Let's talk about enzymes

[JMath]

This forum is in desperate need of a sticky on enzymes for all-grain mashing. I noticed this as I am preparing my first AG brew. You guys have posted a lot of great info in different places.

Let me see if I can summarize the usage of different enzymes from what I've gathered around the forum and you can chime in with corrections and additions, and maybe we can get a formal sticky out of it. Here goes.

For maximum efficiency you want to do two mash rests at different temperatures. It seems the general consensus is to first hit ~170 °F with a thermostable alpha amylase to gelatinize the starches. Some home brewers actually get away with using an unmalted millet base by using this step. Also, some brewers do this step with malted grains but no enzyme. However it is not 100% required if you're using malted grains and aren't concerned with efficiency.

Thermostable amylase on the market:
Termamyl
Others?

The second step, needed to convert starches to sugars, is to hit 140-150 °F with another set of enzymes (this is where the enzymes get a bit confusing for me).

I see two main enzymes available for this step:
AMG-300L, which is an exo-alpha amylase
Diatase, which contains both alpha-amylase and beta-amylase

I'm not sure of the advantages and disadvantages of each, but I know there is concern about the timing of this, if rested for too long the wort will become too fermentable and finish thin.

I'm sure there is incorrect information in the above, please comment.

 

[glutarded-chris]

Looks like a good summary to me! My practice has been to do the gelatinization step at 170F without enzymes and then drop to 140F to 150F with diatase enzyme. Mine always finish low but with an OG of 1.050 to 1.050, the final beers don't register as thin, just high in alcohol (~6 ABV).

I have some Termamyl on order and will try that with the high temperature rest to see how that works.

 

[glutarded-chris]

So I did a not so controlled test of the Termamyl on this last batch. I split the grain bill as I normally do but did not concern myself with splitting each grain addition exactly evenly. I just put it all together, milled it together and then split it in two equal weight mash sections. On one of the mash batches I added 0.16 oz Termamyl (by weight) to 7 lb grain at the beginning with the strike water. For both mash batches I added the diatase after cooling following the gelatinization rest as I do normally.

The difference was noticeable. The Termamyl batch was a few points higher gravity throughout the latter half of the long final rest and the liquid that separates on top was visibly clearer. The Termamyl batch finished 4 gravity points higher!

Question: For those that are using Termamyl for gluten free malted grain, how much are you typically adding per pound of grain? The directions on the container were based on gallon of product. I did some simple ratios and ended up using about double the recommended amount for the mash batch if I did the calculations correctly. Not because I intended to use double the amount, my first small pour just ended up there!

 

[Legume]

I have been using 2 Tbsp of Termamyl in a mash, regardless of the quantity of grain in the mash(for non-malted grain).

My grain bills tend to be between 12 and 16 lbs, but i assume that at 2 Tbsp there is enough extra Termamyl there to handle any reasonable grain bill for a 5 gal batch of beer.

I have never tried to optimise the quantity of Termamyl I use, I am probably using more than nessassarry...but 2 Tbsp has been working so I have stuck with it.

 

[glutarded-chris]

Thanks Legume! That is helpful.
I was surprised that the guidance on the package was based on gallons and not weight of grain or something. Simple volume ratio with my typical grain bill put it at about 0.16 oz for 14 lb of grain. I didn't have a feel for how much that was so I weighed it on my small scale. I was shooting for 0.08 to put in haft the grain bill but the first little pour went to 0.16 oz ... really small amount. Made me question if I was doing the math right. It just looked like it was not enough.
It had a noticeable affect so I figured it was probably in the ballpark. Unmalted grain probably needs a little more than malted grain but not sure how much more. Looks like pound for pound you are using about 3 times what I threw in this first attempt. Gives me a range. I will use 2 teaspoons to 2 tablespoons as a range to work with. I have not heard anyone say going on the high side on enzymes has negative consequences. At such a small amounts I can't imagine it has any noticeable flavor impact. I monitor the gravity anyway during the mash so I pretty much know when to extract. A little more enzyme action just insures it gets there!

 

[skleice]

I recall reading somebody saying that they believed too much enzyme was drying out their beer too much. Sorry, I can't find the source...but it's just one person's guess anyway.

 

[Legume]

Skleice,

It is easy to dry out a beer with excessive beta amylase activity (like AMG 300).

Termamyl, is an alpha amylase; it cuts long starches into shorter dextrines but produces very little fermentable sugar. Over use of Termamyl will not dry out your beer, it will just shorten the time you need to mash to get your starches converted to dextrines.

 

[JMath]

I haven't purchased Termamyl yet, I just went with AMG-300L for my first AG batch. Last month glutenfreehomebrewing mentioned that they might be getting some new enzymes that were previously unavailable for home use, and they were conducting more enzyme tests. I think I'll wait to see how that plays out before buying anything else.

https://twitter.com/GFHomeBrewing/status/952666820380565504

 

[skleice]

They posted this on their FB yesterday:

"First test working with possible new enzymes had higher conversion at 90 min mash than the AMG-300L had with a 120 min mash. Very encouraging start. Moving onto another test batch with a different grain bill and will compare the two enzymes with 120 min mash times for each. Hope to have similar...or better results!"

 

[xflibble]

What sort of efficiency are people getting with enzymes? I googled a bit but couldn't turn anything up...

 

[glutarded-chris]

I brewed a batch today with Termamyl at the beginning and WOW, what a difference. 16 pound grain bill with two tablespoons of Termamyl in for the gelatinization rest. Then down to 150F for the final rest with Diatase. Basically the same process I normally do except the Termamyl in at the beginning. I have been getting about 18 ppg with just the Diatase, and with the Termamyl added this time I got 23 ppg! The grain I used this batch was fresher than the previous few batches, but I think the big difference was the Termamy. Normally the mash gets to 1.050 or so close to two hours on the second rest, and this one after 90 minutes of the second rest it was already at 1.065.

 

[JMath]

That's a great positive result. I actually ordered some Termamyl last night because I needed some other things from the same store. If you recall, I only used AMG-300L in my first batch, and I ended up with poor efficiency. But some of that was likely due to my poor crush size.

Next batch I will use the Termamyl along with a smaller crush size, hopefully gaining much efficiency.

I have a feeling glutenfreehomebrewing's enzyme research will result in a Termamyl recommendation, unless they've gotten their hands on one of the enzymes only available commercially.

 

[DRV]

Hey Chris, just to be sure are you using Termamyl in conjunction with EC Kraus Diatase?

 

[glutarded-chris]

Yes. I put the Termamyl in at the beginning for the rest at ~170F and then EC Diatase after bringing the temp down to ~150F.
Difference was dramatic.
I am always worried about proper mixing of the enzymes so I try to work the process so that I am able to add the enzymes to a quart or so before mixing. I am not sure if I am being overly cautioucious. I am interested to know if Legume just brings the mash to temp, adds the enzymes and then stirs. Always looking to remove unnecessary steps!!!

 

[Legume]

Chris,

I heat my water to 200 F
Add 12 -16 lbs of grain and stir (drops the temp to about 180F)
Then I add 2 Tbsp of Termamyl and stir again

My lower temp rest is similar, the 15 ml of SEBamyl L is added directly to the 150 F mash and stired.

Made a porter yesterday and way overshot my target gravity.
I was going for 1.066 but ended up at 1.075!
Probably the biggest beer i have made, and it was a mistake...ha ha
The only diffrence was that my first rest was closer to 190 than 180.

 

[BBBF]

Chris,

I heat my water to 200 F
Add 12 -16 lbs of grain and stir (drops the temp to about 180F)
Then I add 2 Tbsp of Termamyl and stir again

My lower temp rest is similar, the 15 ml of SEBamyl L is added directly to the 150 F mash and stired.

How fine are you milling? After getting horrible extraction off some millet malt (age questionable as it was given to me), I brought the temp up to 205, then brought it down to 150 and added SEBamyl. I only got about 50% extraction.

 

[glutarded-chris]

When you say "50% extraction" are you referring to efficiency or extraction volume?
Curious what your grain weight, extraction volume and extraction gravity is.

 

[Legume]

BBBF,

I run the grains through a corona mill twice...dont know the gap, but there is a lot of flour.

The Termamyl makes a big diffrence in efficency.

I doubt the age of your malt is the issue...I use mostly non-malted grains.

 

[DRV]

Currently my process is to bring the mash temp up to 180f for 30 minutes then drop it to high 150's and add EC Kraus Diatase.

Legume, have you found a benefit to bringing your grain up to 200f and have you used Diatase ever?

 

[skleice]

Cheapest source for these enzymes?

 

[BBBF]

When you say "50% extraction" are you referring to efficiency or extraction volume?
Curious what your grain weight, extraction volume and extraction gravity is.

Sorry. I meant efficiency.

BBBF,

I run the grains through a corona mill twice...dont know the gap, but there is a lot of flour.

The Termamyl makes a big diffrence in efficency.

I doubt the age of your malt is the issue...I use mostly non-malted grains.

I was using a new MM2 on the millet before I cross contaminate it. New mill + new grain, in hindsight, I could definitely have gone finer. Eventually, I'll be forced back to the corona mill for GF grain.

I've had good luck with just the SEBamyl on flaked corn and bananas.

 

[KeinGluten]

How are you calculating efficiency? Barley brewers compare the amount of sugar they extract with maximum potential extract numbers that are published by the maltsters for each individual malt. However, I haven't seen any such numbers published for millet, so I never figured out a way to calculate an efficiency number. I decided it didn't really matter, so I just use point-gallons per pound (actually called, somewhat confusingly imo, ppg, or points per pound per gallon). All it's measuring is how many gravity points in what volume you get per some weight of grain. Formula: ppg = (OG-1)*1000*V / M. Where OG is original gravity, V is volume into the fermenter, in gallons, and M is weight in pounds of grain used.

An example calculation from a brown ale I made (OG was 1.046):
(46 points)*(5.5 gal)/(9.75 lbs) = 26 ppg

edit: sorry I realized this is pretty

 

[Legume]

DRV

The grains dont really get mashed ay 200F.

I heat 4 gal of water to 200F, add 13 ish lbs of room temperature grains; and the mash temperature settles around 180F.
I then insulate my pot and hold it around 180F for 90 minutes.

I have never used diatase, but have seen many reports of it working reasonably well.

 

[DRV]

Thanks for the clarification Legume. Is it fair to say that in comparison to native beta and alpha amylase 3rd party enzymes can handle higher temperature ranges before denaturing.

So far this is what I could find about the gelatinization temperature ranges for the grains we may be using:

Maize: 158-167f
Rice: 154-167f
Potato:132-156f
Millet:167-185f
Buckwheat:158-176f
Sorghum:158-167f

 

[JMath]

Does anyone know if we should be storing our bottles of enzymes in the fridge?

 

[DRV]

I checked the instructions that came with Diatase and they make no mention. Haven't had any issue with them so far and they stay at room temperature.

 

[glutarded-chris]

I think the bottle says best if refrigerated. I have not been refrigerating mine.

 

[Legume]

Yes, refrigerate them to extend shelflife.

 

[JMath]

I looked on the datasheet for Termamyl, it says:
"The product gives optimal performance if stored at 0–10 °C/32–50 °F and used
prior to the best-before date. If stored at max. 25 °C/77 °F, the product should
be used within 3 months after delivery."

I imagine all enzymes have a similar requirement, considering how temperature sensitive they are on the high end.

 

[JMath]

GFHB just posted their enzyme update!

Until now, GFHBers have not have not had access to enzymes specifically made for brewing gluten free beers. That changes this month when we start carrying new enzymes that were previously only offered to breweries. We conducted a series of test batches using heat stable SEBAmyl BAL 100 or Termamyl in conjunction with SEBAmyl L and have enjoyed consistently higher conversion and higher fermentable sugars. These enzymes can be used together in a single infusion mash at the temperature of 163.4F which we have recommended for several years. However, the potential of these enzymes are unleashed when used in a step mash. SEBAmyl BAL 100 or Termamyl enzymes work at temperatures of 155-165F to convert starch into chains that the SEBAmyl L enzyme can work at temperatures of 140-150F to convert those chains into fermentable sugars. By using the enzymes separately at two different temperatures, the alpha and beta amylase enzymes work in their optimal environments. The enzymes are currently being made and should ship out to use with the next couple weeks!

 

[skleice]

New enzymes are in stock (with usage recommendations)

https://www.glutenfreehomebrewing.org/BLOG/86/New-Enzymes-and-Updated-Tutorials.php

 

[JMath]

I'm glad to see their temperature recommendations. The times are a little disappointing though (2 hours for each rest recommended). I wonder why they ended up with such a long time for the high temperature rest, since most of us seem to get away with 15-30 minutes.