??leave in Peaches? Sur Lie? using Muslin bags?

[fuzzypeach]

Hello I'm down a south kinda gal, born n raised here in Florida close to the Georgia border. So I found this site while looking for information on brewing homemade wine from peaches. I'm thinking about leaving the fruit in primary ala *Sur Lie*. ( which I know is usually more of a secondary process style) I'm wondering if anyone has attempted this yet?

I'm gonna start a huge primary in the 100L Innox container tonight but in three days I will leave town for 3 weeks…so I have been researching the options and it seems that peach "lees" may add a complexity and flavor that people seem to enjoy. They use it in whites like chardonnay & they call it *Sur Lie*. I wanted to sew a bag from muslin as I have that and I Sew has anyone had issues good or bad about using muslin rather than cheesecloth or nylon?

Why are you asking all of this you may ask? Long story, wanna hear it? Here it goes…

I have always been interested in home-brewing and canning, I started small with canning but recently I found a 100L Fusti Innox Container with a lever spigot for $130 so I decided to go big or go home. I went to an orchard or two in Georgia and got 4 cases of beautiful Flame Prince and August Prince freestone Peaches. Hit the LHBS (local home brew store? right?) Picked up the yeast and tools- Realized my husbands prior salt water fish hobby will pay off with knowledge of Hydrometers,PH reading kits, measuring Specific Gravity, and using siphons. I had also picked up 6 old Italian Ambrose Wine Bottles with round bottoms and recycled rubber handled baskets to use as my Carboys, 2-5L and 4-10 L, at the LHBS we located the proper sized rubber bungs and airlocks, DH grabbed 25Lbs of Sugar, 5 Gal Water, ( may need more )

Some recipes don't remove the peaches at all and call it "brandy" or remove well after and into secondary or immediately prior to drinking but those are almost always very unscientific endeavors baking yeast and wild yeast efforts. Supposedly I'm thinking leaving the fruit for 3 weeks will add the extra kick (from a February thread by a Moderator named—-Pappy?). I want to start it now because I don't want to freeze the peaches as I doubt my freezer would hold them.(4 cases ) & I feel like it would defeat the entire escapade of fresh fruit winemaking.

Should I make a muslin bag to hold/remove the fruit at day three? Or leave it in?

I have found a zillion peach wine recipes and blogs about beginning a batch but only a few completed with any actual end products and they seem to use Grapes, Raisins, Tea or Tannin to add body? I want the peach to be unadulterated so well how about a little input from the experts?

 

[Yooper]

The peaches ideally would come out around day 5-7, as it will break down (rot) after that. Even aging sur lie isn't just leaving crud in the wine- when aging sur lie, the wine is still to keep the lees from breaking down.

 

[fuzzypeach]

Thanks for answering!! So I guess I'll use the homemade Muslin bag(s) instead of a nylon one and ask my son to pull the mash after 5 days.

 

[fuzzypeach]

Yooper thanks for the earlier answer!! Wanted to Continue (this site rocks) so I changed the thread name to be more appropriate to the continuation of the Sur Lie experiment…

Two Days ago, I started a fresh peach ferment with 43lbs. of Peaches (weighed after washing whole in 3 tabs Camden & 10? gallons water for an hour or so and depitting), 25 lbs. Cane Sugar, and enough water to make 8 Gallons total simple syrup ( measured after dilution).

So all together probably got 10 Gal. ( mash? ) in the Stainless Steel Fusti, with the lid cracked, measured out at 1.13 SG on my hydro, it took forever to cool in the stainless tank, so I added 1oz. Citric Acid and Yeast last night. I pitched two packets of Champagne Red Star Yeast with 1/2 c. OJ concentrate and 1/2 cup. (mash or wash?) liquid. (bakers call this the sponge or do u use the term starter?) I then waited till foamy (drank 2 glasses of wine) and poured it on top:rockin: Covered loosely with the stainless lid.

This morning woke up and it was bubbling good so I (punched it?) stirred it briskly to oxygenate. I plan to teach my son to read the Hydro today and will ask him to take a reading and rack into carboys with airlocks for the secondary ferment in about three days while I'm out of town for 3 weeks. Hoping I'll come back to .998

I did not add nutrient as I didn't have any (LBS didn't recommend) and in Florida its so warm yeast doesn't usually have any problems reproducing. Any suggestions or any recommendations to look out for??

What's the Hydro reading to get him to rack it at?

I will have him just use the bottom lever spout right into glass carboys through a small tea sized mesh to catch solids.

Thanks in advance for following along Ill post pics later off to LBS to buy more stopper/bungs!

 

[Honda88]

do you mean 1.113 for an SG??? 1.13 would put you at like 17% alcohol. The champagne yeast you used probably won't go that high..... If it started at 1.113 that will probably work. Id wait until its at about 1.010 to rack it off.

 

[fuzzypeach]

So I've been busy and wanted to update this thread with what happened during the 3 week vacation ferment.

First, I want to clarify the starting Hydrometer reading b/c I am a newbie but believe it was likely 1.13 OG as the prior post stated.
However, I will write this in laymen terms just to be certain I am correct. I thought the hydrometers scale was from the top down showing it in hundredth's 1.01 ( it has numbers at .998 then 1.00 then ten marking lines and a 10 - ten marking lines and a 20 - 30- 40- and so on down to 1.1 then the (tenth's?) marked in ten equal spaces 10 / 20 / 30 with ten small marked lines between each of those. My assumption was 1.1 was the first measuring marked *line* in that lower section and after that each line was 1.101, 1.102 until the marked measurement #10 which I just started counting the whole numbers as tenths. If true that meant 1.1 and 30 was 1.13. (correct?) The reading was at the lower segment meniscus on the number 30. Thus, my OG or Original Specific Gravity should have been stated as 1.13 right?

According to a conversion for sugars chart That's roughly 3 lb. of sugars were dissolved within each gallon of simple syrup and that sounds about right b/c as I stated a 25 lb. bag cane sugar was a goner. I made a boiling simple syrup with that 25lb. sack and enough water to dissolve it to equal a total of 10 gallons. I added that simple syrup boiling to about 2 cases of peaches that were pre-washed whole to kill beasties ( Floated/Bobbed for peaches after 30 minutes or so in Rubbermaid bin with 8 - 10 campden tabs dissolved into 10 Gallons of water) DH & I de-pitted then cut them into tenths or eighths in my husbands case. I Pitched yeast into the wash using two packets of red star champagne yeast rehydrated in 1/2c OJ & 1/2 c wash water until a bubbly sponge started.

OK, so then the science experiment began because as I said Vacation intervened. I went to Portland, Ore. and Hood Canal in Washington. Had fun & drank some small distillery alcohol. I didn't abandon my peaches though, I texted my son just about every day and tried not to pester him too much when he ignored my questions about my ferment and answered any other texts/questions instead. I probably asked once a week did you stir the peaches and check the hydrometer yet? No answer or "I will tomorrow". "The wine may be ready to be racked off the fruit," I'd text.Well anyway, he says he checked it and it was fine, no mildew or mold, he said he just stirred it down and the bubbling continued so he didn't rack it yet, but honestly that was like twice that he responded over three weeks and three days. So, September 13th, the day before I drove back in town. He racked it off the fruit into some reclaimed 10L "ambrose" Italian wine bottles (and one 5L one) I had found at Homegoods for $10 apiece. They came with recycled rubber 2 piece baskets/light covers with carrying handles so I'm certain that is the intended use even though Homegoods just thought they were decor. So, using those as my carboys, he racked I expected mold but happily I arrived home to these all in a row on the counter with airlocks but no liquid in the airlocks LOL. I was sure the fruit was on it too long and it would be rancid or moldy with an off taste but I was wrong! First, I taste tested it in a glass, and made sure my super finicky son was willing to do the same ( ok, good he's drinking it… so survey says it never got moldy!) The aroma and taste were like a very dry chardonnay, but a bit astringent, so then I checked it with the Hydrometer and (after 3 weeks almost 4) the sugars had all converted and it was sitting at 1.00. they were all a peach/light amber in color and still had a ton of haziness, and one had quite a bit of floating fruit and the Hydrometer reading on that one was .998. We named that one the "Boozy Batch". DH and I racked them all and waited for the sediment to settle again. I went ahead and bottled up half of them a few weeks after that October 1st or so? Put some of the really boozy hazy stuff in the fridge to cold crash. It cleared up nicely and we drank it in small amounts like a peach vodka. One small glass 4-6 oz. pour would get you toasted and we are not lightweights. The rest of the bottles are like a great high alcohol Chardonnay - I'm really a Cabernet Girl but fresh peaches is what I got and Chardonnay is what I get! Pretty impressive too!

OK so my ABV estimate on the "boozy" one is 1.13 OG adjusted by .0016 delta G (75*F) which is generous in FL. and rounded is 1.15 OG minus the FG of .998 (adjusted by .0016 Delta G (75*F) =.9996 rounded to 1.0 FG = .15 Gravity or Density Conversion X 1.35 = 20% ABV or using the wine ABV calculator at the link here —> http://www.vintnerresources.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1444&Itemid=118

It states 21%ABV? Admittedly, I used the Champagne Yeast by Red Star which I guess supposedly tops out at roughly 18% and thus I'm not so sure it's that % for sure… but, they are all estimations and I can definitely say it's higher ABV than the 14% ABV Cabernet I routinely have in my house and two 6oz. glasses of that don't make me feel near as buzzed as the one glass of the "Boozy batch". As for quality, the "astringency" or alcohol ester bite/flavor goes away with breathing/aeration but it still has a chest warming effect.
Now I'm thinking about the ability to store? I'm bottle conditioning ones in the wine chiller at 62* think they will be just about right at christmas?

 

[MindenMan]

Welcome to the site of course, and for a noob home brewer, what you did took a lot of courage, way more than I had when I started home brewing. Congratulations on your success. I don't make wine technically, but I do make some very high proof ciders. In my experience, as time passes the alcohol burn will settle down, and the fruit flavor will really come to the front, making what I refer to as "hurricane" cider. If you are familiar with the cocktail "hurricane" when made properly, it is hard to tell there is any alcohol in it, but when when you get up to walk away from the table, the hurricane washes your legs out from underneath you. Henceforth, "hurricane". IMHO, Yooper is the gal to talk to about all things containing fruit and alcohol.