Leaking CO2

[blackburied]

Trying to find a slow leak. Bubble test is coming up empty. Brand new dual-guage system. Gauges came pre-assembled from Danby... hoping to not have to disassemble.

If I turn-off both keg hoses and the CO2 tank, the main gauge very slowly drops from 750PSI to zero, and the beer PSI raises to 60 and the relief valve starts leaking.

If I turn-on both keg hoses and turn-off the CO2 tank, the main gauge very slowly drops from 750PSI to zero, and the beer PSI remains constant.

Other than the gauge assembly, I've re-sealed and re-tightened all connections and hoses, mostly with gas plumber's tape and new washers. ... I've even tightened a few of the gauge assembly connections.

Note two ~full kegs are tapped.

 

[Golddiggie]

Change the worm clamps to oetiker clamps. IME, worm clamps SUCK for getting to seal 100% every time. I use the oetiker clamps on all tubing (where clamps are needed).

BTW, the clamps stamped 15.5 are good for gas lines (9/16" OD) and the 13.3 are good for the beer line (7/16" OD). IIRC, the number is the largest tubing size the clamps will work with. You want the top end to be close to the size of the tubing (but enough to go over any barbs) and then crimp them down tight.

I would also rotate your regulator to put less of a bend in the tubing coming out of the valves you have showing.

 

[blackburied]

I would also rotate your regulator to put less of a bend in the tubing coming out of the valves you have showing.

... that orientation is mostly to make it easy to monitor: I just moved it to that. Strangely, I can't rotate 90 degrees to vertical, or the tank will cut the hose.

 

[Golddiggie]

... that orientation is mostly to make it easy to monitor: I just moved it to that. Strangely, I can't rotate 90 degrees to vertical, or the tank will cut the hose.

Why would the tank (a round/blunt item) CUT the hose? Of course, I have both my gas tanks, and regulators next to my keezer without any issue. Of course, I'm sending the lines through the collar (CO2 has a dual body regulator, each feeding a manifold inside) and the draft gas (nitro/CO2 mix) is also going into manifolds (I coupled two together for use to feed enough kegs for my needs). I've changed most of my lines to the Ultra Barrier (silver) lines since they're more flexible than the old double wall lines I was using. Especially at cold temperatures.

I would suggest going to a single gas out on the regulator and get a manifold inside the beer fridge to split the feed. Less gas lines running outside to deal with and such. Pretty sad that they send a setup out with the Y configuration, with the CO2 tank bracket positioned like that. Unless there's another mounting position on the other side.

 

[blackburied]

Why would the tank (a round/blunt item) CUT the hose?

Where letters/numbers are etched into the tank, it is not smooth.

 

[camonick]

Does that regulator have an o-ring or gasket on the stem that connects to the tank valve? If not, you’ll need one.

 

[day_trippr]

I can see what the OP means wrt hoses vs cylinder: in the current orientation the wye splitter causes the branch closest to the tank to jamb up against the cylinder as the gauge set approaches vertical.

Anyway: if the OP is literally watching the high pressure gauge drop with both shut-offs closed I'd say find someone with good hearing to put an ear to that setup as there has to be a prominent leak for that to happen!

Cheers!

 

[blackburied]

Does that regulator have an o-ring or gasket on the stem that connects to the tank valve? If not, you’ll need one.

I have two gaskets in there now ... the o-rings supplied were the wrong size. I'm pretty sure it isn't the tank.

 

[blackburied]

if the OP is literally watching the high pressure gauge drop with both shut-offs closed I'd say find someone with good hearing to put an ear to that setup as there has to be a prominent leak for that to happen!

It takes awhile... I have to walk away. Normally goes to zero over an hour.

I wear hearing aids... and turned them up to 11... no hiss. Bubble tests pass too.

 

[TheMadKing]

Disconnect both kegs and put the entire Co2 tank regulator and hoses in the bathtub full of water. Bubbles have to be coming out somewhere

 

[blackburied]

Does it mean anything that the beer PSI remains constant when the keg hoses are on... or when the keg hoses are off that the beer pressure gauge heads for its maximum, or are those expected behaviors?

Is there a procedure for un-tapping the beer so I can shut-off the tank when not in use (to preserve what's in the CO2 tank)? ... i.e. do I shut the tank off first, but leave the pressure in the system while removing the taps, or ???

 

[TheMadKing]

Does it mean anything that the beer PSI remains constant when the keg hoses are on... or when the keg hoses are off that the beer pressure gauge heads for its maximum, or are those expected behaviors?

Is there a procedure for un-tapping the beer so I can shut-off the tank when not in use (to preserve what's in the CO2 tank)? ... i.e. do I shut the tank off first, but leave the pressure in the system while removing the taps, or ???

The beer PSI heading for its maximum is strange. That sounds like your regulator might be leaking between your high pressure and low pressure side

 

[blackburied]

put the entire Co2 tank regulator and hoses in the bathtub

Not sure how quite to do that and still keep it under positive pressure... but did put the tank and regulator into a water-filled cooler and found three leaks in the regulator. I've heard some threads here say "don't submerge the regulator", but this is the tropics, so pretty much submerged all the time anyway

 

[blackburied]

The beer PSI heading for its maximum is strange. That sounds like your regulator might be leaking between your high pressure and low pressure side

See attached image with tank off and hoses off, the keg pressure heads for the roof in just a few minutes.

... As this is a new unit, I'll take this offline to Danby.

 

[Golddiggie]

IMO, that regulator is at least a major part of the issue. Worm clamps are another part. Why places sell third tier regulators with kegging setups is beyond me. Cheap chrome plating doesn't equate to quality hardware. Hell, none of my regulators are shiny, but they work perfectly. Also, with the Y connection at the regulator, you have two additional connections that could be your leak source. Where others have just one (from the regulator out to the kegs). Also, the PRV is another point of potential leak. None of my regulators have that.

I've used regular Teflon tape when making any changes to gas line components. I simply wrap the fitting enough times to get a solid seal.

I'd get/order a Taprite regulator and a two port manifold if it was me. Put the current regulator aside in case you ever decide you want to fiddle with it to get it working properly. Get the regulator with the shutoff valve (with MFL fitting) on it so you can simply use swivel nuts to connect the gas line. Same for the manifold. I've gotten all my manifolds from Keg Connection over the years. I just looked and the current products have a different style ball valve on them. I have the brass ones (you can get here) on all of mine that are in use. Which reminds me that I need to order a few spare. I like to always have at least a few spares of important items on hand. I buy the clamps in at least 25 count bags.

BTW, is there a brand name someplace on that regulator? Maybe reach out to the vendor you bought the entire thing from to tell them their gas side sucks and leaks badly.

 

[TheMadKing]

Not sure how quite to do that and still keep it under positive pressure... but did put the tank and regulator into a water-filled cooler and found three leaks in the regulator. I've heard some threads here say "don't submerge the regulator", but this is the tropics, so pretty much submerged all the time anyway

Your quick disconnects should be holding pressure. So if you unhook your disconnects from your keg with the pressure set at 10psi, everything still connected to the low pressure side of the regulator including the lines should still hold 10psi. If that's not the case, something is wrong

 

[Beermeister32]

If I turn-off both keg hoses and the CO2 tank, the main gauge very slowly drops from 750PSI to zero, and the beer PSI raises to 60 and the relief valve starts leaking.

Your regulated side should not raise as the tank bleeds down after tank shutoff. Either get another regulator or rebuild this one, you have a problem there.

 

[Vale71]

Your regulated side should not raise as the tank bleeds down after tank shutoff. Either get another regulator or rebuild this one, you have a problem there.

Second that. You clearly don't have a leak sensu stricto but you do have CO2 leaking unregulated from the high-pressure side to the low-pressure side of the regulator. Be thankful that the at least the PRV works as expected. Since it's a new unit send it back ASAP.

 

[blackburied]

Thank you all for all the great advice. I have started email with Danby concerning the low pressure regulator leak/replacement.

But, as of this morning, after many hours of testing, I did find/fix 5 leaks in the pre-assembled regulator unit. Submerging in a cooler full of water (separately for each keg and the CO2 tank/regulator unit) was key (and I could easily bring the cooler to the kegerator). The leaks were so slow, bubble testing alone didn't find the subtile leaks (just using soapy water).

Over an hour, I am seeing the high pressure gauge go to zero when shutoff. I am seeing no signs of any leakage doing the separate submersion tests of the tank/regulator or either keg. The only thing left is the run of hoses in between (their connectors are submerged).

Roll up your pant legs, I have a response from Danby:

If there are leakage on the connection/regulator you may hear some hissing sound. I believed that this is normal that the gauge will still have some display even both valves are closed.

OMG: some hissing is expected!!!! ... She also doesn't understand that the low-pressure gauge is increasing in pressure with the valves closed. Will keep trying.

 

[Golddiggie]

I'm going to repeat my earlier recommendation of ditching that regulator and get a Taprite regulator instead. The ones I've bought new had ZERO issues right out of the box. Also, I can't recommend the oetiker clamps highly enough. IMO, it's pretty telling when companies use those inside items that need to have zero leaks and not the worm clamps. Things like glycol chillers (confirmed the Max2 I have uses those on the inside). I think most places go with the worm clamps because they assume people either don't know any better, or think they're going to seal 100%. The very nature of those clamps prevents them from having a full 360 degree clamping force. Not so with oetiker clamps.

 

[Vale71]

That regulator is unusable, send it back ASAP. If you were to leave it connected to the keg with all valves open you'd have grossly overcarbed beer in no time plus all the wasted CO2.