Lagunitas sells to Heineken , another good brewery sells their soul to corpor...

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Singletrack said:
I don't blame successful brewers for taking a big pay day, if that's what they think they want. But...


1. I think it is naïve to suggest that this trend will not change the craft beer landscape. It seems reasonable to think that no one would buy a successful craft brewery and then ruin it with changes, but have you ever worked for a large corporation? When some know-nothing middle manager suggests a stupid change that saves a little money, who is going to stop him? How many times can these pinheads be stopped before changes must happen? Then, when the people with the passion decide to leave over it, we get meh beer that no one really cares about.


2. The big boys don't fight fair. To them, beer is business, and business is about making money. If destroying everyone else makes more money, then prepare to be destroyed. One of the things I like about small craft brewers is that their passion for the beer is more important to them than their desire to make money in any way that could be viewed as unfriendly to their peers. That's going away.


The business of business is business. I understand that, but I'm still saddened about the possibility of good beer packaged in green bottles with black and white stripes.
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hit the nail on the head . cheers brother
 
Singletrack said:
I don't blame successful brewers for taking a big pay day, if that's what they think they want. But...


1. I think it is naïve to suggest that this trend will not change the craft beer landscape. It seems reasonable to think that no one would buy a successful craft brewery and then ruin it with changes, but have you ever worked for a large corporation? When some know-nothing middle manager suggests a stupid change that saves a little money, who is going to stop him? How many times can these pinheads be stopped before changes must happen? Then, when the people with the passion decide to leave over it, we get meh beer that no one really cares about.


2. The big boys don't fight fair. To them, beer is business, and business is about making money. If destroying everyone else makes more money, then prepare to be destroyed. One of the things I like about small craft brewers is that their passion for the beer is more important to them than their desire to make money in any way that could be viewed as unfriendly to their peers. That's going away.


The business of business is business. I understand that, but I'm still saddened about the possibility of good beer packaged in green bottles with black and white stripes.
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1. Yes I have. I have worked for a successful company that was bought and sold a few times by bigger companies. Typically what happens is that the only change is that another top level of management changes, but the core company stays the same. There is a reason we were bought; we were very successful. They didn't buy us to change us, they bought us because they looked who we already were. As an aside: don't every marry someone because you like who they might become - marry them because you like who they already are...

2. It is more profitable for the big guys to buy craft brewers than to spend money trying to destroy the craft competition. The big brewers are passionate about beer too; i know this because i work with someone who was an apprentice brewer at a Miller and Budweiser plant. There are more people who think Miller and Budweiser taste good than people who think Old Rasputin or DFH90 or Westvletern 14 taste good. BMC aren't trying to make 'bad' beers, they are trying to meet a market demand. I have heard that at Budweiser the most important characteristic of a beer is 'drinkability'; i.e. do you want to have another after the one you just finished. As much as i might enjoy a IIPA or Imperial Stout or some other 'crafty' beer, they are not 'drinkable' by Budweiser standards.

I am willing to wager that you think the government is out to screw the average citizen too...
 
Callacave said:
Excellent write up by Chris Herron. Gives a deeper perspective into why AB Inbev is going in this direction.

I get tired of people just throwing up the... 'If someone through millions at me I'd take the money and run too!' Of course we would, but anybody that truly cares about the industry can find some great insight in this article.

http://goodbeerhunting.com/blog/2017/5/5/watch-the-hands-not-the-cards-the-magic-of-megabrew
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Sharing this from the AB bought WW thread. Everyone should read this and the point made above I agree with, BMC or otherwise they all care about beer .. some may be more passionate then you would have ever thought
 
meh, they can buy what they want, something new tends to spring up.

At least heineken is no where near as nasty as inbev in their distribution strategies.
 
Norselord said:
1. Yes I have... don't every marry someone because you like who they might become...

2. It is more profitable for the big guys to buy craft brewers than to spend money trying to destroy the craft competition.

3. I have heard that at Budweiser the most important characteristic of a beer is 'drinkability'

4. I am willing to wager that you think the government is out to screw the average citizen too...
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1. I said this trend will change the craft beer landscape, so I guess you're saying it won't. Time will tell, but if you're looking for a wager...
...and don't tell me who or why to marry. :)

2. Sure, but that misses the point. They are going to both acquire and destroy competition.

3. A focus on "drinkability" is what led to decades of nothing but tasteless lager in the U.S. With the craft buyout trend, we will get the beer that appeals to the masses, and if a small minority want something different, that's tough -- not profitable enough. Not saying it will be all light lagers again anytime soon, but choices will dwindle.

4. Political. Reported. :) Well, my response would be political, so I can't respond properly, but you're way off base. Like most people, I'm complicated. It's best not to judge too quickly ...because it's judgment that defeats us.

Black and white stripes? Nothing?
 
BigEd said:
No, Heineken is their own company and not a part of InBev or SAB/Miller or whatever the current conglomeration is.
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yeah its to much to keep straight of which company is buying which company now days. I could do an internet search but honestly I knew somebody would know on here.:mug:
 
skunk.png
 
It's not like they sold for chump change. Also heni has been 49% owner for like 5 years, they finally just sealed the deal and bought the rest.
 
My thoughts on this is "who cares?" If you do not like their business decision, then do not patronize them.

There's just too many local breweries in my area now that when Devil's Backbone "sold out" to InBev, then I decided to stop buying their products. I prefer to support my local breweries (I buy too many products from Amazon and other out-of-state Internet companies that I feel compelled to buy local when it comes to beers :D).

When I visited Asheville last year, Wicked Week was one of my favorite stops. I probably will not visit them if I ever visit Asheville again. But then again it is not like we do not have plenty of choices. There were so many good breweries there that I did not visit because they were "too far" from the downtown area.

I have not bought a Lagunitas beer in a long time for the same reason - too many choices. I used to like their Wild Sumpin' and Brown Shugga. Probably will not buy from them anymore unless I need to have a beer and that's all the bar has.
 
I'm with you. I think big beer can make craft products. Microbreweries can make plain lagers and lite beer.

The venting about entrepreneurs cashing out to big companies that want to acquire the business they built. . . please. That's the point behind starting the business and growing it. If you're just interested in the art, then be content with home brewing.



Sammy86 said:
You know every time I see threads like this one thing comes to mind...you're basically saying that someone who started a business from the ground up isn't entitled to a life changing pay day...who are we to judge?

Are you honestly telling me that if you owned a business and someone approached you to buy your business with an offer that basically sets up your family for generations you wouldn't take it?

It's like people giving the owner of Ballast Point crap for taking the deal of 1 billion dollars. What we seem to forget is that beer is still a business...the object is to make money and the opportunity presented itself and he made the deal...who cares if you're not going to buy their beer anymore?

There are currently 5,300 breweries here in the states...you're really trying to tell me me that the sale of this one craft brewery is going to hurt the craft beer movement? Please, the craft beer movement is doing just fine and another brewery will step in its place.
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I live down the street and know the brewery very well. Tony McGee will still operate Lagunitas and still design future beers but now under Heineken. Their goal is to create a "craft beer" division, which will be under Lagunitas for worldwide distribution. They mainly just operate out of Petaluma, CA and Boston right now with more in he works in Europe, potentially Amsterdam.

But it is sad to see a small local brewery grow so large and be bought out by a corporation as large as Heineken. C'est la vie!

At least we still have Russian River Brewing Company :mug:
 
I think it's time to admit that the "craft beer" label has been co-opted into something that very few of us actually mean.

I prefer "independent brewer". Pretty much says what it means. "Craft" now embodies what those expressing remorse of the big boys buying all of "our" brewers are getting at. If that describes you (as it does me) then "Independent" brewers are what we should be supporting.
 
everybody has a price. if a beer is good, drink it. if everytime i stopped drinking my favorite beer because they "sold out", i would be drinking piss.

congrats to lagunitas. stopped drinking their **** way back when they threatened to sue sierra nevada after the hop hunter debauchle.
 
Kinda strange when Lagunitas was basically founded on sticking it to the man and being rebels. However, big stinkin' deal, this is just another reason to homebrew! I'm more interested in all the local breweries opening up. In my area (Temecula, Murrieta, it's just north of San Diego if anyones curious) there have been a good amount of breweries opening up in the last couple years and even some taprooms. So all is well in the world of craft and homebrew will never die.
 
I find it interesting reading the posts by people who aren't concerned by this. InBev wiped out craft beer in Belgium and England, destroyed the livelihoods of thousands involved in breweries and pubs and left generations drinking fizzy yellow water and brainwashed by marketing. USA is next. Luckily you have Stone, and Brewdog now too, and they won't go down without a fight, so maybe this time can be different?
 
Another one of these threads....yawn

I guess those against it have:

Never had Taco Bell and only buy from the guy on the corner
Never had Burger King and only eat at "craft burger" joints
Never been to a single big box store
And NEVER not even once bought something online to save money including homebrew stuff

Re....Tard....ed
 
JakeSparrow said:
Kinda strange when Lagunitas was basically founded on sticking it to the man and being rebels. However, big stinkin' deal, this is just another reason to homebrew! I'm more interested in all the local breweries opening up. In my area (Temecula, Murrieta, it's just north of San Diego if anyones curious) there have been a good amount of breweries opening up in the last couple years and even some taprooms. So all is well in the world of craft and homebrew will never die.
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InBev already bought the biggest home brew supplier in USA! They know what they are doing.
 
malhal said:
I find it interesting reading the posts by people who aren't concerned by this. InBev wiped out craft beer in Belgium and England, destroyed the livelihoods of thousands involved in breweries and pubs and left generations drinking fizzy yellow water and brainwashed by marketing. USA is next. Luckily you have Stone, and Brewdog now too, and they won't go down without a fight, so maybe this time can be different?
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And it's not that Heineken is considered "good" in their home country, of even "okay drinkable"...
Become too big and you'll become what you feared when you were small.
 
Personally I've not liked 95% of the Lagunitas brews I've tasted. To each his own. I do like most of the output from Wicked Weed. (except IPAs - not just theirs, just about any fail to appeal to me except classic British IPAs) In the WW case as I understand it the same guys will be running operations and devising recipes for the foreseeable future, and it's them that I trust. From what was posted above in this thread it appears the same will apply to Lagunitas.

In a couple years we may see slippage if the creative team changes, or there's a push from the 'top' to save money or something, but in the meantime I expect their product to stay the same, and potentially improve since they have such deep pockets supporting them and can pay more attention to brewing/blending and less to the business/financing side of things.

Also it's worth noting that at least the WW-Inbev deal is still pending regulatory approval, (from the FTC I assume) even though many references (including ratebeer.com) already list them as an Inbev subsidiary.

j
 
Scturo said:
List of breweries who have Sold Out, either partially or entirely. Feel free to add any missed

Ballast Point
Goose Island
Golden Road
Lagunitas
Wicked Weed
Elysian
10Barrel
Hop Valley
Terrapin
Revolver
St Archer
Firestone Walker
Ommegang
Boulevard
Founders (30% Sold)
Brooklyn Brewery (24.5% Sold)
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Blue Point Brewing
Breckenridge Brewery
Devil's Backbone
Four Peaks Brewing
Karbach
Virtue Cider
 
I see this and other acquisitions as a huge victory.
When I was a kid taking that first sip of Narragansett when my dad opened a can -- that was the definition of a craft beer. And then even they went out of business. Through high school it was Bud and all that pee water. The Dark Ages.
Then came real craft brews.
What these kinds of acquisitions tell me is that real beer has made a comeback.
These little guys who started breweries after being reacquainted with real beer from Europe have, over the years, proven the market to the behemoths. The little guys created the market. And now they've good the big guys' attention. $1B? Cock-a doodle-doo!
 
If the quality remains and distribution is increased what's the problem? Blue Point, Ballast, Goose, Ommegang, Founders, Brooklyn - all making fantastic beers still, and now they have the resources to be more experimental. I can get Ommegang and Founders at Target now. I'm not going to complain.
 
Eh, whatever. It's their business, they can do what they want. However, consolidation (voluntary and otherwise) was what nearly eradicated independent brewing back in the day. The independent smaller brewers were all like "we're doing our own thing!" but now are acting like they don't remember history.
 
So how soon before I can start complaining that their beer doesn't taste as good now? If I buy a Lagunitas sixer this week, would anyone believe me if i said it's changed? How long should I wait before playing that card?
 
The issue for me with these buy-outs isn't whether the quality of the beer at X will suffer, it's that these giants will gain more control of the craft beer market with shelf space and distribution and will make it damn near impossible for the smaller, real craft brewers to have a chance. Once that happens, get ready for the cost cutting and quality shaving - that's what corps live for. Say hello to Clydesdale p*ss in a different can.
 
pepindavid said:
Do you hold yourselves to the same high standard for every consumer item you buy? You bread, where do you buy your bread? At the local bakery only? You surely wouldn't support a big national bakery, would you? And your meat? Only at local butchers, who only buy local small sustainable farms, right? And you never buy anything from Procter and Gamble, do you? And never anything from Pepsi Co, Coca-Cola, or Nesté, right?
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well actually I bake all my own bread, hardly ever buy from those companies sited and a lot of our meat IS from local farmers who raise the animals, so... I also roast coffee and brew beer etc.

But I agree with your point, sort of. I resist buying from "Big Beer" because they are the ones who fought the craft beer movement and actively bought and trashed smaller breweries all over the US and Europe. They may be better players today but they have a bad track record to live down.

I personally like Lagunitas and won't stop buying in protest but I will probably opt for an alternative given the option. I don't hold it against the founder, but now that it isn't a small craft brewery I also don't feel the need to support them.

I am not doing this because I am morally superior but because I believe in supporting craft breweries and Lagunitas just became part of a mega corporate brewery so they don't qualify. I will buy them periodically because they remind me of where I grew up, but only as long as the quality is there, kind of goes with out saying.

I suspect that the new trent to buy up craft breweries is more about protecting market share and they will keep the quality up. The danger really to the craft market is that the big boys can buy ingredients for a fraction of the costs a small brewery can. So IF big beer picks up a bunch of craft breweries and starts pushing the price lower it will make it harder for the small guys to break even. Also if they expand the "craft" brands they may start grabbing up supplies that the craft brewers use that big yellow fizzy water breweries don't. If nobody but say Lagunitas can get their hands on Citra because Heineken bout it all up that is a problem.

So the potential for problems is not nonexistent. Inbev started buying the big homebrew stores so...

We will see but expecting corporations to act responsibly is turning a blind eye to, well the entire history of corporations.
 
JONNYROTTEN said:
Another one of these threads....yawn

I guess those against it have:

Never had Taco Bell and only buy from the guy on the corner
Never had Burger King and only eat at "craft burger" joints
Never been to a single big box store
And NEVER not even once bought something online to save money including homebrew stuff

Re....Tard....ed
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Kind of an Apples and Oranges, at least for big box and on-line, since they are resellers not makers.

The fast food chains you mention are actually really awful, I mean just about unspeakably bad. Yes I have eaten at them over the years, convenience has won out at times. But the last time at Taco Bell I got food poisoning and Burger King just smells like chemicals, probably the dye they use to paint on the phony grill lines. Whatever it was I had to throw it out. Now In and Out that is a different story.

But if you really want to make your point you need to have an example of a small successful brand that got bought by a mega corporation. Ben & Jerry's comes to mind. And yes I will buy there ice cream.
 
We Home Brewers on HOMEBREWtalk continue to help each other out, making our 5 and 10 gallon batches and beaming with pride as our friends - getting our free beer - say, “this is is the best beer I’ve ever tasted … you should open a brewery!”. We wistfully look up at the stars and think about the realities of this … can I do it? … can I quit my job and risk everything? … can I really make it in this ever growing market? And, in the end, we go back to our 5 gallon batches, happy and secure in knowing that our small market of friends will continue to be supplied with our best product and we will be safe in our low-risk home-brew hobby.

However, there are those who have taken the risks, aimed high, got kicked in the nuts (or other, gender unspecific area of the body on which would hurt tremendously upon being kicked), gathered their wits, hit their marks, and succeeded - not only in the very difficult task of making high-quality, consistent beers, but in the much more difficult and enigmatic task of turning a quality product into a successful business - the task that terrifies most of us to the point where we will never take this leap! I think it’s appropriate to give these folks their due and applaud their success. Well done! I’m too chicken-$hit to make that leap myself, but am encouraged to see that sometime, the little guy can make it big.

The controversy comes when in "making it big”, you become the big - and therefore, the antithesis of what we were all hoping you would become - funny. I realize that the “big” have used the system and the established practices of the “big” to get “bigger” - a goal in a capitalistic society. While there are certainly valid concerns with the impact on the remaining "little guys" with these practices. I do have a bigger problem with us rooting for the little guy until he makes it and then turning on him on a dime to say that now he just doesn’t understand the folks that got him there. Complete and utter BS.

So, congrats Tony! I’ve enjoyed a good Hop Stoopid from time to time and will continue to do so. If they make you put it in a light green bottle to skunk it up a bit, perhaps I won’t. My choice - for now.

peace
 
curtisbrewer said:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/dinin...-sale-tony-magee-heineken-20170504-story.html

After reading lagunitas story , I will never buy one of the beers again , started on more then a dozen failed batches ... then sold to a corporation , sometimes money and greed makes me sick to my stomach. Some people just don't want to grow craft beer , there wallet means way more to them. I hope he regrets it in ten years.
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I just watched a documentary on Netflix last night on Heineken. I always thought Heineken was brewed in Holland and imported around the world. After watching the documentary and seeing that they broke land in Africa, Czech Republic, China, Scotland, The UK, Vietnam, and others to open breweries to mass distribute, I just don't feel the same way about them. I lost my respect for Heineken. They are just another mega brewery that favors quantity and profitability over creativity and advancing the craft. Now that I hear that Lagunitas just sold out, I won't be purposefully drinking their beers either. Another one bites the dust.
 
So I was at a Mellow Mushroom the other day and they had PBR on tap and just for the hell of it I tried one. I hadn't had one in years so I figured why not. To my surprise it was quite good! Sorta reminded me of a helles that I had recently brewed. A couple of months ago I got a Miller Lite and enjoyed it too. Hey, if somebody offered me big $$ for one (or all) of my recipes I wouldn't even have to think about it..........and occasionally it might be good for us craft beer nerds to retry some of the so called "macro sh*t beers" that we grew up on. It kinda takes me back to the good ole days. And honestly, some of them just ain't that bad! Cheers!
 
Has this sale been in the works for awhile? I thought for sure I read about this actually happening 1-2 years ago. Perhaps it was another brewery buyout but I thought for sure it was Lagunitas. The founder said that the beer recipes will not change and that the benefit of the sale was broader distribution opportunities for Lagunitas.

While it is disappointing broadly speaking, so long as they don't change the recipes I'll still consider it one of my favorite brands. I really like their Imperial Stout and have now just discovered their seasonal Undercover Investigation Shut-Down as one of my favorites. I can't say that I'd boycott them but it's disappointing for craft beer in general.

Edit: Looks like what I read back then is when Lagunitas sold the initial 50% of the company to Heineken.
 
curtisbrewer said:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/dinin...-sale-tony-magee-heineken-20170504-story.html

After reading lagunitas story , I will never buy one of the beers again , started on more then a dozen failed batches ... then sold to a corporation , sometimes money and greed makes me sick to my stomach. Some people just don't want to grow craft beer , there wallet means way more to them. I hope he regrets it in ten years.
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It's so easy to talk bs from the outside, where you have nothing to lose and owe nothing to your investors, your family, etc.

I'd love to see you having the same opportunity to sell and not doing it because of your love for all of us. Lets stop the crap!!
 
While I am all for business owners doing what they will with THEIR company, I would shed a tear if Rogue ever sold out. I don't buy it too often, but it got me on the road to brewing my own.
 
I'm kind of in the same boat as Scturo and Sammy86 - "Good for them, hope the quality stays." In my opinion the economic pressures on brewers (like, since the 1300's) have pushed for a larger profit margin (i.e. less expensive process and/or materials), which has given many distinctive products a more generic and even more watered-down character over time. At the same time, I think anyone who can start a business and take it global amidst so much competition should be proud of the achievement. I don't know anyone personally that works there; I wonder what they think of it?
 
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