LHBS Manager Here...What Do You Want From The LHBS?

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ballapcb

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LHBS people seem to have a bad rap around here, so, tell me what you want of a LHBS: and, go!
Seriously people, I want to know. 40+ malts and 40+ hops, plus the full line of Wyeast, with DanStar and Fermentis dry yeast! BIAB Classes! What am I missing?
 
Bad rap? I love my LHBS... but I guess variety, and if thats too hard to accommodate, maybe a form for special orders, online or in the shop. I like experimenting with different hops, malts, yeast strains. I know its hard to stock 100 different types of malt but I'd rather ask for some golden naked oats and wait to get them local than buy online.
 
I'm happy to hear my first response is what I'm trying to do. Small businesses can't keep everything in stock, but I'm happy to special order something if you're willing to wait a couple of weeks until I can get it in. Thanks for having some love for the local guys!
 
I try to like my LHBS, but the @$$holish attitude of some of the employees just makes it not worth the hassle...

Especially when I'm close enough to Morebeer that I get practically next day delivery with cheaper prices on bulk grains.

I still hit the LHBS up for last minute items or to stock up on bottle caps... But for grains and hops, I shop online in bulk... Both for price, and to avoid the attitude.
 
Thanks jratcliff
Much of the feedback I get regards the indifferent or arrogant service received, so this really resonates. For what it's worth, I'm attempting to break the trend and be equally as helpful to the guy making an extract Gose and all grain Bud Light (both of which happened this week).
 
I don't have a LHBS in my town but when I visit other places I'll always check out the LHBS.

A pet peeve for me (and this applies to retail in general) is products without a price sticker. If I'm just browsing, it's really annoying to have to ask the price for every item I might be interested in.

And I don't mind paying a bit more for stuff at the LHBS since a retail shop has costs associated with that and the friendly banter is part of the experience, but the price has to be in the ballpark. One place I went to were selling base malt in 1kg bags for NZ$15 per kg, the same product online is NZ$2.60. The guy said they don't really sell much stuff to all-grain brewers, I can't imagine why.

Another thing to consider - thinking outside the box. I would definitely pay for a jar of slurry from a liquid yeast batch. I'd pay maybe up to half the price of the equivalent liquid pack. More often than not when I buy liquid yeast it's down to 50b cells anyway, so a jar of slurry is all the same to me if it's been treated well. Minimal cost to the HBS, cheaper yeast for the customer.
 
The best thing about my LHBS is the people. The owner and all the employees are great to talk with and and will share any knowledge they have but are always learning the same as everyone else. I think the store is very well stocked but i know location and volume based on population plays a big factor in that.

On thing that i really like is once a month on a fri evening anybody is invited to Friday night beer club. Have a beer you like and want to share, bring it, what is this off flavor, lets talk about it. If you have never made beer and dont know if you like home brew bring a bottle of your favorite off the shelf and we can get you hooked.

Its a great time to get together and talk shop and share beer.

You dont have to have everything, just be honest and fair. My LHBS carries white labs and whyeast and imperial, as well as several dry yeasts but i wanted an omega strain and when i asked they said they have something close but not the same, then told me where to get it.

PM me if you want to know more details.
 
I love stopping at my lhbs! I try to bring samples for them whenever possible because I value their input and knowledge as much as anything else. They are great people and they have a 3 tap kegerator that they put their homebrew in to share with everybody. I've brewed beers I never thought I would after tasting so of their batches and whenever I had questions they never hesitated to break out their recipe books and share what the did and used. This is extremely helpful to new brewers who don't understand what ingredients can do to their beer and all the different changes it make when used in different ways. I live in PA so I could probably get grain cheaper from more beer or some other online retailer but I don't mind paying the extra $ to support these amazing guys and lady!
 
My old LHBS would sell 50lb sacks of base malt (2-row, marris otter) at the bulk ~1/2 the per lb price, and keep it there for you on an account as part of their rotating stock.

The customer got the benefit of buying in bulk without having to store it or own their own mill, and the shop was guaranteed a repeat customer.
 
While we don't have many local brew stores in finland, I have to order practically everything online.

One thing I like is the ability to send a recipe or "shopping list" and the store will give me a message when it is ready to ship.
They can't carry everything, which is fine, I don't mind waiting a bit and getting it all in one go instead.

Bonus that my favourite place has been doing well is to sell precrushed bulk grain very cheaply and they are willing to adjust crush to your wishes.
 
I'll tell you what I really like about my LHBS - always fully stocked and the people are really helpful and friendly. I've been going there for years and I can't even think of a single occasion when the people weren't completely cool.

One thing I would like is an RO machine at the LHBS. I go to the grocery store to get RO water from their machine which isn't a big deal at all, but it'd be really convenient to have the machine at the LHBS.
 
What I like is that I can find the parts and pieces I need, usually in stock. Shanks, tailpieces, swivel nuts, tubing, faucets, etc. have all been things I wanted to buy locally.

My LBHS is about a 30-minute drive so I usually will call ahead to make sure they have in stock what I want or need. I can order online from Ritebrew or Northern Brewer and usually it's a 1-day delivery time, so if the LHBS has the same item in stock, I can get it today--and that's often worth something.

Having beginner classes is a reasonable thing to do--grow the market, and the more it's grown, the easier it is to stock a lot of different things. I doubt at this point I'd learn much from a class; I am brewing my 28th batch today (AG) and there's not a lot left to learn that could be taught in class format. The online resources are powerful (such as HBT, youtube, other places), so once one is into brewing, they can mostly fly on their own.

I think a LHBS can be a social nexus for local homebrewers. My LHBS owner is the organizer of our local homebrew club. He arranges meetings, topics, and so on. We have "throwdowns" whcih is our local competition every three months, so if one wants to brew a beer to compete, one can. But mostly we get together and try each others' beer. If you're not a sponsor of a local homebrew club, you should consider that.

I've often thought there's likely a demand for short classes on specific subjects--water, RO systems, maybe a class where people could try different malts (eating them to see how they present), a class on the different specialty malts, a hop day, discussion of bittering, creating clear beer with crashing or finings, going to AG, doing BIAB, doing traditional mash tun, sparging techniques--there's a ton of things that could be covered in 30 minutes followed by Q&A. Lots of these I already know, but who couldn't benefit from a short class in which they either confirm what they're doing or learning a tidbit or two?

And those could be done in an evening, very easily. If you're in an area with a lot of 2nd- and 3rd-shift workers, do stuff during the day so they can be part of it.
 
I love my lhbs. Its run by one guy whose the nicest guy ever. For a relatively small building he's got pretty much everything you could want from equipment to grains, hops, wine kits, whatever. His yeast selection is a little lacking but ever thing else is great.

So what I would look for in a new place is good staff, good selection, and decent prices. Probably in that order. I know i'm paying slightly more at my place but I don't mind.
 
The important things to me are great service. Stocking well especially the things that would be needed in an emergency. Knowledge to help with recipes, techniques, problems is important. Keeping prices at least close to what it can be bought for, and still stay profitable, is essential. If it costs a little more - no problem. If it is 25 - 50% more I would order online.

My LHBS offers classes, and other get togethers. I have never attended one though.
 
It's a tough to compete with online pricing, I truly get that! Our lhbs has facilitated may functions for clubs. We have our brew club meeting at the shop, another club does as well, they also started a wine club. That's a great way to support your brewer and in turn your local brewers are more inclined to support you.

They offer bulk grain pricing for large group brews, they also offer bulk grain pricing a few times a year to help them order the next larger size from the grain suppliers. That's a win win for everyone. They get to buy more cheaper and get some quick cash flow.

Equipment is tough, the big guys ss and blichmann set the pricing and at times a customer can get free shipping and tax free online. So while you need to offer some equipment it's a tough balancing act. I'd focus more on service and ingredients for inventory, I'm willing to pay about 10% more to support the local store. I think if you can make your pricing be competitive with online pricing including the shipping cost you should be ok.

Best of luck!
 
I've got two LHBS near me - One within a ~10 minute drive and one that's about 30 minutes away. I exclusively go to the further one. Here's why:

Things the far LHBS does right:
  • Large selection of bulk grain/hops
  • Friendly, knowledgeable staff
  • Offers help, doesn't attempt to hard sell equipment



The things the other LHBS did which drove me away:
  • Kept expired yeast on the shelf, claimed it was "still good" when asked
  • Doesn't allow customers to mill grain ("Creates too big of a mess")
  • Only one employee knew "beer stuff"
  • Chastised customer for attempting one gallon batches instead of buying 5 gallon equipment from them
  • Advertise large variety of hops, don't have any in stock

Ultimately, as a LHBS you're not going to be able to compete with the large online homebrew stores on the price of most bulk equipment, so you need to compete on service/availability. That doesn't mean stocking every grain/hop/yeast imaginable, but certainly stocking the popular ones and having availability for others.
 
I've got two LHBS near me - One within a ~10 minute drive and one that's about 30 minutes away. I exclusively go to the further one. Here's why:

Things the far LHBS does right:
  • Large selection of bulk grain/hops
  • Friendly, knowledgeable staff
  • Offers help, doesn't attempt to hard sell equipment



The things the other LHBS did which drove me away:
  • Kept expired yeast on the shelf, claimed it was "still good" when asked
  • Doesn't allow customers to mill grain ("Creates too big of a mess")
  • Only one employee knew "beer stuff"
  • Chastised customer for attempting one gallon batches instead of buying 5 gallon equipment from them
  • Advertise large variety of hops, don't have any in stock

Ultimately, as a LHBS you're not going to be able to compete with the large online homebrew stores on the price of most bulk equipment, so you need to compete on service/availability. That doesn't mean stocking every grain/hop/yeast imaginable, but certainly stocking the popular ones and having availability for others.
 
My LHBS is always super friendly and helpful. Main reason I go back! They also do 5# co2 exchanges for $15. The airgas down the road is $27 for an exchange. They have a loyalty program where it's very easy to rack up an extra $5 off. Also give a discount to AHA members.
 
I am in a very tiny town and our LHBS is a second job for the sole proprietor so they are really only open by appointment. They have no grain mill. They only sell dry yeast. The hop selection is OK but the hops don't turn over quickly so we are always unsure of their freshness. We have the blessing of a helpful and capable brew club so you can get almost anything at any time as a loaner.

I wish I had .. a shop with regular hours, a good staff, a basic selection of hops, yeast, grains with capacity to bring in special orders on a 3 to 4 day turn around, and a willingness to host classes and brew days
 
#1 prices need to be competitive with online. not saying they need to be cheaper, but they need to be very close. certain things are a commodity really.

#2 at least as far as ingredients, have everything. my first LHBS had 70 malts in stock the day they opened. I think over the first 2 years i tried about half of them. Every time i thought i'd never need one of them, seemed like i always did. if i have to order something online there's a good chance i'm going to order everything online to get the shipping deals.


#3 have good store hours. i think most of us work so at least thur/fri/sat you need evening hours. it probably doesn't matter if you're closed on mondays.

#4 have good home brew samples on tap so people know what they could do or need to do. don't let it get abused though.

#5 add white labs and omega yeast

that's all i've got.
 
A LHBS has always been positive experience for me in both places where I've lived. A couple of high points are:

Staff are excited about brewing and offer help when needed, or just get your grain crushed if you just need that done quickly

Don't have to have all the yeast and grain choices, just offer substitutions and have knowledgeable staff that also homebrews. My last hbs had more choices, but the prices were higher. Out here in PNW the hops are fresher and cheaper, but they don't necessarily carry the stuff that doesn't grow around here. If I really want a particular style, I will either substitute a hop or just buy that particular ingredient online, you will probably save money by not having everything in stock when it comes to perishables like hops.

Have kegging tubing, hose clamps, stuff like that you can make for the customer which is very convenient and they will pay extra and you will be able to pocket that profit margin...plus that stuff never goes bad.
 
1. Good selection of grains I can crush in store.
2. Yeast isn't old. (Neither are the hops and grains, but yeast is the main concern).
3. Sells the other basics: extract, bottle caps, Star San, etc.

I would sacrifice a fair amount of selection for freshness, assuming it is difficult to maintain both. I don't buy kits at my LHBS, but would worry what what's on the shelf is getting old (at some other local places, that is definitely the case).

If prices are 10% more than online, that's fine. Admittedly, I'm not doing huge purchases there.

I honestly don't care much about service. I don't want the checkout guy to be surly, but I personally haven't needed HB advice from anyone there. In fact, my LHBS is only half dedicated to brewing, and I've spoken with employees there who have never brewed before.
 
I don't mind a smaller selection of hops and grains, as long as the bases are covered and fresh and you can order within reasonable time.

Bits and parts are more important, especially if something stupid happens at brew time(broken hydrometers, leaky tubes etc)
 
passedpawn said:
Don't pick up more yeast than you can sell in a month. I'm done buying old yeast. LHBS gave me 2 for 1 old wyeast pouches and neither were good.
Click to expand...

I've bought a few of those recently. I always found that they needed a small (200mL) starter to wake up, and it could take 1-2 days, but then they were ready to roll.
 
My LHBS is an awesome place and I love it. It's a small store so I don't expect them to have everything, and I don't expect them to be as cheap as Amazon. The people are willing to share their knowledge without being arrogant.

But for me, the best part is that they also listen. I tell them I'm a cider maker and they pick my brain about yeasts and techniques. I feel like I've contributed something to the craft when I leave. I like that.

For your question, OP, be aware that there's more than beer and wine being fermented. I would love it if the LHBS had a deal with a local cider mill and could have a cider day in the fall, even if just one weekend a year. I'd also like to see bulk honey from local beekeepers for mead. I realize space and inventory costs may not allow that, but I can wish.

You have a tough nut to crack. Good luck with your business.

p.s. You should also put your location in your profile.
 
Friendly staff is paramount. If the staff sucks, I don't care what the shop sells or how good the prices are, I'll find another shop or go online.

Knowledgable staff is a bonus for me, but not mandatory. I tend to do research online and come in knowing exactly what I want. However, to attract new brewers I guess skilled staff would be super important. Lots of people probably wander in with half a clue. I guess I did the first time!

I will happily pay a small premium to a local store when buying gear, but the price difference compared to online (or to the other store in the neighborhood) has to be reasonable. Sometimes things cost 50-100% more in the LHBS. Even if I love your store, even if that's just how the math works out for you, I won't pay that kind of markup.

My preferred LHBS does CO2 cylinder exchanges, and their price is the same as going direct to the welding store--they buy the cylinders wholesale, and mark them up to be equivalent to the welding shop's retail price. It is a great convenience and it feels like a good value. (My other LHBS has cylinders too, at DOUBLE the cost of doing the swap yourself. Bananas.)

Stock phosphoric acid, not just lactic acid. :)

Lastly, here is something that I really really love in retail--when a store stocks good stuff and steers customers to making a WISE decision, not just the cheapest one.

For example, my LHBS stocked co2 manifolds. They were the cheaper variety with the red handles on the valves, not the nicer valves like you see on Keg Connection manifolds. Well, I bought one, and it leaked from one of those cheap rickety valves. They took it back... but then I bought a better one online, for less dough. The better version just wasn't an option at the LHBS.

If there is a dramatically superior choice in gear, only stock the superior choice, and educate your customers as to why you are doing that. Put up signs saying "this is the best _____ because _____." Advocate the good products wherever you can. When a trustworthy shop does this, it is hugely helpful. I work hard on research most of the time but even I can't always know exactly what to get.

I realize that removing choice from the consumer can be risky, and people have to shop to a price point... but at the least, don't sell junk, even if it's popular junk.

Good luck with your shop!
 
The thing that I would like from my LHBS is to be closer than a 1-1/2 hr drive. Oh the money I would spend there, instead of in the growing AB/Inbev monopoly.
Bob
 
One thing I would like is an RO machine at the LHBS. I go to the grocery store to get RO water from their machine which isn't a big deal at all, but it'd be really convenient to have the machine at the LHBS.[/QUOTE]

YES! Same here, I'd love one stop.
 
1. Somewhat competitive pricing.
2. Malt choices.
3. Hop choices.
4. Yeast choices.
5. When I need equipment, I want it to be available.
Basically, I want to be able to walk in with a recipe and walk out with the same thing, without feeling gouged.

I love my LHBS. Can't imagine living without it.
 
Good posts . I would add that carrying a selection of local ingredients is becoming popular and a good way of competing with the online stores that can carry everything and an inventory that is fresh.

I fully understand that my LHBS cannot carry everything and that it's nearly impossible for high rent brick and mortar shops to compete on price with online warehouse in a different part of the country. I like the personal service and advice. I guess it helps that it was founded by avid homebrewers 30 years ago.

When it comes to retail, it's hard to beat a warm salesperson who genuinely enjoys helping people
 
punch/stamp cards for a 50$ purchase after 10-12 50$ purchases. mailing/texting list with deals/promos. use the promos to keep your stock as fresh as possible, also in the promos ask if anyone has ingredients requests.

i appreciate freshness over variety. i like to see packaging dates. i know it sucks to have something that never sold and gets old, but it will be worse in the long run if you end up selling something way past its prime and results in a poor final product for your customer (mainly leaf hops, yeast, and i guess liquid extract?). that's why i prefer sticking to a more standard selection while making sure everyone feels that its easy to do custom orders through you.
 
When I've had a LHBS, I've used them for everything except the base grain I get via our club's group buy. But, I won't drive across the city, in what can be an hour of bad traffic, to go to a LHBS. Brew&Grow closed their store in the West Loop that was near me, and getting to their northside store is a PITA. The other LHBS in the city is on the southside, an equal distance and time from me. So, I order most of my ingredients online now and get them delivered to my door.
 
My LHBS is awesome, and there's not really anything more I'd ask of them. They carry a good amount of specialty grains, hop selection is solid, and they sell nearly all the hardware I need. I only order online if there's a really significant price difference, if I only need a couple ounces of some hops they don't normally stock, or if I need something a lot faster than they can get it. Oh, and they track your purchases, and send you a gift certificate for 10% of your last 6 purchases.

The biggest thing for me though, is the staff. The guys who run my LHBS are knowledgeable, welcoming, and frankly willing to put up with my blathering on. I've only been brewing for a couple of years, and they've helped me resolve more than a couple of screw ups I've made.
 
I buy probably 80-90% of my brewing supplies from my LBHS. Here's why:

  • The staff is incredibly friendly and has an encyclopedia knowledge of homebrewing.
  • They have a massively large database of recipes. If you cant find a recipe you like, they will help you build one.
  • Their prices are not that much more than online retailers. Even bulk grains is close to the same price after you figure in shipping and taxes (for those of us that live in a state that charges sales tax for online purchases). I would rather spend 10-15% more for instant gratification and the support of the staff in case something goes wrong.
  • The selection is good. My LHBS has two locations. If one of the locations is out of an item and the other location has it, they will bring the item over (might be the next day).
  • Last, they have an online store (which is awesome for such a small shop). I can order what I need and it will be ready for pick up from the location of my choice.

Another thing I like is it is within walking distance. There has been many times I have been walking the dog, stopped in for a beer, and just chatted with the owners & employees.
 
I don't have a LHBS and have lost my regional HBS.
You need to be stocked well enough to brew all styles.
If you list items online you need to clearly mark what's not in stock.

What Barley & Vine would do for me was, if I emailed what I wanted ahead of time, then they would acquire most of the items not in stock.
I'd like a listing of all items not in stock that the LHBS is capable of special ordering, including minimum order and time lag.
 
There are 4 stores that I use but I would not say any is my favorite. Each have their pluses and minuses. The closest one doubles as a growler shop and is connected to a liquor store so I can get brewing supplies and a growler at the same time but their hardware selection is limited. The next closest has plenty of brewing knowledge and every grain imaginable but I question their storage practices as that on more than one occasion I walked in with the guy unlocking the door and there were multiple open bags of leaf hops on the counter from the night before. The next closest has very little to offer to anyone that has brewed for any period of time but the owner is a retired gentleman and has opened the shop as a hobby. He has some great stories and I will go there to "visit" with him and TRY to find something to buy to help maintain his hobby. The last one is by far the most difficult to get to. They always have what I need whether it is ingredients or hardware. The down side other than the drive is that they know more than me and NEVER let me forget that. If I have a question about equipment or technique, they make me feel like an idiot because I'm not 100% sure what I need or need to do.

So, if you are going to modify your business model, open in my back yard stock an equal amount of hardware and ingredients make it pleasant to "visit" and don't flaunt you knowledge but be willing to teach.
 
ballapcb said:
Thanks jratcliff
Much of the feedback I get regards the indifferent or arrogant service received, so this really resonates. For what it's worth, I'm attempting to break the trend and be equally as helpful to the guy making an extract Gose and all grain Bud Light (both of which happened this week).
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong, It's not every employee, just a few. But those few have ruined the experience enough times that I hardly ever go anymore. They act like they don't want me there, so I take the hint and don't come back.

It's otherwise a pretty good LHBS... nice selection of malts and hops, decent turnover of fresh ingredients, clean, well lit, pleasant atmosphere (when not being pissed on my aforementioned bad apples), decent amount of equipment, etc. only about 20 minutes or so away... The good employees are friendly and helpful... So I *want* to like it...

Only other negative I can think of is no bulk pricing for sacks of malt. I can get 50lbs delivered to my door from Morebeer cheaper than picking up a whole sack there. So that's what I do. Their per lb price of grains and per oz price for hops are comparable to online price + shipping.. slightly higher but not outrageous... I'd do more last minute supply runs if I knew I wouldn't get any of the a-hole employees.
 
Everyone, thanks for the input and great thread. It's good to hear more people are having positive experiences at the LHBS than negative, and I can report - in my case at least - your priorities, namely freshness and friendly, knowledgeable staff, are also massively important to me and what I'm working to do for my customers.
I'd also like to thank everyone for throwing some great ideas my way. I'd love to continue hearing what you have to say.
 

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