Landlord issues.... Short Sale on apt.

[mosquitocontrol]

Moved into this apartment in October and signed a year lease. Really liking the location and place we were hoping to stay at least two years. The landlord (guessing late 20's, non-professional female) had mentioned being in the break even range on when considering rent, mortgage, HOA's, etc. We didn't really think too much about it at the time.

Fast forward to January, apparently she loses a few hundred on a monthly basis on the condo because she has had an interest only mortgage since she bought it. Regardless of how dumb I know that is it just doesn't seem like she is very bright when it comes to this sort of thing.

Two weeks ago she tells us she has to put the place on the market for a short sale. Okay, not much I can do about that. You have to let the landlord in with appropriate notice, supposedly 24 hours. And in the lease there's no restrictions to how often or how long. Apparently I'm expected to just leave the place I pay for a few hours every couple days to let them come look at this place? With a short sale, who knows how long this crap will last for or how many people will be going through my apartment.

I am unemployed and therefore spend my days at home. Its the middle of the winter, so at this point every time I leave I spend money going to the store, doing errands, or just trying to find somewhere I can use the internet. So needless to say I was already frustrated just knowing I'd have to leave all the time.

First showings were today, and my landlord "asked" at 10:30AM for people to come over at 3pm. I let her know I could make it work today, but I need 24 hours notice in the future.Then at 1, she texts and changes it from 2-4 and I'm rushed to do all housework and crap in an hour.

Flash forward to now. At 4:30 I'm on homebrewtalk, hear a knock, and before I can even get to the door less than 20 feet away 2 people come in. Now, I have music on you can clearly hear in the hallway and they just came in! I am a little frustrated at this point. I could have been brewing, sleeping, naked, or any number of things. I had read stories online about this happening so I knew it would happen eventually but having it happen the first day is making me realize how often it will likely happen.

It freaks me out. The rest of the night every sound I heard I thought someone was opening the door. Paranoid drunk on a Friday in your own house = Not cool.

I pay $1400 a month to live here yet I have to leave whenever there's a showing. I have to make appointments with my landlord to leave. I don't have a job, I shouldn't have to make meetings. How come the tenant is the one who has to deal with all the hassles of selling a place that they don't own?

Are there any specific rights I should know? I don't think there is too much I can do about showings other than strongly enforcing the 24 hours notice. Can I get the lockbox removed from the outside to prevent more walk-ins?

Is there anything else I should be aware in this type of situation?
Am I right in that when the place does sell they have to uphold our lease for the remainder of the time or can they just kick us out if they want to move in?
Should I start asking for my security deposit now? What is going to happen with it when it sells?

Although I don't want to move now, do I have any out of the lease? I highly doubt it. But I sort of feel like she should have told us the real severity of the situation before we moved in. According to zillow (have no ideas on the accuracy) the place had been on the market from July until 10/4 and we moved in the last week of September. Is that not something that is required to be disclosed on the lease? If I had realized that, I would have seen this nightmare coming and chosen a different place to live.

 

[boo boo]

No one can just walk into your place without you actually opening the door to let them in and having permission to do so. Well other than police with a warrent or reasonable cause.
You do have rights. Did you check with the lease and or landlord agreements of your state?

 

[snccoulter]

you have the legal right no not let them in it is not their house at the moment it is yours. they cannot enter without you permission. I have a buddy that does property law and has successively brought charges on landlords and gotten settlements. . Or walk around neked so it they do they get an eye full and wont come back. I will ask my buddy to give me some references for you next time he loads up FB

 

[brewingmeister]

I agree with the above advice. The lease should have to run its course with the new owner but I'm not sure about the technicalities involved. I would definitely stop cleaning up especially since they just want to show up anytime with or without notice. Also use a chain on the door if you have one.

 

[dataz722]

Just leave the place a complete mess and walkaround naked or in your boxers if they don't give you the appropriate notice. They will probably learn pretty quick. That or start using one of these when you are home and they haven't told you anyone will be coming.

 

[DregAddict]

The lease might not necessarily have to run it's course if a new owner buys the place. Some friends of mine were renting a house that was foreclosed on with about 6 months left in their lease and they had to move out. There were legal obligations the bank(new owner) had to meet, but they weren't much. I think they pretty much got 2 weeks to move out after the day the bank took over. I'm sure there are also differences state by state.

As for prospective buyers coming in on short notice or worse unannounced, I agree with some of the other posts that this is not legal. That's an actual invasion of your privacy. Technically your landlord herself should not even be able to come inside the apartment without your permission unless it is to actually evict you for cause.

 

[dataz722]

The lease might not necessarily have to run it's course if a new owner buys the place. Some friends of mine were renting a house that was foreclosed on with about 6 months left in their lease and they had to move out. There were legal obligations the bank(new owner) had to meet, but they weren't much. I think they pretty much got 2 weeks to move out after the day the bank took over. I'm sure there are also differences state by state.

It differs from state to state but some states actually have laws that if there is an existing annual lease that even if the property is sold or foreclosed that they have to let the tenants stay and keep all the initial lease agreements including price and anything else. It does give the tenant the option to break the lease at the time though with no penalty.

As for prospective buyers coming in on short notice or worse unannounced, I agree with some of the other posts that this is not legal. That's an actual invasion of your privacy. Technically your landlord herself should not even be able to come inside the apartment without your permission unless it is to actually evict you for cause.

I am sure this probably differs with different states too but as far as I know most states allow a landlord to come in without expressed permission as long as they gave the proper notice.

You are allowed to inspect your property and do any needed maintenance at any time without a court order.

 

[E-Mursed]

I gave previous tenants 60 days notice on eviction.

You need to look at your states landlord tenant rights - print them off and print off a copy for your landlord. I would also suggest that you take a highlighter and highlight the areas regarding presumed privacy and right to access.

This should educate you on your rights, show your landlord what your rights are, and demonstrate prudence on your part demonstrating your desire to work within the law for both parties.

 

[user 4295]

Are we talking about a condo that you're renting that she owns, but doesn't own the building it's in, or are we talking about an apartment in a building that she owns? If it's a condo then obviously the lease will not extend to the new owner because they are buying the condo unit you're in.

 

[dataz722]

You need to look at your states landlord tenant rights - print them off and print off a copy for your landlord. I would also suggest that you take a highlighter and highlight the areas regarding presumed privacy and right to access.

They should be VERY easy to find on your states website. Some states even require that all landlords give a copy of it to all new tenants when they sign the lease.

 

[idle]

I had problems when I first moved into my apartment with my Landlady's son. He would come over unannounced and expect to come into the apartment to check various things. When I was not cooperative and told him I needed notice and a valid reason before he comes in he started coming when I was not home. More then once I would come home from work and find him down in the apartment looking at the furnace or something. I told him if I caught him in the apartment again I would call the police. For the first almost 2 years I fought and struggled with him and his intrusiveness. It was only through repeated confrontation that I finally got him to back off. Now he calls me at least 24 hours in advance (the law here states 24 hours written notice unless it is an emergency) and I can live with that.

Most people would not have put up with as much **** as I did for as long as I did, but in the end it has worked out thankfully.

 

[mosquitocontrol]

Okay she did it again today. Texted at 11 asking to leave for 12. Ridiculous. Called her back and told her no. She sounded just as frustrated as us.

For now I'm trying to cool off and come up with a list of demands and expectations. Including removal of the lock box and only certain times each week for an open house. Just trying to figure out how many hours a week is reasonable.

 

[dataz722]

Okay she did it again today. Texted at 11 asking to leave for 12. Ridiculous. Called her back and told her no. She sounded just as frustrated as us.

For now I'm trying to cool off and come up with a list of demands and expectations. Including removal of the lock box and only certain times each week for an open house. Just trying to figure out how many hours a week is reasonable.

You won't be able to get them to remove the lockbox. That just isn't going to happen. If she is just as pissed about it as you then tell her that you are going to not let people in without proper notice. Just block the door. That way the lockbox is there but if they don't give you the proper notice no one can possibly get in.

 

[mosquitocontrol]

The other main problem is that it is not the Landlord coming in. Its random real estate agents and strangers. I do not have to voluntarily open my home to them. Just yesterday four different agents left their cards on the table.

 

[DregAddict]

It also may be a problem with how the place is listed on the MLS sheet. When I was shopping for my house, my agent and I went into a couple of houses that were listed as unoccupied and had lockboxes outside only to find people still living in them.

 

[dataz722]

The other main problem is that it is not the Landlord coming in. Its random real estate agents and strangers. I do not have to voluntarily open my home to them. Just yesterday four different agents left their cards on the table.

That is the way it always is. I am pretty sure that with whatever your state requires as proper notice, you do have to let them in.

The key here is whatever your state mandates for notice.

 

[dataz722]

Ok, I am looking up the laws for you. These specifically apply to Boulder, CO but most likely it is the same for the entire state.

PRIVACY

Colorado law implies a covenant of quiet enjoyment, and this protects tenants' privacy in principle. However, enforcement is difficult. A landlord may inspect, do repair work, or show the premises to prospective buyers without notice and at any time if the lease states that the landlord has retained the right to control, re-enter, or repair the premises. To protect this right, a tenant should negotiate with the landlord to include language in the lease assuring privacy and providing some notice in advance.
For example, the Boulder Model Lease spells out terms for entry by the landlord: "Resident shall permit owner/agent to enter the premises at reasonable times and upon reasonable notice for the purpose of making necessary or convenient repairs or reasonable inspections, or to show the premises to prospective residents, purchasers, or lenders. Entry may be made without prior notice only if owner/agent reasonably believes that an emergency exists, such as a fire or broken water pipe, or that the premises have been abandoned."

The City of Boulder Housing Code requires that entry be permitted for reasonable inspections and repairs related to the Housing Code.

If a tenant believes that the landlord is interfering with their right to privacy, the tenant should try to resolve the problem be negotiating an agreement with the landlord regarding entry, including reasons, times, and advance notice required. This negotiation may start with a clear letter identifying the problem. If an agreement cannot be reached the advice of an attorney should be sought or mediation can be requested through the Community Mediation Service.

If a lease provides a landlord the right of entry or the right to retain control of the residence, and the tenant denies entry, the landlord may begin eviction proceedings against the tenant. Threats, intimidation, and continued invasion of a tenant’s privacy need not be tolerated. If intrusions or tensions over showings persist, seek legal advice and mediation.

There are no laws against a tenant replacing locks on the premises if a tenant wishes to prevent unreasonable visits by the landlord. However, the tenant will be liable for any damages, and the landlord can retain from the security deposit the cost for removal of locks. Before a tenant denies entry to a landlord for any reason, an attorney should be consulted.

When Rental Property is Sold

When rental property is sold, the new owner is subject to all rental obligations of the previous owner unless the lease provides otherwise. The new owner may increase the rent or change the other lease terms only upon the expiration date of the existing lease.

So in other words, pull out your lease and see exactly how it is listed on there.

 

[DregAddict]

^^^sounds like you might be SOL. Best thing to do then is not worry about clutter, nakedness, or whatever, and just annoy the **** out of them back.

 

[DregAddict]

Another question is, what happens if one of these unexpected agents and buyers comes by when you're out somewhere and just decides to help themselves to something of yours?

 

[brewingmeister]

Maybe a large angry dog is the answer.

 

[mosquitocontrol]

The first thing I considered was our stuff. That's why I don't want random real estate agents coming over. I have to spend like time everytime picking up all our phones, laptops, bank statements,etc. I live downtown is it really too much to ask to not want the key to my place sitting on the street or at least have a person I know to be accountable during that time? I already have pictures of it with expensive electronics and music equipment plastered on the internet. Isn't that asking for a damn thief.

 

[DregAddict]

I'm wondering if in the very least you have the right to be there in person when the scheduled showings are taking place? Of course that doesn't solve the issue of randoms coming by while you might be out.

 

[TXCrash]

There's a reason that it is YOUR responsibility to READ, UNDERSTAND, and MODIFY your lease prior to moving in.

My landlord is awesome. Doesn't mean I didn't redline the hell out of the lease. No lockbox may be placed on my door (with dogs and a paranoid wife, coupled with my own paranoia... a key to my house on my door would cause fits) , 48 hours notice is required, the deadline for rent due was modified, etc. A reasonable landlord will understand negotiation of lease terms - if they don't, maybe they'll be a pain in the ass landlord.

All that said, read your lease. It sounds like they're almost certainly violating the terms of the lease, which may in itself be grounds for early termination of the lease (state laws vary). Print a copy of the lease, highlight terms which are being violated, and send it to your landlord along with a friendly but firm letter stating that the violations of the lease need to stop.

My lease, before I redlined it and deleted the landlords right to install a lockbox, had a provision for removal of the lockbox for a fee (I think $75). Yours might also have this provision.

In the meantime, enjoy walking around naked.

 

[E-Mursed]

Another simpler way is to have them give you the lockbox combination and tell them that you will hang the box when you are given proper notice for a showing.

That will stop a lot of the desperation showings that are the reason you are being given little to no notice.

 

[Sacdan]

I don't think you have to leave. I have bought and sold Real Estate and unless it is in your lease that you must leave, you shouldn't have to. I wouldn't leave if I was a tenant. I have bought a couple houses that had tenants in it when I went to look at them. They also have to give you notice when they come over. Just say no.

 

[tim2akat2]

A nasty plate in the sink (it belongs there) a turd in the toliet(it belongs there) a hairy shower. You aren't breaking the rules just making it hard on the seller. A few minor things should make the seller come around. You aren't breaking the owners rules hey turds don't always flush and sinks are for dirty dishes if the seller wants you to help out ask them to help out on the rent.

 

[OpenContainer]

Just a thought since you said you enjoy the location......why not get a realtor experienced in short sales and buy it yourself?

 

[gunner65]

You do not have to leave for a showing that is just a courtesy you can sit on your couch or out in the hallway if you want but there is no written rule in how to show a house. I certainly would not leave and I would definitely find a way to bar the door when I was at home. If it were me being the gun totin redneck I am someone opening my door unexpectedly would be greeted with the 12g pump I keep for just such occasions. I doubt it would take long for the word to spread among local realtors and problem would be solved.

 

[pernox]

A nasty plate in the sink (it belongs there) a turd in the toliet(it belongs there) a hairy shower. You aren't breaking the rules just making it hard on the seller. A few minor things should make the seller come around. You aren't breaking the owners rules hey turds don't always flush and sinks are for dirty dishes if the seller wants you to help out ask them to help out on the rent.

...And then the house takes longer to sell, so more walkthroughs happen?

The property owner must provide 24hrs notice unless there is an emergency or you give permission. So stop giving permission. If she gets belligerent, stop paying rent. Then you'll be in violation of the lease, get a day in court, and likely walk away with a voided lease, 30 days to find a new place, and money in your pocket. She, in turn, will have a vacant unit to show at any time she pleases.

Also worth noting - check your laws and lease; why do you always leave when the unit is being shown? Sitting on the couch isn't intrusive to the process.

I say these things as a landlord myself. I wouldn't dream of showing an apartment without permission and proper notice. When I do need to show an apartment, I do all the showings on one day between certain hours. The tenants know and choose whether to stay or go - most prefer to go. Showing them a little courtesy goes a long way to making sure I'm not left with a mess, get all my rent money, and has resulted in filling vacancies with more good tenants via worth of mouth.

-edit-

You do not have to leave for a showing that is just a courtesy you can sit on your couch or out in the hallway if you want but there is no written rule in how to show a house. I certainly would not leave and I would definitely find a way to bar the door when I was at home.

Dude above me got it right.

 

[riverfrontbrewer]

What building are you in?

 

[user 4295]

Are we talking about a condo that you're renting that she owns, but doesn't own the building it's in, or are we talking about an apartment in a building that she owns? If it's a condo then obviously the lease will not extend to the new owner because they are buying the condo unit you're in.

I'm only quoting myself because my post got lost and I don't believe the OP answered it. It's quite relevant to what is being discussed.

 

[dataz722]

I'm only quoting myself because my post got lost and I don't believe the OP answered it. It's quite relevant to what is being discussed.

It actually is irrelevant. No matter what the lease should extend unless specifically stated otherwise in the signed lease.

 

[mosquitocontrol]

Update time:
Saturday brought several texts and want-to be appointments, all with successively less notice. Apparently our request for 24-hours notice was interpreted as 45 minutes. When we held our ground and said no, it was only followed by texts trying to make us feel bad. Aw I'm sorry the people drove an hour to come look at our place... Except for the fact you told your tenants about it after the people were already driving here.

I emailed the landlord today. I proposed 1-2x per week showing for 2 hours. I also reiterated that we have no intention to move without compensation when it sells. Which as I read the law, is the only thing we seem to have protecting us.With this in mind I also asked that she review the listing. I am almost positive it has no mention of tenants, primarily because the last line says MOVE IN READY and she already admitted there was no requirement of appropriate notice time.

I want to make it clear I'm not trying to make this difficult. I just want some respect. I don't intend to leave the place a mess or walk around naked. I want LESS people coming through so this will end sooner and not drive me crazy for 9 more months. I don't want to pull shenanigans and drag this through court. I just want a solution where randoms don't walk in unexpected and I don't get texts from my landlord all week making me want to throw my phone across the room because of how inconsiderate she is.

I've read the lease and it says we need to let them in to do showings. With no mention of reasonable notice time frame. Actually \y it hints that they can come in whenever they want as long as they leave a note in an obvious place. So no help on that front. Colorado law is the same, with the only clear thing being the rollover of the lease to the new owner.

I like to leave when its shown because its a 1bdrm condo and the majority of it is in one room. There's no where to go and I certainly couldn't get anything accomplished while I was there. Sure I could sit on the couch for two hours while randoms walk in and poke through my stuff awkwardly. But I'm almost sure its easier to sell when they don't feel like they're being watched and timed by a tenant.

Also, I do read every single line of the lease before its signed. But in 10 years of renting it hasn't mattered. I've never once been able to get a landlord to modify anything. They always work off some boilerplate lease they refuse to change even though they've probably never read it themselves. I'd love to know your secret of actually getting anything removed.

Its an individually owned condo in a multi-unit building. Not sure how that affects it too much. I would buy it, except for the fact that I just moved across country three months ago, have been unemployed for two years, and have six figures of student loan debt. Even still, the price is so low it would be less then the rent we pay its just not worth the risk right now.

 

[user 4295]

Does the lease allow for the owner to sell it to someone who is buying it with the intention of moving into the unit, or is the new owner wanting to buy it so they can continue to rent it to you?

 

[tdogg]

Im not sure about your states rules, but I doubt the landlord is acting within the law on this one. Try contacting your state attorney generals office for guidance. They helped me alot when i had some similar landlord issues.

 

[dataz722]

Does the lease allow for the owner to sell it to someone who is buying it with the intention of moving into the unit, or is the new owner wanting to buy it so they can continue to rent it to you?

By law they have to at least let him finish the lease.

Im not sure about your states rules, but I doubt the landlord is acting within the law on this one. Try contacting your state attorney generals office for guidance. They helped me alot when i had some similar landlord issues.

I thought the same thing but actually looked up the laws there and unfortunately to only thing that is possibly breaking any law is listing it as "move in ready" but really that is probably just a mistake and not illegal. It does need to be corrected though.

 

[mosquitocontrol]

Does the lease allow for the owner to sell it to someone who is buying it with the intention of moving into the unit, or is the new owner wanting to buy it so they can continue to rent it to you?

This is what I'm concerned about because she has not been clear. Obviously she does not have her crap together. In the email where she notified us she was selling she said:

"the worst/best case scenario however you look at it if it sells before your lease we will break the lease with no penalty and I will try to help you guys get a new place. Im sure there are a few better deals out there for you guys as well. So it could be a good thing all around? "

From the beginning she assumes we will just play nice and move out when the time comes. With no penalty! How generous of her. Not to mention I highly doubt she is going to help with any forms of an apartment search let alone a moving day for previous tenants. That coupled with the move in ready statement on the listing is just plain wrong. I wanted time to look into the lease and laws before contradicting her dream plan.

I am just holding out hope that someone will buy it as an investment property since it is short sale. Then they will magically swoop in and repair all the issues with the unit. And in the end of all this I will get a landlord who is normal. Its nice to dream isn't it?

 

[user 4295]

A lease is a two way street. She is not entitled to "break the lease" any more than you are without consequences. No penalty to you for her breaking the lease? Now that's a laugh! She's a dope, get a lawyer!

 

[mosquitocontrol]

Any idea on how to interpret a subordination clause? My lease states

"This lease is subordinate to existing and future recorded mortgages."
Does that mean I'm back at square one and can be ordered to leave if the new owner wants to move in? Or does this clause just come into play if the bank forecloses?

Newest from the landlord is that someone is putting in an offer. On a short sale I realize this can mean forever. But when asked the landlord said they plan to move in if/when the offer goes through. So I need to figure this crap out soon.

I really don't have money for a lawyer and all free services I've seen are only for low income. I think I've finally dug up all applicable laws, its just a matter of interpreting them.

I'm debating causing a stink with repairs needed in the unit. I doubt she has the funds to put anymore money in the unit and maybe with non-repairs I could make a claim to leave on my terms. One of the five windows in the unit is inoperable and the other four do not move with ease. The lock on the sliding door (3rd floor patio) does not work and instead uses one of those adjustable security bars. But at this point Although I believe these issues if not fixed can get me out due to the Warranty of Habitability Act, I'm afraid I'm just nitpicking trying to find anything I can so I can leave on my terms if it gets out of hand.

I haven't found anything requiring the landlord to disclose that the unit was on the market when the lease was signed so I guess that gets me no where other than showing she is shady.

 

[user 4295]

"This lease is subordinate to existing and future recorded mortgages."

I'm certainly not an attorney, but that reads to me that any lease on the property will be lower in position to existing mortgages(foreclosure, bankruptcy), and future recorded mortgages (new mortgage recorded at time of closing with new owner). There still has to be some kind of protection in your state that would allow you sufficient time to find another place after the sale is closed.

What it sounds like she's saying is that she'd be willing to let you out of the lease early, with no penalty, as soon as you find a place and not wait until the sale. If so, that might be a better deal for you than the inconvenience of having people walking through your home.