Lets Do This - 20 Gallon Concord 3 Vessel HERMS

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Yea i emailed them, although hesitantly...its been nearly 2 weeks and they havent sent me a bill yet so i was hoping maybe they forgot lolol..but regardless it still needs to get inspected so i want it to be right.
 
It lives!

2015-09-23%2023.27.09.jpg


Although i kept hearing a big click every time it cycled(i set a long duty cycle of like 10S)..which i assume is the contactors slamming shut and that shouldnt be happening no? They should be staying open and the SSR's are whats firing power through them...investigation needed.
 
Well figured it out i made an assumption that was wrong at the time..anyways thats fixed.

Only thing is for some reason my small 2 channel relay board isnt turning either relay on when i switch it on via the interface? Not sure whats going on ill have to try other RPI pins next time and do some more debug, i doubt its broken ive used my BrewPi one for hundreds if not thousands of on off cycles for fermenting..

That said, no more work on it for a bit, i fly out to GABF tomorrow with wife and baby...you know..adult priorities and such. :mug::tank:

Anyone else going to be at the Members only session?

Oh and one other thing, sometimes when i turn my contactors on(either the main one, or HLT/BK from other switch) there is a weird low level hum? If i turn them off and back on it goes away?
 
Welp, its alive..sort of? What happens when a SSR gets stuck on due to failure? Does the LED light typically come on??

One of my relays seems to always be powered now, as soon as i turn the switch the power LED comes on which SHOULD only be happening if there is black hot power coming through the Contactor which comes from the SSR. The LED on the SSR is never coming on.

Im a bit worried its hosed somehow already and ill have to take a ton of crap apart to get at it...next time i screw them on from the outside in, instead of the inside out..so i can get a screwdriver at it and pop it out easily.

If it is dead, can you guys recommend a good quality 40A SSR that isnt Fotek? I may just replace them both...also are all the 40A SSR's going to be mounting hole compatible?

I'd hate to have to tap more holes into my heat sink if i went with another brand...

I tried my BK side and its heating the water up as i type. I forgot where i read the expected speed but doing 18 Gallons its heating at more or less exactly 2F per minute? Seem reasonable?
*EDIT* Just did a calculation that ajdelange posted and it says i should be 57 seconds for 1C, so seems like its pretty much dead on if im getting 2F per minute.
 
When an SSR fails the LED may or may not illuminate. They have the same hole pattern. The only way to check its failure is to assess the input and output with a meter. You could have a leakage current triggering it. Removing an input terminal (even better - shorting it) temporarily can also confirm. Make sure you have a load on the output - an element in water is good.

Dude, not for nothing, but it seems you are iteratively approaching a working panel. Iterations are good for testing new subcomponents, but not live electrical panels. The panel should work the first time it was powered because the schematic is sound and the wiring is quality and the connections matche the schematic identically.

This leads me to believe you are at risk of something dangerous and think you should really double check everything before powering it again.

I also think you were warned about jamming too much stuff in a small box. Makes debug/resolution a nightmare.

Not trying to be a dick here - just keep you safe!

-BD
 
I am sure of the schematic and build, i know that i tested it a few days ago and the HLT light seemed to work as i expected. The relay board only didn't work because i forgot to wire it to the RPI's 5V after i took the RPI out to put Elsinore on it. I do check and double check all of the high voltage connections to make sure they are secure and in place.

Its more iterative than i'd like as well, but i only have an hour or two each night after baby goes to sleep and before i must sleep. So I usually post here even with the smallest issues because I don't have time that night to debug them myself, more so I can remember what I was doing last than anything ;)

Other than the small mistake i made wiring the contactors everything seems to be in functioning order...

I do agree about the panel size though...it does make it a pain in the ass. Im hesitant to start over though when im so close ;) We'll see how big of a PITA getting this relay out and back in is and go from there i suppose.
 
Do you have any load connected to the SSR in question? I know that when I first plugged my controller in without the elements plugged in, the current leakage made my element lights light and appear to be on. I temporary wired a light to the SSR and it worked fine.
 
RocketBrewer said:
Do you have any load connected to the SSR in question? I know that when I first plugged my controller in without the elements plugged in, the current leakage made my element lights light and appear to be on. I temporary wired a light to the SSR and it worked fine.
Click to expand...

I didnt when i was first testing, but did last night and it didnt seem to change anything but ill try some things tonight.

If i turn everything off, unplug the box from the wall and check across the the 120V input and output for continuity it should not beep right? If its a failed SSR latched closed as they seem to do then it will beep?
 
Welp im dumb, not sure what i was smoking last night but the SSR and wiring appears to work perfectly and be correct.

It was another thread here on HBT that made me realize that I have 120V LED's for my element power. When i was looking at the schematic i made the improper assumption i could use 120V LED's as long as it was being powered by the hot line controlled by the SSR. Until i read the other thread i didnt even think about it creating a circuit through the socket to get its 120V from the other hot line..which is why the light turns on and stays on as soon as i throw the switch no matter what the SSR is doing.

Ordered a few 240V lights that should hopefully be here early next week, its not an issue that affects safety or performance at all so i can probably still brew this weekend. If anything it is "overly" safe because the LED will always be on if that contactor is open even if there's no power going through the SSR. Should be an easy swap out when they come.

I knew my wiring was sound, ive checked and double checked it many times so feels good that its working as i expected.

Tonight i hope to do a full mock run with water...transferring to mash tun, using herms coil to maintain, sparging, then to a boil...
 
Who's an idiot?

This guys an idiot.

You know what would have been a good idea to test over the last weeks of building this thing?
That i can actually plug two locking plugs in at the same time...turns out i cant because they are too close..

Luckily the solution is pretty simple, right now its 220V-220V-2x120V along the bottom.
So i will just make it 220V-2x120V-220V which should give plenty of space.
 
LOL. Almost happened to me. I am making my control panel right now.
My build is very close to yours with three 20g concord pots as well.
 
FuzzeWuzze said:
Who's an idiot?

This guys an idiot.

You know what would have been a good idea to test over the last weeks of building this thing?
That i can actually plug two locking plugs in at the same time...turns out i cant because they are too close..

Luckily the solution is pretty simple, right now its 220V-220V-2x120V along the bottom.
So i will just make it 220V-2x120V-220V which should give plenty of space.
Click to expand...

It's hard to not overlook small details when doing a build like this.

How will you remedy this with holes already drilled in the panel?
 
I made a similar move... installed my sight glass on my pot. Installed the eyelet to hold the tube so high that the :(lid would no longer drop fully into the pot - hit the nut on the inside. Still haven't come up with a workaround for that one.
 
brrman said:
I made a similar move... installed my sight glass on my pot. Installed the eyelet to hold the tube so high that the :(lid would no longer drop fully into the pot - hit the nut on the inside. Still haven't come up with a workaround for that one.
Click to expand...

Hammer to dent the lid from underneath to make room for the nut.
 
brrman said:
I made a similar move... installed my sight glass on my pot. Installed the eyelet to hold the tube so high that the :(lid would no longer drop fully into the pot - hit the nut on the inside. Still haven't come up with a workaround for that one.
Click to expand...

Maybe you could cut a slot in the lid so the nut fits in the slot nice and tight........
 
crane said:
It's hard to not overlook small details when doing a build like this.

How will you remedy this with holes already drilled in the panel?
Click to expand...

All 3 sockets are one giant rectangular hole on the bottom, the only difference on what socket goes where is where i drilled holes and tap'd them to bolt the socket into. So in theory i should be able to just swap the big face plate 120V outlet into the middle and one of the 220's outwards, ill just need to drill new holes for the bolts holding them in place..but the outlet covers will cover all the extra messy holes anyways.

This is what it looks like now if its not clear...
2015-07-30%2020.05.36.jpg


Spent about 90 minutes tonight building my pump caddy based on my sketchup, went together pretty fast with some wood screws and glue...stained it to finish tommorrow.

Luckily i bought a small 12x12" sheet of really thin aluminum for a backplate when i was thinking of using the 12x12" plastic electrical boxes you can get at Home Depot/Lowes...so i can cut some strips off that to make my motor guards for the pump caddy tommorrow with some scissors.
 
brrman said:
I made a similar move... installed my sight glass on my pot. Installed the eyelet to hold the tube so high that the :(lid would no longer drop fully into the pot - hit the nut on the inside. Still haven't come up with a workaround for that one.
Click to expand...

oh god, i was totally thinking about doing my eye bolts tonight and didnt think of this...you probably just saved me from making the same mistake! Thanks!:tank:

On a related note, do you guys seal the eye bolt in any fashion? With some silicone on the outside or anything? To keep it from leaking? Or do you just not fill above the bolt?
 
FuzzeWuzze said:
oh god, i was totally thinking about doing my eye bolts tonight and didnt think of this...you probably just saved me from making the same mistake! Thanks!:tank:

On a related note, do you guys seal the eye bolt in any fashion? With some silicone on the outside or anything? To keep it from leaking? Or do you just not fill above the bolt?
Click to expand...

I don't think I would fill above the bolt.
 
Paps said:
So you all just passed this one up here???
I'm ashamed of you all.
Yer slippin.
Click to expand...

You got me good Paps!!! You shortened my quote though.....I was just trying to help!!! We are still talking about the sight glass right? Just kidding, you really got me good! :mug:

John
 
Could use some input from you guys!

So my box is a Bud industries SNB style box, it comes with a mounting bracket that i have bolted onto the box.

The problem comes on the other end..what the hell do i use to attach this thing to the sheetrock on my wall?

I got some 1/4" toggle anchors, but the actual screw head itself BARELY fits over the hole in the bracket..if i angle it at all the head slips right through the hole. My other thought is just using a big lag screw because of the giant head, but being 8.5" between hinges i am only going to be able to get one into a stud.

The box itself is just over 15#, not counting any weight from power cables and element cords pulling down..so i am giving a big margin and just saying 20# a relative lightweight when it comes to mounting compared to say a TV...finding anchors that hold that isnt a problem, the problem is that they all use tiny #6 or #8 screws which arent even close to the size of the hole in the bracket. Also i'd like a solution thats re-usable..if for whatever reason i have to take my box down i hate the idea of having to buy more toggle wings as they fall behind the wall.

What do you think if i used one lag screw into drywall and the other into a stud?
Another option is to go get a 1/4" flange bolt or something that should be able to screw into my toggle anchors?
 
FuzzeWuzze said:
Could use some input from you guys!

So my box is a Bud industries SNB style box, it comes with a mounting bracket that i have bolted onto the box.

The problem comes on the other end..what the hell do i use to attach this thing to the sheetrock on my wall?

I got some 1/4" toggle anchors, but the actual screw head itself BARELY fits over the hole in the bracket..if i angle it at all the head slips right through the hole. My other thought is just using a big lag screw because of the giant head, but being 8.5" between hinges i am only going to be able to get one into a stud.

The box itself is just over 15#, not counting any weight from power cables and element cords pulling down..so i am giving a big margin and just saying 20# a relative lightweight when it comes to mounting compared to say a TV...finding anchors that hold that isnt a problem, the problem is that they all use tiny #6 or #8 screws which arent even close to the size of the hole in the bracket. Also i'd like a solution thats re-usable..if for whatever reason i have to take my box down i hate the idea of having to buy more toggle wings as they fall behind the wall.

What do you think if i used one lag screw into drywall and the other into a stud?
Another option is to go get a 1/4" flange bolt or something that should be able to screw into my toggle anchors?
Click to expand...
I took a piece of 1/2" plywood... spray painted it flat black and screwed that to my wall... then screwed the control panel ,plug and breaker to it... its not the easiest pic to see it but you can zoom... I then added a second piece of plywood for my fermentor control panel. this is not the cleanest setup but it spreads the load on the wall out and makes it easier to patch up later as well as take it down to change or add stuff and be able to put it back easily..

you could always just use washers to make your toggle screw heads bigger too...

IMG_20151006_203739_793.jpg
 
augiedoggy said:
I took a piece of 1/2" plywood... spray painted it flat black and screwed that to my wall... then screwed the control panel ,plug and breaker to it... its not the easiest pic to see it but you can zoom... I then added a second piece of plywood for my fermentor control panel. this is not the cleanest setup but it spreads the load on the wall out and makes it easier to patch up later as well as take it down to change or add stuff and be able to put it back easily..

you could always just use washers to make your toggle screw heads bigger too...
Click to expand...

Lol washers...god im dumb..sometimes i get my blinders on and have a simple solution like that and ignore the obvious answer...

BUT

Turns out this house is full of surprises, i should have known better because the old owners spent tens of thousands in upgrades in the house with built in entertainment centers and stuff all throughout the house over the last few years.

I drilled a big ass hole in the wall to put my toggle bolt in and guess what? The damn garage(or atleast that wall) is fully finished and has what im guessing is 1/4 or 1/2 plywood behind like 1/2" sheet rock. Quickly spackled up that giant hole...

So tommorrow i go buy another lag screw(i can only find one) and attach it to the wall in a way thats easy for me to remove. I dont know why i didnt even think to look at it first, they did the same thing for the built in entertainment center they put in the living room(on the other side of the wall im using in the garage)..it made hanging the TV easy because you dont need to try centering on studs. So they probably just redid that entire section of wall.

Great news as it will mean i can take my box on and off more or less as much as i please (within reason) before the hole wont hold the screw anymore...but I cant see why i'd need to take it down that much anyways.
 
Just a small update showing the pump caddy i threw together, works pretty well but i may add some more wood to the bottom to make it a bit heavier.

Also you can see the floor mat I got for relatively cheap on Amazon to keep spills from disconnecting hoses etc contained and to keep the concrete garage floor from getting slippery.

20151004_195530.jpg
 
Well i think im ready to brew tommorrow(Friday) ...i still dont have my chiller built but will have plenty of down time to get it built. :)

12108113_1052405774778575_1244770392637872153_n.jpg
 
fuzzybee said:
Looks like what I'm planning on doing, so I'm subscribing. It doesn't look like your spreadsheet is available - could you link it again?
Click to expand...

You can access it here
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/117zZAo04mOzwOFJNQF4DkmkH5xQZMxgXIBnALkNDu-Q/edit

Also had my first brew yesterday, decided just to do a small 5 gallon batch but then realized that the beer im doing has a really low amount of grain..and with the larger dead space under the false bottom there wasnt much water above it. Ended up just adding more water to mash with more and just fly sparge less water in..hit my 75% goal and i was just eyeballing my mill settings based on the gauge on the side of the Cereal killer to where .039 or so was..ill have to get feelers.

Everything went off more or less without a hitch, although it ended up taking like 6 hours total instead of 4 because of learning the process and having to step away a few times..not to mention my boil ended about 20 minutes before i was able to finish my CFC ;)
 
WOO! more electric brewers in the yamhill / washington county! HOLLA! haha

Glad to see! and yeah, one more brew day or two with fiddling with the buttons and you'll be set!
 
Awesome!

My new setup is nearly identical to yours and will be firing it up for the first time next weekend. I never even thought about the deadspace under the FB creating an issue for a 5 gallon mash...
 
brrman said:
Awesome!

My new setup is nearly identical to yours and will be firing it up for the first time next weekend. I never even thought about the deadspace under the FB creating an issue for a 5 gallon mash...
Click to expand...

Worked out fine, i just ended up mashing with 5 gallons for 5# of grain and then just sparging until i had like 7.5 gallons ...I got my efficiency so doesnt matter in the end.
 

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