prices, they may have some new business, next time i order.

 

[thadius856]

What scares me is that you might be right about this.

When it happens, the economy will begin to crumble.
Retail is a huge part of the economy and when you get rid of the jobs associated with it, the tax the stores pay ( beyond sales tax ), the tax the jobs create, the development and realestate sales loss, the garbage collection, the electrical use and on and on, you lost a ton of money in the community.
When those jobs and fees are eliminated, there are less people with money in their pocket so everything else, right down to McDonalds has lost customers and so some of those begin to go away.
A chain reaction is started and there are few jobs left.

Even someone like me pays.
I'm a surveyor so you can't outsource my job, can't mail order it either.
If people in my community aren't working, they aren't calling me.

Completely disagree with this.

Moving your shopping online doesn't kill jobs any more than cell phones killed telecommunication, and it's a pretty good analogy. Landlines (B&M stores) are becoming rare and often redundant, cell phone sales (online stores) have boomed, and we spend a lot more time on them (more money with them).

The stocker job becomes a warehouse inventory job. The cashier job becomes a packer/shipper job with the machine doing the invoice for them. The display job becomes the website item listing job. Customer service is still customer service, just through a different medium. Etc etc.

It doesn't kill jobs. It just shifts them. If you end up spending more money than before because it's easier to shop in your pajamas from your iPad, then that generates jobs.

Don't forget that you're creating additional jobs at the shipping company as demand rises. We're getting to the point where Amazon is tooling up distribution centers for same-day delivery in some areas.

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

Looking at brewbrothers prices, they may have some new business, next time i order.

Good i hope they get some new business, they are an awesome shop. Always giving away free samples of their brew from their 2 tap tower kegerator in the corner.

 

[thadius856]

Base malts 89 cents a pound.
All others $1.25 per pond

My LHBS is $1.40/lb for 2-row and Northwest Pale, $1.90/lb for specialty.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

Well true.
The stores are run by people. Some people do good business by being fair, some are not people you want to deal with.





As for the question that someone else posted about local prices, I just check.

When I was at the brew store I took pictures of the grain inventory with the vain hope that I would be able to read all the labels on the bins, input the grains into Beersmith as my inventory with like 1 oz of inventory just so that I would know what was available.
I got a picture of their prices.

Base malts 89 cents a pound.
All others $1.25 per pond

Not bad, especially since they aren't exactly busy when I go in there.
I would assume that I could cut that down a bit if I ordered some bulk.

Great price on base malts compared to my LHBS. They are asking $1.35 lb for american 2 row. I purchased a 50 # bag for $52, or $1.04 per pound. No where close to your price.

Most other grains are $1.95 compared to your $1.25.

I now understand why we stand so far apart on this issue.

To sum it up, I got screwed

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

Completely disagree with this.

Moving your shopping online doesn't kill jobs any more than cell phones killed telecommunication, and it's a pretty good analogy. Landlines (B&M stores) are becoming rare and often redundant, cell phone sales (online stores) have boomed, and we spend a lot more time on them (more money with them).

The stocker job becomes a warehouse inventory job. The cashier job becomes a packer/shipper job with the machine doing the invoice for them. The display job becomes the website item listing job. Customer service is still customer service, just through a different medium. Etc etc.

It doesn't kill jobs. It just shifts them. If you end up spending more money than before because it's easier to shop in your pajamas from your iPad, then that generates jobs.

Don't forget that you're creating additional jobs at the shipping company as demand rises. We're getting to the point where Amazon is tooling up distribution centers for same-day delivery in some areas.

I wont go off topic too much except i think your right and what scares a lot of people more than anything is the new jobs that its shifting to require much more tech savvy requiring skills they might not possess. A stocker job going to warehouse inventory means they have to know how to use things like excel and databases just for an entry level job...which to me is fine, its the advancement of our civilization...no different than the big shift that came with the industrial revolution... i think a lot of people just expected to ride out their entire lives pushing a button on a metal press making car parts and didnt plan on what happens when they make a robot that can push the button too.

 

[Jayhem]

My LHBS is roughly DOUBLE the cost than I pay for my specialty grains from Farmhousebrewingsupply and I don't have to drive 45 min each way to get them. As much as I'd love to support local businesses it just doesn't make sense in my case.

 

[wormraper]

My LHBS is $1.40/lb for 2-row and Northwest Pale, $1.90/lb for specialty.

mines $1.19 for 2-row and most other grains are $1.69-$1.79.... I would kill for $0.89 a lb for base grains.... might need to do a group buy for bulk grains in tucson

 

[45_70sharps]

Completely disagree with this.

Moving your shopping online doesn't kill jobs any more than cell phones killed telecommunication, and it's a pretty good analogy. Landlines (B&M stores) are becoming rare and often redundant, cell phone sales (online stores) have boomed, and we spend a lot more time on them (more money with them).

The stocker job becomes a warehouse inventory job. The cashier job becomes a packer/shipper job with the machine doing the invoice for them. The display job becomes the website item listing job. Customer service is still customer service, just through a different medium. Etc etc.

It doesn't kill jobs. It just shifts them. If you end up spending more money than before because it's easier to shop in your pajamas from your iPad, then that generates jobs.

Don't forget that you're creating additional jobs at the shipping company as demand rises. We're getting to the point where Amazon is tooling up distribution centers for same-day delivery in some areas.

So... When I order the latest do dad on line, in what way does that help my local economy?

If I order from Amazon.com and they drop ship from the factory, how many people are cut out of the loop?

If five stores close down in my little county, we have lost tax revenue and paying jobs while at the same time not even having an impact on the volume of big online retailers so no jobs are added.

One warehouse worker at a big online retailer replaces a lot of local jobs.
They are more or less a very efficient production line that ships out orders.
Regardless, if the warehouse isn't in your hometown, you have lost in the local economy.
If those people are out of work they are not spending at places like where I work.

 

[SpentGrains]

Don't forget that you're creating additional jobs at the shipping company as demand rises. We're getting to the point where Amazon is tooling up distribution centers for same-day delivery in some areas.

Yep, the new Amazon warehouse will be going up close by in Tracy/Patterson. Good for the local economy and same day delivery? Double sweet.

Let's also not forget that the internet age helps a lot of small businesses become successful that would not otherwise thrive in a small local economy. Most of the sponsors on this site probably fit that description.

 

[Arrheinous]

I could literally walk to my LHBS. And it's a family business and they host events and such.

I've cut a lot of costs by going AG and I'm on the brink of starters. But as far as grain goes I'll stick with them as their prices are on par with per pound online (bulk makes a difference). Plus I'm getting good efficiencies with their milling and they're even open seven days a week until 7.

I am shopping around for hops though. I'd like to get it closer to $1/oz compared to $2.30 right now.

 

[slcdawg]

I do a mix of LHBS and online. I bought my original equipment, almost all my yeast, and some kits from the LHBS. I like to order kits from online shops since there is more variety. If I'm buying for a recipe I'll get the hops online since the LHBS sometimes doesn't have them. And get the grain from the LHBS.

If you get helpful tips and can bounce ideas off the guys in the shop, its worth paying a little extra.

 

[thadius856]

So... When I order the latest do dad on line, in what way does that help my local economy?

I didn't say it does. Other than sales tax revenues, which many places still have archaic, broken laws for, there is no local benefit. That's not the point.

If I order from Amazon.com and they drop ship from the factory, how many people are cut out of the loop?

Pretty thin argument here, since clearly nobody can answer this one specifically. Why don't we flip it on it's head, then...

How many people are added to the loop? Other than those I mentioned as a straight trade, we have the shipper, the team that developed the website, the marketing team that lead you to the website, the engineers who designed the automation systems, the construction workers that build the factory, the heavy machine operators that assembled the place, the mechanic that maintains the new machinery, etc.

If five stores close down in my little county, we have lost tax revenue and paying jobs while at the same time not even having an impact on the volume of big online retailers so no jobs are added.

One warehouse worker at a big online retailer replaces a lot of local jobs.

Then the people in your county would be forced to do their shopping online, which... wait for it... creates the jobs elsewhere. Why isn't your little county incentivizing online retailers to move there and pump your local economy?

Sure does. Replacing several inefficient processes with more efficient ones is the only way economies grow without increasing exports or popping out more babies.

It used to be every gas station had a service station in it. Now they don't. The mechanics didn't just disappear. They moved down the street to the auto shop.

They are more or less a very efficient production line that ships out orders.
Regardless, if the warehouse isn't in your hometown, you have lost in the local economy.
If those people are out of work they are not spending at places like where I work.

You've already identified the problem: your business, whatever it does, is less efficient and can't operate at the same price point. So then why is your business allowing stagnation and not innovating?

This trend toward an online economy is quite parallel to how the industrial revolution killed the cottage industry, don't you think?

 

[Jayhem]

mines $1.19 for 2-row and most other grains are $1.69-$1.79.... I would kill for $0.89 a lb for base grains.... might need to do a group buy for bulk grains in tucson

Yup my last group buy I got 2-row and Pilsen for $.75/lb shipped and it could have been $.65/lb if we had shipped to a business address.

 

[45_70sharps]

One thing this thread has shown me is how lucky I am.
The brew store I go to might not be close, but when I'm in town their grain prices are pretty darn good.
Better than the posted online prices since they are 89 cents a pound for base malts and $1.25 for anything else.

They aren't even that busy in there. I'm not sure how they do it unless it's because everyone is like me.
I stop in for say... $30 worth of stuff.
I walk out with $100 worth of stuff that I decided I needed when I was waiting for them to put my order together.

 

[baulz]

Why does anyone buy Coriander at any kind of homebrew supply store? At my local bulk food store I pay 28 cents for an ounce from what I remember.

You folks are lucky to have somewhere local to buy supplies, closest LHBS for me is over an hour away.

 

[DonLiguori]

I find supporting my local homebrew store is easy. I know I'm paying a bit more for grains, hops, yeast, and supplies, but as they get to know me there are benefits to going there. Sometimes its as simple as a free sample of this, a leftover that, getting grain freshly milled (I haven't yet put down on my own mill, I have only a burr grinder), but they also have beer samples from local brewers or beers they brew there, brewing vendors send reps for info sessions and handouts, breweries send brewers over to talk about different yeast strains and grains, and there are even hands-on brewing sessions for people just starting. It's like a live-action forum. If you're willing to be a premium supporter on this forum, why not pay the few extra bucks to be a premium supporter of your LHBS? All this in addition to any extra money floating around your community.

Besides, when the anarchists take over the world and knock out the satelites, you're gonna have to take your horse and buggy to the LHBS anway, so you might as well get on good terms with them now. You know, since you'll be bartering for the supplies in the future.

 

[45_70sharps]

Then the people in your county would be forced to do their shopping online, which... wait for it... creates the jobs elsewhere. Why isn't your little county incentivizing online retailers to move there and pump your local economy?

You missed the entire point.
If you displace local jobs, then not only is the tax from that company gone but the jobs are also.
You have people without the income to spend and your job is soon to follow.

It's the same thing as when people want to save a buck and buy a product made in China instead of American made.
If you cause your neighbors to be unemployed to save a couple bucks, then you will certainly follow when the people around you can't afford to spend money on whatever pays your check.

If you understand economics, by spending a dollar local you are actually getting a return that doesn't exist when you send your money away.

As for incentive for online retailers to move here or any other particular area, there isn't infrastructure for online companies to ship and I do not care to live near freeways, rail ways or major airports.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

Besides, when the anarchists take over the world and knock out the satelites, you're gonna have to take your horse and buggy to the LHBS anway, so you might as well get on good terms with them now. You know, since you'll be bartering for the supplies in the future.

Hope ur kidding right?

 

[Varmintman]

One thing this thread has shown me is how lucky I am.
The brew store I go to might not be close, but when I'm in town their grain prices are pretty darn good.
Better than the posted online prices since they are 89 cents a pound for base malts and $1.25 for anything else.

They aren't even that busy in there. I'm not sure how they do it unless it's because everyone is like me.
I stop in for say... $30 worth of stuff.
I walk out with $100 worth of stuff that I decided I needed when I was waiting for them to put my order together.

I walk in needing enough stuff for 3 batches or well under 50 bucks. Leon hands me a glass and tells me keep her full while I get this stuff together. Next thing I know I am half drunk and buying way more stuff than I need or even want.

 

[Arrheinous]

To note, at my LHBS:
- Base Malts: 1.49 for things like Munich, Pilsner, Wheat
- Crystal: Mostly 1.89 to maybe 2.09
- High Kiln: Around 2.00
- Roasted: 1.89 to 2.00

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

I walk in needing enough stuff for 3 batches or well under 50 bucks. Leon hands me a glass and tells me keep her full while I get this stuff together. Next thing I know I am half drunk and buying way more stuff than I need or even want.

Haha sounds like a nice guy. Wish my experience was similar.

 

[Jayhem]

You missed the entire point.
If you displace local jobs, then not only is the tax from that company gone but the jobs are also.
You have people without the income to spend and your job is soon to follow.

It's the same thing as when people want to save a buck and buy a product made in China instead of American made.
If you cause your neighbors to be unemployed to save a couple bucks, then you will certainly follow when the people around you can't afford to spend money on whatever pays your check.

If you understand economics, by spending a dollar local you are actually getting a return that doesn't exist when you send your money away.

As for incentive for online retailers to move here or any other particular area, there isn't infrastructure for online companies to ship and I do not care to live near freeways, rail ways or major airports.

I know this was aimed at someone else but I wanted to comment on it.

The way I see it, my state has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country (4.5%ish?). Why not buy from a supplier in the Midwest where the unemployment rate is 9%? It's still buying American. I support local business in my home state with my fuel, food, and entertainment costs and Lord knows the local government gets plenty of my money in taxes!

 

[DonLiguori]

Hope ur kidding right?

Sarcasm FTW. Unless it happens. Then, I guess it's a good thing to be prepared.

Being prepared FTW.

 

[45_70sharps]

I know this was aimed at someone else but I wanted to comment on it.

The way I see it, my state has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country (4.5%ish?). Why not buy from a supplier in the Midwest where the unemployment rate is 9%? It's still buying American. I support local business in my home state with my fuel, food, and entertainment costs and Lord knows the local government gets plenty of my money in taxes!

The comment was back at another guy, but I think every comment is open to rebuttal by anyone. It's a pretty open discussion.
Well you can certainly do what you want, but in the big picture, like was stated way back, the threat of the ecommerce replacing the local stores is the big picture.
Any one industry isn't really going to be the trigger that causes the problem.
If no one bought from the local brew store and they went under, that would have very little effect on the economy.

The big picture though is based on the pattern of all the little decisions that are made.
It's completely based on one small purchase at a time and that purchase isn't a problem.
The combination of all those meaningless purchases is the problem, sort of like death by a million paper cuts.

You have to decide as an individual if you are going to contribute to the shift to online or to supporting the local stores.

There are times when I don't shop local and go to stores out of town for example simply because the local store isn't a good store. Price, service and other factors can make me not go to a store.
Price by it's self though doesn't mean that they have to be the cheapest option, only that I think they are being fair.
There is more overhead cost per item in a local store and the buying power sometimes means that they don't get the item for what an online retailer does.

 

[vic_and_krystal]

My LHBS is 2 hours away so after figuring gas in with everything it is so not worth making that drive.. Only thing about online is the shipping...Morebeer took 9 days to send my last batch... What is the best online store? I also used brewers best with my first kit, it only took a few days to get here and they had the best customer service. Can't say that with morebeer...

 

[WyomingBrewer]

As the owner of the LHBS I must say Im a bit hurt. I shop the on-line stores and try to compete but I also have to be realistic. I pay X amount for a product from my supplier, X amount for shipping to my store, Rent, Utilities, labor, etc.... I think my prices are fair but I can not charge what the on-line stores do. If my business were to increase and I had a cash flow that was consistent I could drop prices to be more competitive. As it is with being a new business and the rates I have to pay to get items here and on the shelf you can buy them for less on-line. Factor in shipping and waiting for delivery and Im clearly the better option plus I'm right here for you Monday thru Saturday!

 

[Stocktonbrew]

Support local home brew shops. It was a bummer to see our LHBS close years ago. Now I drive an hour to get supplies. I know i pay more, but its worth it to support the community. Its also frustrating that most of my brew equipment says MADE IN CHINA on it.