Let the journey begin....

[auburntsts]

So after months of waiting I’ve finally brewed my first batch (a Kit amber ale) right after Christmas and my 2nd batch (a kit blonde ale) this past Saturday! I spent a lot of time researching the process and decided to jump in with an all grain BIAB, small batch (1 gal) setup.

Why BIAB small batch? Low initial investment and stove top friendly (for brewing AG). By brewing small batches my thought process was it would allow me to keep the mistakes small in that if I screw up a batch I’ve only lost a 1 gallon vs 5. The low investment ($50 for a Brewer’s Best Kit plus some extras) also means that if I decide brewing is not for me I’m not into the hobby for big bucks. Finally, if I decide to grow into bigger batches, the small batch kit gives me an easy capability to experiment or try out new recipes again without a long brew day or potentially wasting 5 or more gallons.

Why all grain vs extract ? I decided that if I do continue with the hobby that I knew I’d end up doing AG, so I saw no practical benefit to starting with extract and working my way to AG. Nothing wrong with extract, I just didn’t see the point based upon my own preferences and desires. One of the few benefits of having to waiting all this time to start is it gave me the opportunity to learn a lot about brewing before attempting my first batch, probably way more than the average beginner who gets a kit as a present and launches into to it solely based upon the kit’s instructions. First, I’ve spent quite a bit of time here and other places on the web soaking it all in plus I bought and read Palmers “How-To-Brew”. Second, I downloaded Bru-n-Water, got copies of my municipal water reports, and treated my tap water accordingly (admittedly on blind faith as I don’t have a pH meter). I’ve also been keeping a close eye on fermenter temps, cooling and occasionally heating as required using a heating pad and a dorm fridge both controlled by an Inkbird ITC-308.

Time will tell how well I’ve done as I had some issues:

1. I brewed the first batch as a full volume no sparge—hit my temps and volumes, but the OG came in waaaay low. Next batch I followed the recipe’s instructions and did a partial volume mash that I topped up to pre-boil volume with a sparge step. Again the OG came in way low (measured cooled samples both times by hydrometer and refractometer). However, on the 2nd batch I added some DME to correct the OG.

2. The 2 gallon bucket that came with my kit, one additional one that I bought online from where I got the kit, and one I got at Lowes are all crap. The lids for all of them don’t fit worth a damn. For my second batch I bought a couple of these 1.4 gal Little Big Mouth Bubbler glass fermenters and they are perfect!

I’m still trying to figure the whole low OG thing out. I’ve compared the water volumes using a couple of online BIAB calculators, Beer Smith, the kit’s recipe and my own stubby pencil calcs taking into account my equipment and losses (I ran tests and did measuring prior to the first batch using tap water) and they are all close. So assuming there’s no issues in my process (and there may yet be), I’m thinking that maybe the grain crush was too coarse. I have an IPA and a Pale Ale kit left to brew and I’m contemplating getting a mill to see if a finer crush will solve the problem.

More to follow in a few weeks once I get these batches bottled and conditioned.

 

[RM-MN]

So after months of waiting I’ve finally brewed my first batch (a Kit amber ale) right after Christmas and my 2nd batch (a kit blonde ale) this past Saturday! I spent a lot of time researching the process and decided to jump in with an all grain BIAB, small batch (1 gal) setup.

Why BIAB small batch? Low initial investment and stove top friendly (for brewing AG). By brewing small batches my thought process was it would allow me to keep the mistakes small in that if I screw up a batch I’ve only lost a 1 gallon vs 5. The low investment ($50 for a Brewer’s Best Kit plus some extras) also means that if I decide brewing is not for me I’m not into the hobby for big bucks. Finally, if I decide to grow into bigger batches, the small batch kit gives me an easy capability to experiment or try out new recipes again without a long brew day or potentially wasting 5 or more gallons.

Why all grain vs extract ? I decided that if I do continue with the hobby that I knew I’d end up doing AG, so I saw no practical benefit to starting with extract and working my way to AG. Nothing wrong with extract, I just didn’t see the point based upon my own preferences and desires. One of the few benefits of having to waiting all this time to start is it gave me the opportunity to learn a lot about brewing before attempting my first batch, probably way more than the average beginner who gets a kit as a present and launches into to it solely based upon the kit’s instructions. First, I’ve spent quite a bit of time here and other places on the web soaking it all in plus I bought and read Palmers “How-To-Brew”. Second, I downloaded Bru-n-Water, got copies of my municipal water reports, and treated my tap water accordingly (admittedly on blind faith as I don’t have a pH meter). I’ve also been keeping a close eye on fermenter temps, cooling and occasionally heating as required using a heating pad and a dorm fridge both controlled by an Inkbird ITC-308.

Time will tell how well I’ve done as I had some issues:

1. I brewed the first batch as a full volume no sparge—hit my temps and volumes, but the OG came in waaaay low. Next batch I followed the recipe’s instructions and did a partial volume mash that I topped up to pre-boil volume with a sparge step. Again the OG came in way low (measured cooled samples both times by hydrometer and refractometer). However, on the 2nd batch I added some DME to correct the OG.

2. The 2 gallon bucket that came with my kit, one additional one that I bought online from where I got the kit, and one I got at Lowes are all crap. The lids for all of them don’t fit worth a damn. For my second batch I bought a couple of these 1.4 gal Little Big Mouth Bubbler glass fermenters and they are perfect!

I’m still trying to figure the whole low OG thing out. I’ve compared the water volumes using a couple of online BIAB calculators, Beer Smith, the kit’s recipe and my own stubby pencil calcs taking into account my equipment and losses (I ran tests and did measuring prior to the first batch using tap water) and they are all close. So assuming there’s no issues in my process (and there may yet be), I’m thinking that maybe the grain crush was too coarse. I have an IPA and a Pale Ale kit left to brew and I’m contemplating getting a mill to see if a finer crush will solve the problem.

More to follow in a few weeks once I get these batches bottled and conditioned.

Are you the owner of the mill used to mill the grain? If not, that is the usual cause of low OG. One work-around that may help and will tell you if the crush of the grain is to blame is to extend the mash from 60 minutes to 90 or even 120 minutes. If you get an OG more in line with what you expect, blame the crush.

 

[auburntsts]

Are you the owner of the mill used to mill the grain? If not, that is the usual cause of low OG. One work-around that may help and will tell you if the crush of the grain is to blame is to extend the mash from 60 minutes to 90 or even 120 minutes. If you get an OG more in line with what you expect, blame the crush.

No the grain came pre-milled in a kit, that's why I'm contemplating buying my own mill. I will try extending the mash time. If I jump right out to a 120 minute mash (vs 60), any issues I need to guard against (aside from letting the temp drop)?

 

[RM-MN]

You will likely get a more fermentable wort from the 120 minute mash but the point is to let the grain have more time for more starch to gelatinize, the first step in conversion.

 

[auburntsts]

So I brewed the 3rd kit from the same online brew supply store and once again the pre-boil SG came in way low at 60 min (mashed at 150* F per the recipe) so I extended the mash out to 90 then 120 mins and there was essentially no change. I corrected with DME and hit my target OG post boil. So thoughts on what the SG problem might be?

 

[PADave]

IMO, if doing AG you need to mill your own grains. Just for the sake of consistency.

 

[Lefou]

So I brewed the 3rd kit from the same online brew supply store and once again the pre-boil SG came in way low at 60 min (mashed at 150* F per the recipe) so I extended the mash out to 90 then 120 mins and there was essentially no change. I corrected with DME and hit my target OG post boil. So thoughts on what the SG problem might be?

It's a grain or water problem, possibly a combination of both.
If your water has a starting pH above 8 and is loaded with carbonates it could throw your mash way off.
I typically use a low mineral "soft" water treated with calcium salts because it provides the best profile for the light SRM beers I do. Had some problems with crappy grain simply because it was old. In one instance, the grain I bought had bugs. In order to kill the bugs, the grain got microwaved.
Big mistake. It killed the grain weevils but dried the grain to the point where it wouldn't gelatinize or convert properly even after an extended mash with added amylase.

 

[auburntsts]

It's a grain or water problem, possibly a combination of both.
If your water has a starting pH above 8 and is loaded with carbonates it could throw your mash way off.
I typically use a low mineral "soft" water treated with calcium salts because it provides the best profile for the light SRM beers I do. Had some problems with crappy grain simply because it was old. In one instance, the grain I bought had bugs. In order to kill the bugs, the grain got microwaved.
Big mistake. It killed the grain weevils but dried the grain to the point where it wouldn't gelatinize or convert properly even after an extended mash with added amylase.

I'm confident it's not the water based upon my water report (pH 7.4, Carbonates 0.0, Bicarbonate 53 ppm) and the adjustments I made IAW Bru-n-Water. On the first 2 kits, I was of the mind it was the crush. However, this kit's crush looked better but being a noob what I think might look fine may in fact not be. As to the grain's age, my wife bought the kits as a Christmas present back in mid-Oct. So the grain was milled a minimum of 3 months ago and has been sealed in the original packaging until brewday, but I have no idea if the kits where made to order or have been sitting on a shelf.

 

[Lefou]

If you're doing BIAB on the stove top with good grain and have accurate thermometers there's no reason NOT to expect a good conversion and high efficiency. If the bag is a good one, the last resort (for me, anyway) would be to turn the grist to near-flour consistency - and if that didn't help, it's definitely a grain issue.

 

[auburntsts]

Well, I've now brewed the 4 AG BIAB kits (an Amber, Blonde, Pale, and an IPA) that my wife got me for Christmas. All 4 came in with low OGs that I corrected with DME (except for the Amber which was brew #1--didn't have any DME for that one). For brew #3 (the Pale), I extended the mash out to 120 minutes but that basically had no effect. Prior to brew #4 (the IPA) I bought a cereal killer mill and re-milled the kit at a credit card's gap setting. The OG did improve, but was still way lower than the target based upon the recipe sheet. And I realize that I could have dialed the mill to its smallest setting (.025 IIRC) as I'm doing BIAB for perhaps even more improvement, but I still think that wouldn't have solved the problem. Since I'm now out of kits, for my next brew I'm going to get the grain unmilled from my LHBS and see if that makes the difference. If that doesn't work then I'm not sure what the next course of action will be.

 

[gunhaus]

How low is way low on the OG?

 

[auburntsts]

How low is way low on the OG?

By about 20-25 points (measured by hydrometer and refractometer -- eg expecting 1.051 and getting 1.025).

 

[gunhaus]

Yup - that's low. I only asked because I have seen people panic over three points, and i didn't see the difference mentioned. I gotta think water or grain as well. Even though your confident in your water it might not hurt to try and build some water from some RO or distilled to try as well. Not a big cost or anything in one gal batches - Just a thought

 

[wes79]

Hey guys, could it be his thermometer is way off? 132 instead of 152

 

[JETDOG07]

Those kits come with enough grain based on the efficiency of the recipe. It could simply be that with your system you are getting lower efficiency than what the recipe is created with. For example, I do brew in a bag for 5 gallon batches and calculate all my recipes at 65% efficiency because this is what I've found my system gives me for beers 1.060 or lower. I also double crush my grains as I've found that lends about 5% more efficiency.

You might just need more grain to get to the OG you want.

 

[auburntsts]

These are 1 gallon kits. I expect my efficiency is low, but not low enough to cause this big of an OG problem--I mean it's full volume, no sparge, BIAB which is about as simple and uncomplicated as it gets AG. On one of the brews I did try partial volume with a sparge step exactly per the instruction sheet but had the same problem.

My thermometer is a thermapen which I calibrated with ice water and boiling water so although possible, as I have not cross checked it against another thermometer at mash temps, it seems unlikely it's in error.

I'm of the mind than it's a grain issue, but don't have the knowledge/ experience to know if my hunch is correct. I'm anxious to get some grain, mill it myself, and give it another go.

 

[JETDOG07]

These are 1 gallon kits. I expect my efficiency is low, but not low enough to cause this big of an OG problem--I mean it's full volume, no sparge, BIAB which is about as simple and uncomplicated as it gets AG. On one of the brews I did try partial volume with a sparge step exactly per the instruction sheet but had the same problem.

My thermometer is a thermapen which I calibrated with ice water and boiling water so although possible, as I have not cross checked it against another thermometer at mash temps, it seems unlikely it's in error.

I'm of the mind than it's a grain issue, but don't have the knowledge/ experience to know if my hunch is correct. I'm anxious to get some grain, mill it myself, and give it another go.

Have you calculated your efficiency?

 

[auburntsts]

So I finished brewing my first batch (Yooper's oatmeal Stout) with grain from my LHBS that I milled myself and I'm happy to report I nailed the OG this time without having to add any DME! I milled the grain on the smallest setting on my mill (.025) and used my new Wilserbrew BIAB bag (love it BTW --way better than the paint strainer bad I was using). And before I mashed in, I compared my Thermapen against my lab thermometer across a range of temps and they were within a deg of each other at each point I checked. Anyway I don't want to jump to conclusions after just one batch, but I'm pretty optimistic that my low OG issues were indeed tied to the grain in those initial kits we bought online. This weekend I plan to brew Beirmuncher's Centennial Blonde so we'll see if I've hit upon the solution.

 

[gypsyhead]

Fantastic that youre jumping into salt calcs already, but how are you fully adjusting your mash pH (ie. Acid of some form)? What's your Kettle Full pH? I love BIAB for small trials, but mash pH has been the largest contributor to inefficiency (if you're 100% sure all of your weights and volumes are accurate).
50% expected gravity is a bit extreme. What was your pre-boil gravity and volume lautered? Most homebrewers account for about 10% evaporation, which can affect your gravity greatly. Commercial brewers are generally seeing 3-8% evap because they're using different methods

 

[gypsyhead]

A few other quick q's:
-how long are you letting the bag drip into the kettle after lifting it out? Straight into the trash, or are you squeezing the sack? If you can get a gravity reading on the wort that drips out of the sack after you've pulled it out, that will tell you how much more sugar is left
-how cloudy is your wort? Generally, with modern malts in normal ratios, your starches will be fully converted within 15 minutes. If there's a slight white haze and an astringency to the beer, you may not be fully converting, but that doesn't sound like your problem.
-Are you dipping your sack? Just like dipping a tea bag, do you dunk and fully rinse your grain sack or are you mashing at 1 temp then removing?

 

[auburntsts]

Fantastic that youre jumping into salt calcs already, but how are you fully adjusting your mash pH (ie. Acid of some form)? What's your Kettle Full pH? I love BIAB for small trials, but mash pH has been the largest contributor to inefficiency (if you're 100% sure all of your weights and volumes are accurate).
50% expected gravity is a bit extreme. What was your pre-boil gravity and volume lautered? Most homebrewers account for about 10% evaporation, which can affect your gravity greatly. Commercial brewers are generally seeing 3-8% evap because they're using different methods

I'm using Brun'Water to determine my mineral and acid additions, but I don't have a pH meter yet to actually check the mash pH. I measured my evap rate using water first and crosschecked during actual brew days and loaded that plus all the various parameters into BeerSmith. I did brew following the kit's instructions on one batch and then using just BeerSmith on the others with the exact same low OG results. I did full volume mashes on 3 of the kits and a partial vol mash with a sparge on one. I was able to maintain my mash temps to within 2 deg of the target and confirmed my Thermapen is reading accurately (calibrated against an ice water solution, boiling water, and a lab thermometer). Even tried mashing longer than 60 min. For all the kits I let the bag drip for about 10-15 mins followed by a light to moderate squeeze. No matter what process I used the result was the same very low OG.

Fast forward to last night's brew: same full vol mash process, same equipment using Brun-Water and BeerSmith but with major one change. The grain came from my LHBS and I milled it with as fine of a crush as my mill will allow. And low and behold I hit my estimated OG spot on. So since only the grain variable changed, I'd say the evidence seems to point to the grain in those online kits (they all came from the same retailer and were bought at the same time) as being the source of my OG issue. Like I said, without some additional brews to confirm this hypothesis, I wont know for sure, but I'm pretty confident I've figured it out. Time will tell.....