lets talk beer

[tonyandkory]

ok I think I posted this in the wrong place originally so here goes again...

Over the weekend I brewed up a Witbier kit and after watching the beer brew on Saturday I thought that I would like to try a non kit brew.


I just made this recipe up cause I really have no idea.


I was thinking of making a 5 gallon Braggot and wanted your opinion on ingredients and also advice on procedure.

also how this would turn out and what kind of beer it would make


1. Steep the grains 30 min 150'


2. boil - add liquid malt


3. boil - add shinook hops 30 min


4. boil - add spices 15 min


5. boil - add cascade hops / dry malt 10 min


6. cool - to 80*


7. add yeast and ferment to 1.020



8. rack to secondary and add 1 pound honey.


9. re-ferment to dry



10. rack ... add priming sugar and bottle.





Here is what I was thinking of using.






I have one pound of blackberry honey.

1923 Briess Crystal 20L - Grains Milled 3oz

1907A Flaked Wheat - 1lb

1793A Briess Pilsen Dry Malt Extract 1 Lb.

2020A Chinook Hop Pellets - Alpha Acid = 11.4% - (1/2)oz

2015A Cascade Hop Pellets - Alpha Acid = 7.5% - 1 Oz.

1249 Briess Bavarian Wheat Canister 3.3 Lb.

73463 Forbidden Fruit 3463 - Wyeast Activator

2404 Brewer's Garden Coriander Seed 1 tsp

2405 Brewer's Garden Sweet Orange Peel 1 Oz.


Let me know what you think.
Thanks

Tony


P.S. this will be my first non kit beer
I don't have fancy beer equipments ... 10 gallon pot and carboys plus racking equip as far as beer goes.

 

[SMc0724]

I assume you are doing boil in a bag to steep the grains?

Have you done any research on designing a brew. Those extract quantities look really small. And the wheat extract is quite a bit larger than the malt extract. Usually the max is around 50-50. But, I'm not a big wheat beer fan, so check out Palmer, below.

I strongly recommend checking out Palmer's free online book at:
http://www.howtobrew.com/

Chapter 19 is about designing styles, and there are some recipes there. There are also recipes online here at HBT.

There are also some free resources on line for designing a brew, like at beertools.com. Or just Google, how to design a beer recipe.

The procedure looks good. I do not brew with spices. I am not a Wyeast fan, but a lot of people love it. The dry yeast from Safale is very good.

Enjoy!

 

[ICWiener]

If you're new to brewing or at least non-kit brewing I would recommend starting out with something simple. Not to be discouraging or anything, but the more complicated the recipe, the tougher it is to nail down. A good braggot is a thing a of beauty, but a bad one can be just awful.

When I was a noob, I botched a lot of beers by trying to go all gung-ho too early on. Then I learned to brew a decent dry Irish stout and a decent American pale ple without relying on kits. Only after I started consistenly making those simple beers well did my complex attempts start coming through.

Just my two cents. If you got the itch and you're dead set on it, you make the best damn braggot you can!

 

[ludomonster]

Adding only 1lb honey to the beer would just make it a honey beer. You don't seem to have a lot of fermentables. For a lot of honey wheat beers, people use about 1 lb honey. It can give the beer a subtle honey character, but the attributes of the beer itself dominate. Also, the liquid malt extract may darken considerably during the boil. This may take the beer out of the desired color range.

 

[duboman]

I agree with being a little too feet first. If you want to try something other than a kit than I suggest visiting the recipe wiki and pick something out you like.

There is really nothing wrong with kits as they are all proven and the majority of them
Make great beer.

By looking through actual proven recipes though you can begin learning about how they are created and balanced.

 

[tre9er]

Find an extract recipe in the section here. Usually it involves just extract, hops, and yeast. Make that first and make sure it turns out well, find any flaws in your process, then consider if you want to step up to something more complex.

 

[tonyandkory]

OK point taken

really the post was more not about if I should do this or not but seeing what was good or bad about some thing that I had come up with after reading other recipes.

trying to finger things out soooooo if you were given this as a starting point what would you do or change? and if any one had any idea what of comparable beer this may make.

again for my understanding


thanks a bunch for the advice already.

 

[duboman]

OK point taken

really the post was more not about if I should do this or not but seeing what was good or bad about some thing that I had come up with after reading other recipes.

trying to finger things out soooooo if you were given this as a starting point what would you do or change? and if any one had any idea what of comparable beer this may make.

again for my understanding

thanks a bunch for the advice already.

Without Trying to be an A$$ hat, it looks like a recipe put together by someone who has no idea how to construct a recipe. There is not enough extract and the ingredients do not point to any certain style of beer in particular. It looks like someone who decided " hey, I like all these things so lets put them in a beer and call it a beer"

Follow our advice and look at proven recipes that work and learn about the ingredients you find prominent in specific styles of beer and the percentages I each used, it's a great starting point. Creating recipes for Good beer is not as easy as one thinks it is. You might also want to consider doing a SMaSH, you can search that as well

 

[tre9er]

OK point taken

really the post was more not about if I should do this or not but seeing what was good or bad about some thing that I had come up with after reading other recipes.

trying to finger things out soooooo if you were given this as a starting point what would you do or change? and if any one had any idea what of comparable beer this may make.

again for my understanding


thanks a bunch for the advice already.

Another reason to peruse the recipe DB is to see clones of beers you like and what's in them. That starts to paint a picture of what you like and don't, what it takes to make XYZ, etc.

 

[SMc0724]

I believe I did give some specific advice, but here is more to the point:

1. EDIT: Do not brew what you recommended originally if you want a braggot. Sorry to be so blunt, but it is lacking. Carefully consider if this beer is in your "strike" zone. As many have already said, this is a complicated beer for any one, and for someone who has one beer brewed, it may be too much.
2. Be more specific with your style choices. Except for the fact that a Braggot style includes mead, it seems wide open to me in terms of ABV, attenuation, color, OG, SG, IBU's, etc. Looks like your trying for a wheat Braggot. Maybe a Magic Hat "Raggo" clone? It is really important that you be more specific about want to do with this beer?
3. Buy a bag to steep the grains.
4. Read Palmer's book.
5. Look at Palmer's recommendation: a 60-40 wheat-barley mix for a Witbeer extract. But what do you want (reference to #2, above)? To reach 60-40 increase malt extract to somewhere around 2.5 pounds and increase your wheat extract to around 3.5 pounds. But, you do need to decide on color before making an extract purchase.
6. I believe the honey will need to be added to the primary, but I have no idea about that, plus.... I have no idea how much honey to put in a Mead, let alone a Braggot. I recommend you search these out.
7. The quantity of the extract may have to be increased or decreased to meet the ABV you desire. Again, back to style, it's in your court.
8. Your yeast choice should work, seems random, but OK. Magic Hat uses an English Ale yeast, that would be Safale S-04.
9. Again, hops should work, but (again) seems random. Need to decide what flavor and IBU's you want (again back to #2).
10. In the future, the work that we've done here should be done by you, not us. I recommend following the advice given here.

Good luck.

 

[chickypad]

If you dump the honey and up the extract as suggested you're not that far off a decent witbier recipe. I would get rid of the crystal in that case and I'm not sure you want American C hops in that, maybe choose a noble hop and not too much - just a single bittering addition.
One thing, most wheat extracts are already part wheat malt and part barley - like 60/40 or 50/50 so you may be able to just use all wheat extract depending what ratio you're aiming for.

 

[jonmohno]

Pfttt,all the negative responses. This sounds like a decent American Wheat Ale. Im not shure what the forbidden fruit is though. Your not brewing a braggot unless your over 30% I think it is or 50% honey? I did 30% honey for a honey ale,it was still beer with just the maximum amount of noticable honey I wanted. I really enjoy that beer as its own unique style,it really inspires me to try a good mead though although Im not big into high abv.
I say add more honey but add it late,if you want otherwise it will be unnoticed. You can also bottle prime with it, just make shure you use the right amout for your volume and it could take a bit longer than regular priming sugar for carbing.
I would do some 60 hops though for bittering,not understanding the 30 and 15 although I think that would work and I would see how it goes really.The chinnooks could give it a nice spice quality to it,you just have to be carefull with those hops sometimes they can bitter boldly. So 30 min may work, I wouldnt change anything-just go for it,its yours.

 

[SMc0724]

Delete

 

[SMc0724]

Jonmoho. Pfft. M-E-H. So negative!

So I went to BeerTools and ran the numbers. I withdraw my statement that it would be bad. But its a decent wheat not a braggott.

 

[tonyandkory]

First off thank you for all your help! especially SMc john and chick who were more helpful than deterrent.

I am going for a wheat/witbier or something closet to it.

I was under the impression any "beer" with honey was braggott but I stand corrected

Here is what I think I have decided to change. (not worrying about color)

Hops -- I think I will change out the chinook for saaz and use the cascade as the bittering.

yeast -- the forbidden fruit is as I was told a yeast that imparts a fruity after tone to the finishing end of the beer and as I am using orange peel I thought it would go well.
"For production of wits to classic grand cru. Phenolic profile with subdued fruitiness. Well balanced estery profile."

DME -- up this to two pounds

Crystal -- I think I am going to keep the Crystal because of the caramel notes it imparts.

Temp -- I will pitch yeast starter at 70* (don't have controllable temp area to brew in)

Honey -- the honey pitched at the end of the first ferment is so the primary does not blow off all the honey flavor

Time -- up steep time






new recipe


1. Steep the grains 45 min 150'
Briess Crystal 20L - Grains Milled 3oz
Flaked Wheat - 1.5lb


2. boil - add liquid malt
Briess Bavarian Wheat Canister 3.3 Lb


3. boil - add bittering hops 30 min
Cascade Hop Pellets - Alpha Acid = 7.5% - 1 Oz.
One of the American three “C” hops with a distinct citrus/grapefruit aroma

4. boil - add spices 15 min
Coriander Seed 1 tsp
Sweet Orange Peel 1 Oz.

5. boil - add hops 10 min / DME
Saaz Czech Hop Pellets - Alpha Acid = 2.8% - 1 Oz
Briess Pilsen Dry Malt Extract 2 Lb.

6. cool - to 70*


7. add yeast and ferment to 1.020
Forbidden Fruit 3463 - Wyeast
((yeast starter with nutrient and DME))


8. rack to secondary and add honey.
Black berry honey 1 lb


9. re-ferment to dry



10. rack ... add priming sugar and bottle.



1923 Briess Crystal 20L - Grains Milled 3oz

1907A Flaked Wheat - 1.5lb

1793A Briess Pilsen Dry Malt Extract 2 Lb.

2080A Saaz Czech Hop Pellets - Alpha Acid = 2.8% - 1 Oz

2015A Cascade Hop Pellets - Alpha Acid = 7.5% - 1 Oz.

1249 Briess Bavarian Wheat Canister 3.3 Lb.

73463 Forbidden Fruit 3463 - Wyeast Activator

2404 Brewer's Garden Coriander Seed 1 tsp

2405 Brewer's Garden Sweet Orange Peel 1 Oz.



This should put me (after the honey 1.052 SG) or 7% abv ... the color I think will be a little darker but and higher abv but I am ok with that.


I put this into that beer calculator you were talking about and it came up to about 95% on it. not sure what that means yet but I suspect an A is a good score lol

that is if I did it correctly ((( posted below )))



TK Wit
August 10, 2012
Category Belgian and French Ale
Subcategory Witbier
Recipe Type Partial Mash
Batch Size 5 gal
Volume Boiled 6 gal
Mash Efficiency 72 %
Total Grain/Extract 7.00 lbs
Total Hops 1.5 oz
Calories (12 fl. oz.) 144.3
Cost to Brew $32.00 (USD)
Cost per Bottle (12 fl. oz.)$0.60 (USD)



3.3 lbs White Wheat Malt; Briess info
.2 lbs Caramel Malt 20L; Briess info
2 lbs Dry Extra Light; Muntons info
1.5 lbs Wheat Flaked info
1 oz Saaz (Pellets, 2.8 %AA) boiled 10 min. info
.5 oz Cascade (Pellets, 7.5 %AA) boiled 30 min. info
.5 oz. Corriander seeds (not included in calculations)
1 oz. Orange Peel (not included in calculations)
Yeast : WYeast 3463 Forbidden Fruit™ info


Predicted Witbier Compliance
Original Gravity 1.044 1.044 - 1.052 98 %
Terminal Gravity 1.009 1.008 - 1.012 100 %
Color 4.45 °SRM 2.00 - 4.00 °SRM 78 %
Bitterness 13.3 IBU 10.00 - 20.00 IBU 100 %
Alcohol (%volume)4.6 % 4.50 - 5.50 % 100 %
95 % overall

Apparent Real
Original Extract 10.91 °Plato 10.91 °Plato
Attenuation 79.2 % 64.3 %
Extract 2.27 °Plato 3.89 °Plato

% Weight % Volume
Alcohol 3.6 % 4.6 %

 

[SMc0724]

Your welcome, glad to help. Looks much better thought through. Enjoy.

 

[tonyandkory]

lets keep our fingers crossed lol ...
I have plenty of experience brewing mostly wine and mead though (I know beer is a different animal)
just a few beers so needed a push in the right direction..

thx again

 

[SMc0724]

One of the reasons I enjoy responding is that I learn so much. It's very cool that you are expanding your brew repertoire. I've never drank or made a mead, but I'm very interested now. I learned something about meads as I was looking into this issue. I'm am even more interested in Braggots now as well. So I will be keeping my eyes open. After your wheat beer brew, you may be ready for the Braggot.

 

[chickypad]

Let us know how it turns out. A lot of the time recipe advice is based on personal experience and tastes, or about how to hit a certain style. One of the best things about this hobby, though, is the experimentation!