Lambic (BOS, 3rd BOS and Two Golds)

[MichaelsBrewing]

Hi.

Personally, I'm not sure... I have always done a clean primary fermentation then introduced the bugs.

 

[LakesideBrewing]

Hey all,

I stopped brewing extract batches back in the mid 90's. Nothing against brewing that way, I just really enjoyed mashing and producing beer from grain. So last year when I was researching how to brew Lambics, I saw this thread. I figured this would be a good recipe for my first Lambic because it would be easy and quick because it was an extract. So 55 weeks ago, I brewed this, stuck it in the corner and forgot about it. Well, this weekend I took my first sample, and to be honest, I wasn't really expecting much. I was wrong. The sample was amazing, it seriously took me by surprise. It completely changed my mind on brewing with extract. I just wanted to post this for any other 'old school', stubborn, grain only brewers out there. Give it a shot, I'm glad I did!

-Mike

 

[TriggerFingers]

So I took half of my batch brewed a year ago with ECY01 Bugfarm and bottled it straight a few weeks back. Took the other half and primed with 100% Black Cherry Juice to make a "faux" Kriek. Man-o-man both are fantastic! The Kriek tastes like a more vibrant Rodenbach! Seriously, some of the best beer I have ever made. Now....I "get" sours...

 

[mitchard]

Just passed my four moth mark on this one. There is a nice pellice forming up now.

I was starting to get antsy, so I went ahead and brewed a few hour sours to keep it company in the spare bedroom. Time to get a pipeline going.

 

[inflictor-of-grimness]

I brewed 5 gallons of this back in November, which is aging on some bugs from previous sours. It's coming along nicely.

Got another 5 gallons of this brewing up today. Going to pitch Bugfarm.

 

[Gus_13]

My second run at this one. Pitched Roeselare, ECY-01, dregs from the Bruery Sans Pagaei and Jolly Pumpkin Bier de Garde. 1.048 down to 1.010 right now and a pH of 3.61. I brewed this on 4-25-15 so it's definitely off to a great start!

Huge tropical notes of mango, papaya and some cherry that finishes with a lemony tartness. Will transfer to secondary soon to let it funk up.

 

[Jumpman]

My second run at this one. Pitched Roeselare, ECY-01, dregs from the Bruery Sans Pagaei and Jolly Pumpkin Bier de Garde. 1.048 down to 1.010 right now and a pH of 3.61. I brewed this on 4-25-15 so it's definitely off to a great start!

Huge tropical notes of mango, papaya and some cherry that finishes with a lemony tartness. Will transfer to secondary soon to let it funk up.

i see you have a night shift glass. i love their beer. i brewed this recipe back in January tasted it the other day. Damn!!!!!!!! this beer is so tasty now i cannot wait to drink it. i think i am going to to either make it into a kriek or i will brew another batch soon and blend. i fermented it with ecy bug county.

 

[IanJ]

Has anyone attempted to primary ferment this in their bottling bucket? I've never wanted to try fermenting in it due to oxygenation fear. Living in a small NYC apartment my space is pretty limited, so having a bunch of dedicated sour/wild vessels isn't possible at the moment.

I've been thinking of brewing this lambic using my bottling bucket for fermenting, then transferring to a dedicated Better Bottle for the long term - then back to that same bottling bucket for bottling. So two items instead of 3 or possibly 4?

FYI I keg most beer now, so the bottling bucket is basically a giant premixed starsan storage container at the moment. I know: He kegs but has no room for more buckets? What? I've maxed this space out and my wife will probably throw me onto the street if I bring more into this place - even if it's for making her favorite beer style

Edit: Also - Going to convert this to a modified AG version because I have enough Great Western 2-Row sitting around. Regular mash, not turbid - just adding Wheat malt to make it a 70/30 split between 2-row and wheat, maybe add 2oz of maltodextrine for extra sugars. Any thoughts on going this route? I may do the extract version to compare if and when I move and have the space.

 

[Zippox]

Has anyone attempted to primary ferment this in their bottling bucket? I've never wanted to try fermenting in it due to oxygenation fear. Living in a small NYC apartment my space is pretty limited, so having a bunch of dedicated sour/wild vessels isn't possible at the moment.

I've been thinking of brewing this lambic using my bottling bucket for fermenting, then transferring to a dedicated Better Bottle for the long term - then back to that same bottling bucket for bottling. So two items instead of 3 or possibly 4?

FYI I keg most beer now, so the bottling bucket is basically a giant premixed starsan storage container at the moment. I know: He kegs but has no room for more buckets? What? I've maxed this space out and my wife will probably throw me onto the street if I bring more into this place - even if it's for making her favorite beer style

Yes you can safely ferment in the bottling bucket and after 30 days transfer to the better bottle for long term fermentation.

 

[Zippox]

Yes you can safely ferment in the bottling bucket and after 30 days transfer to the better bottle for long term fermentation.

That being said, don't use that bottling bucket for any non-sour beers again! Otherwise you'll possibly get bottle bombs. Better to keep sours/non-sours separate in every way.

 

[MeanDeuce]

I might have completely missed it or its assumed in the recipe but I got 2oz aged lambic hops from the LHBS. I assume a 60 min addition is ok for these? How do I calculate IBUs for these? 5 gal batch btw

 

[burninator]

I might have completely missed it or its assumed in the recipe but I got 2oz aged lambic hops from the LHBS. I assume a 60 min addition is ok for these? How do I calculate IBUs for these? 5 gal batch btw

Yes, 60 minute addition. The recipe doesn't list IBU's, but I have to think they're around 5. Basically negligible.

 

[Yourrealdad]

So what are people doing as far as aging to make a gueze with this? I have never blended before.

Are people just keeping them in carboys for the additional years? Kegs? Bottles?

Bottles seems like a pain if you are going to blend later, but I don't know what the effect if any there is for leaving the beer in carboys for 3 years.

P.S. mine are in plastic carboys

 

[C4Brewing]

Is one pack of wyeast and dregs too much for a 5 gallon batch? OP uses just one for 10 gallons and another person said that less is actually better for sour beer

 

[klowneyy]

Is one pack of wyeast and dregs too much for a 5 gallon batch? OP uses just one for 10 gallons and another person said that less is actually better for sour beer

No you are fine with using more than one packet of yeast and dregs. As for the less yeast the better for sours? I've never heard of that. In my experience more is better. The oginal poster uses dregs from jolly pumpkin and they use Brett in most of their beers. Brett eats dead yeast so in that case the more yeast the better for the Brett. If you are pitching dregs into primary you will need to build them up before pitching if in secadary you can just add them right in.

 

[klowneyy]

Is one pack of wyeast and dregs too much for a 5 gallon batch? OP uses just one for 10 gallons and another person said that less is actually better for sour beer

No you are fine with using more than one packet of yeast and dregs. As for the less yeast the better for sours? I've never heard of that. In my experience more is better. The oginal poster uses dregs from jolly pumpkin and they use Brett in most of their beers. Brett eats dead yeast so in that case the more yeast the better for the Brett. If you are pitching dregs into primary you will need to build them up before pitching if in secadary you can just add them right in. If added in primary the Brett is be more of a clean taste and if added into secadary is where brett adds the most funk

 

[klowneyy]

So what are people doing as far as aging to make a gueze with this? I have never blended before.

Are people just keeping them in carboys for the additional years? Kegs? Bottles?

Bottles seems like a pain if you are going to blend later, but I don't know what the effect if any there is for leaving the beer in carboys for 3 years.

P.S. mine are in plastic carboys

You are fine leaving the wort in your carboy for a few years plastic or glass just make sure to check on the beer through out the months and keep an eye on the airlock levels. They can run low and get an infection and nothing like waiting 2 years and forgetting to check the water level in your airlock and have to dump it.

 

[Zippox]

You are fine leaving the wort in your carboy for a few years plastic or glass just make sure to check on the beer through out the months and keep an eye on the airlock levels. They can run low and get an infection and nothing like waiting 2 years and forgetting to check the water level in your airlock and have to dump it.

I had to dump half of mine due to a dried up airlock. CHECK THE AIRLOCK are great words to live by.

I let the beer go for two years and did a really good job getting on top of filling up the air locks. Then all of a sudden it kept drying up. Like after days. I was a fool and didn't replace the airlock immediately (later found it was cracked). Bottled the beer and it tasted pretty terrible and I also over-carbed it (gushers) so it was a no-brainer to dump.

 

[BigTerp]

Going to give this one a try in the next few weeks. Been a few years since I've done an extract batch, and they were all with LME which I would add at less than 15 minutes, some even at flameout. What is the best practice when using DME? Same as LME by adding <15 minutes in the boil?

Also, I'm planning on primarying (is that even a word?) with Wyeast Lambic blend or maybe something from ECY. But I want to add some dregs from my favorite sours to my carboy for bulk aging. If I am drinking a few beers here and there, what is the best way to save the dregs for later? Just in a sterilized container in the fridge like regular ale yeast? Can I keep adding more dregs on top of other dregs in the sterilized container? Or should I store each of the dregs separately?

 

[armedcor]

Going to give this one a try in the next few weeks. Been a few years since I've done an extract batch, and they were all with LME which I would add at less than 15 minutes, some even at flameout. What is the best practice when using DME? Same as LME by adding <15 minutes in the boil?

Also, I'm planning on primarying (is that even a word?) with Wyeast Lambic blend or maybe something from ECY. But I want to add some dregs from my favorite sours to my carboy for bulk aging. If I am drinking a few beers here and there, what is the best way to save the dregs for later? Just in a sterilized container in the fridge like regular ale yeast? Can I keep adding more dregs on top of other dregs in the sterilized container? Or should I store each of the dregs separately?

You need some extract for the boil you could do half at the beginning and add half in the last 15 mins. I just create a litre starter and drop dregs in as I drink the bottles.

 

[TriggerFingers]

Down to my last bottle. So this spent 2 months in primary, another year in secondary. Wish I would have oaked it but oh well. Split the batch. Bottled half straight, the other half primed with black cherry juice making a faux kriek. Both were great. Tasted next to The Rare Barrel's "Err on the Side of Awesome" and this was very similar, but better. Straight batch won all taste tests. Will brew again just like last before with ECY01 Bugfarm. Fantastic!

 

[Yeroc]

Down to my last bottle. So this spent 2 months in primary, another year in secondary. Wish I would have oaked it but oh well. Split the batch. Bottled half straight, the other half primed with black cherry juice making a faux kriek. Both were great. Tasted next to The Rare Barrel's "Err on the Side of Awesome" and this was very similar, but better. Straight batch won all taste tests. Will brew again just like last before with ECY01 Bugfarm. Fantastic!

TriggerFingers,
Can you share a little more information about your portion primed with black cherry juice? How many gallons of Lambic did you bottle with the juice, and how much juice did you use for priming? Do you have a guess as to your volume of CO2?

Thanks!

 

[Yeroc]

I'm planning to brew this tomorrow but curious about something. Since this is an all extract recipe and there really isn't a hop additions schedule, can I get away with a 30 minute boil instead of a full 60 minutes? Is there a reason to go a full 60?

I couldn't find aged hops at either of my LHBS locations so I'm planning on one non-aged hop addition at the start of the boil to hit around 10 IBUs. I've read this can be a viable option since I'm pitching yeast and bugs (and dregs) rather than doing a true spontaneous fermentation.

The 10 gallons will be split into 2 x 5 gallon batches. I only have 1 smack pack of Wyeast 3278 for one 5 gallon batch at the moment. For the other batch I might pickup White Labs Sour 1 or just start the ferment with a neutral ale yeast. Then wait until Wyeast 3278 is back in stock at the LHBS and pitch it into secondary.... Or rack my sour Scottish ale experiment into a new carboy and use that yeast cake full of various dregs. Any thoughts on this second batch?

Thanks for any input you might have!

 

[klowneyy]

I can't really help with any input on the extract part since I've never done extract brewing. But I can help with your yeast question and ibu's. I don't recommend getting your ibu's up to 10. Lactobacillus is susceptible to even 1-2 ibu's and could make the lacto stall. That's why they recommend aged hops. I would only dry hop at this point and don't worry about hops in the boil. Also as for your yeast question I suggest waiting a few days to try and grow the yeast up to ensure you have a good,strong, healthy fermentation. I would take some dme and make a starter of 1.040 wort pitch your yeast/bugs in and wait a few days. Also I suggest after you are done with your fermentation refill the carboys with more wort and let the yeast cake do its thing again. Should ferment and sour faster than last batch.

 

[Yeroc]

Thanks for the feedback, Klowneyy. I wasn't comfortable not using hops. So last Sunday evening, I brewed up two 5 gallon batches (my system can't do one 10 gallon boils). Basically I just divided the 10 gallon recipe down the middle for the two batches.

Batch 1 was hopped to 9.5 IBUs. The yeast/bugs pitched were Wyeast 3278 and dregs from Jolly Pumpkin Bam Biere & Biere De Mars.

Batch 2 was hopped to 11 IBUs. The yeast/bugs pitched were WLP Sour 1 and dregs from Jolly Pumpkin Bam Biere & Biere De Mars. [All the bottles these dregs were pulled from where several years old so I'm not sure how viable they are.]

Some of the pellet hops used were old, leftovers from my freezer that were purchased for a series of Scottish shilling ales that I made at the start of 2015. Not sure how quickly the IBUs of pellet hops drop off, but maybe they were a bit lower than when originally purchased. Either way, the die is cast. If the lacto can't handle the IBUs, I'll hope that the pedio picks up the slack.

The start of fermentation began in my foyer while I was out of town this last week. When I returned home last night (Saturday), I found the thermometer strip on both buckets read 64. So that temperature probably didn't help the lacto either. The house is warming up now and the temp on the buckets is 68. By tomorrow the temp should be around 70.

In about a month, I'll do what AmandaK did and rack into carboys for the long haul. At that time, I'll probably add some more dregs from sour beers that are a bit fresher than the original dregs I added. It's a good excuse to purchase more sours, right?

 

[dbhammel]

Are there any issues doing this as a partial boil?

 

[Yeroc]

Are there any issues doing this as a partial boil?

If you mean a short boil, I hope it's ok since this recipe is all DME and maltodextrin. I did a 30 minute boil.

 

[NibblesMN]

I made a batch tonight. I used Yeast Bay Melange for the critters, and Hersbrucker hops. I had to add some Fuggles (that I had leftover) @20 min to get the IBUs where I wanted because I didn't math well.

 

[Yeroc]

I rack both Batch 1 & 2 into 5 gallon carboys for long term aging. Some details and then a question...

Batch 1: I racked this onto the yeast cake of a 5 gallon Sour Scottish Ale experiment I've got going. That means that along with the original Wyeast 3278 & dregs (Jolly Pumpkin Bam Biere & Biere De Mars), it now has bugs from The Bruery Hottenroth, Eagle Rock Yearly, Jolly Pumpkin Oro de Calabaza, Oud Beersel Oude Geuze Vieille and Logsdon Seizoen Bretta working on it. It also got 0.5 ounces of new medium oak cubes and I left the 0.5 ounces of used oak cubes that were in the Scottish Sour.

Batch 2: At racking this batch received 0.5 ounces of new medium oak cubes and additional dregs. Along with the original yeast & dregs (same starting mix as batch 1), batch 2 now has bugs from Crooked Stave Surette, Jolly Pumpkin Madrugada Obscura & Dark Dawn Stout.

I assume a year from now these two batches, that were started on the same day, will be somewhat different in taste & aroma due to the differing bug loads. We'll see.

Here's a question I have. There is a good amount of head space in the two 5 gallon carboys. The beer level in both is right where the carboy starts to slope. Should I be concerned about head space and consider brewing up a 2 gallon extract Lambic to use for topping off the carboys? Or should I not worry about that head space?

 

[beer_blogger]

I brewed a 5 gallon batch using this recipe back in July of 2015, wort that was primary fermented in my plastic bucket, yielded 4 gallons of fermented beer and split it into 4, 1 gallon batches for secondary. Batch 1 was plain, 2 was aged on 2 lbs of black raspberries, 3 aged with 1 lb of chokecherries and 1 lb black raspberries, 4 was aged plain but with a lot of trub. It has been 7 months now and the plain batches taste amazing! Very Brett forward and complex, smooth up front with strong Brett towards the end of the taste with a funky brett and hops aftertaste. The batches aged with the fruit still need more time to age out some of the sharper flavors, but I am very excited to see what happens with this in the next year or so!