Lagunita's Aunt Sally Sour Mash Clone?

[TwoHeart]

Anyone have an extract recipe for this?

I absolutely love this brew. According to their site, they add lactobacillus to the mash. But, it's my understanding that this can be added to a boil as well with similar results. I'm assuming they use some pale malt. I'm trying to figure out how much lactobacillus to use, and what hops at what schedule. Their site just says they use a **** load of different hops.

 

[microbusbrewery]

Lactobacillus is a bacteria; if you add it to the boil, it'll kill it. Are you thinking of lactic acid? You can dose it with food grade lactic acid but IMO it results in a very one dimensional sour character compared to souring with bacteria.

Take a look at sour worting or kettle souring. There are tricks to doing it right, ensuring you don't end up with something that smells like a garbage can left out in the summer sun. Basically you'll sour before the boil. When the pH gets where you want it, proceed with your boil, adding hops that would normally suppress lactic acid production if you tried to sour post-boil.


Re the grain bill, there doesn't seem to be much info out there yet. I had it at a beer fest earlier this year but I don't remember specifics on color. I'd try to ballpark the color, add a little crystal for some residual sweetness and see how it stacks up. Probably ferment with a clean ale yeast like US05.

 

[LordHafen]

I too am interested in creating something close I understand the concept of sour kettleing, but am looking for a grain bill and dry hop additions, anyone made an attempt yet?

 

[J2W2]

Hi,

I was going to ask the same question, but I thought I'd resurrect this post instead. It's been six months since it was posted - has anyone attempted this yet?

The Lagunitas website does not provide any information to go on, other than the ABV (5.7), OG (1.058) and IBU (33). Craft Beer & Brewing has an article in their October-November issue on various ways to sour a beer. I'm leery of introducing Lactobacillus into my equipment, so I was thinking of trying a lactic acid addition.

I've currently got a gallon of an IPA left in a keg. The specs are fairly close to Aunt Sally's. My IBU should have started around 77, but it's really mellowed as it aged, so I'm thinking it may be close to 33 now. I was thinking of getting a bottle of lactic acid and experimenting with a little in a glass of my IPA, just to see what that comes out like.

My IPA was dry hopped with Ahtanum, Amarillo and Simcoe; I have no idea how that compares to what's used in Aunt Sally. My IPA used amber and golden LME, with about 3% Crystal 60L. That's about all I have to go on right now.

So again, has anyone attempted this clone yet, or does anyone have any additional advice on trying to create one?

Thanks for your help!

 

[DaWhip]

I'm leery of introducing Lactobacillus into my equipment, so I was thinking of trying a lactic acid addition.

I would recommend going with the bug instead of the additive to get a much better flavor. If you do the kettle sour in your actual boil kettle, you won't have anything to worry about since you are going to boil the crap out of it anyway.

I had a sixer of this a few weeks ago, from memory, this would be my stab in the dark at a starting place for an all-grain clone. Start simple, Brew a gallon, taste, and adjust where needed. I kinda picked those malts because I know they are available as extracts too, so you could convert and give it a shot that way.

5 Gal recipe:
8.5lb (75%) Pilsner
3lb (25%) Munich or Vienna
Mash, sparge into kettle, cool to lacto temp, add lacto. Start boil when it has about the same tartness as the real deal.
1oz Simcoe 60min
1oz of Citra at flameout
WLP001 at the bottom of the temp range
Dry Hop if needed

I'm sure that is far from perfect, but should be tasty and at least in the ballpark.

 

[DaWhip]

J2W2, I just read the rest of your post regarding the hops. I would still suggest bittering with the simcoe, but swap what I said above for the hops in your IPA. Whatever you did dryhopped, split it in half and do half at flameout and half dryhopped. I don't have any experience with ahtanum, but the amarillo and simcoe will go well together and fit what i vaguely remember about Aunt Sally. You could throw a touch of crystal 20 in the recipe too and it probably wouldn't hurt anything, but I don't remember any caramel at all in there and would avoid driving the sugars up any more.

 

[DaveSquared]

I'm in the middle of trying my hand a clone of this. My wife loves aunt Sally so I'm trying to get the recipe down. Here's my first batch so far. Kept it simple to get a base

10lbs 2-row
2lbs white wheat

Mash at 150

Kettle soured with some uncrushed grains

Brought to a boil for about 5 minutes, then added hops.

1.5oz Citra at FO
1.5oz mosaic at FO
1.5oz Citra DH
1.5oz Mosaic DH

Used US-05 at 67°

It's cold crashing right now. I'll have it kegged in about a week and post an update.

 

[DaWhip]

Cool. How did you go about the kettle sour? Monitor PH or go by taste?

 

[DaveSquared]

Just by taste, I don't brew many sours so a pH meter is last on the list for upgrades. I think I soured it for about 36 hours.

 

[NHBrews]

Cool. How did you go about the kettle sour? Monitor PH or go by taste?

I'm drinking a Aunt Sally right now. Not nearly as tart as the Gose/Berliners I've brewed via kettle souring method (inoculated with grain, held at 110F). I've brought those to a 3.5-3.6ph at 70F prior to boil. I would think this beer is more in the 3.8 area.

I think Sarachi Ace might work well in a clone... i'm getting a lot of lemon in this one. Thinking Amarillo and Sarachi could work nice.

I'm going to try to clone this one in a couple months for spring. I think I'll cool to 190F or so before adding hops as bitter and sour don't work well together.

 

[J2W2]

Ok, as an extract brewer, I'm trying to follow along here. When you talk about kettle souring with grain, are you talking (and this is from the Craft Beer & Brewing article) adding an unmashed base grain that contains Lactobacillus, or adding an acidulated malt? I assume an extract recipe could use the unmashed base grain but not an acidulated malt?

NHBrews, could you clarify a little on the

I think I'll cool to 190F or so before adding hops as bitter and sour don't work well together.

I assume you mean adding them after the souring, the boil, and letting the wort cool to 190 before adding hops, instead of at flame-out? I also assume this delay will cause a "milder" hop presence? Would you still dry hop?

I'd really like to know how your clones come out, and I'd also appreciate any other details that any of you can share to help out an extract brewer!

Thanks again!

 

[NHBrews]

Ok, as an extract brewer, I'm trying to follow along here. When you talk about kettle souring with grain, are you talking (and this is from the Craft Beer & Brewing article) adding an unmashed base grain that contains Lactobacillus, or adding an acidulated malt? I assume an extract recipe could use the unmashed base grain but not an acidulated malt?

NHBrews, could you clarify a little on the I assume you mean adding them after the souring, the boil, and letting the wort cool to 190 before adding hops, instead of at flame-out? I also assume this delay will cause a "milder" hop presence? Would you still dry hop?

I'd really like to know how your clones come out, and I'd also appreciate any other details that any of you can share to help out an extract brewer!

Thanks again!

As background, I brew using a BrewHa BIAC system (essentially a BIAB all-grain system built in a conical).

For my kettle souring I mash as normal, remove the grain from the wort and do a quick boil (this removes oxygen from wort and some claim helps because it pasteurizes the wort, though don't think this matters if you are just adding more grain in to inoculate). I cool to ~110F and then throw about 4-6 oz of un-milled grain in a sock and float in the wort. I then close up my conical, flush with CO2 for a minute or 2 and set my temp control to 110F. Ph usually drops to mid 3s within 36hrs (has been as fast as 24hrs).

Once I reach my desired ph, I remove the grain sock and boil as usually to kill the bugs (hopefully primarily lacto)

My comment on FO vs 190F hop addition will really have an impact on lowering the IBUs (especially if you do a hop addition at FO and do not use a chiller). See this for a bit more on impact of hop utilization and temp: https://alchemyoverlord.wordpress.com/2016/03/06/an-analysis-of-sub-boiling-hop-utilization/

I will dry hop as well. Dry hopping will add a different aroma than adding at 190F (or FO).

I probably will not brew until early spring, but will report back once I have

 

[microbusbrewery]

I'm drinking a Aunt Sally right now. Not nearly as tart as the Gose/Berliners I've brewed via kettle souring method (inoculated with grain, held at 110F). I've brought those to a 3.5-3.6ph at 70F prior to boil. I would think this beer is more in the 3.8 area.

So the first time I tried this was at the Great Vegas Beer Fest last year and it was fantastic. I'd guess the pH was down around 3.4-3.5, so quite sour. Later on, I tried one at a bar (can't remember, but it was either bottled or canned) and it was barely tart...probably like you said, around 3.8 at the lowest. So the first time it was a really nice bright sour, but the second time I thought it was a really bland and boring beer. Just wondering if they changed the recipe to appeal to a broader market (people new to sours), or are they having consistency issues?

 

[Rockit]

I'm in the middle of trying my hand a clone of this. My wife loves aunt Sally so I'm trying to get the recipe down. Here's my first batch so far. Kept it simple to get a base

10lbs 2-row
2lbs white wheat

Mash at 150

Kettle soured with some uncrushed grains

Brought to a boil for about 5 minutes, then added hops.

1.5oz Citra at FO
1.5oz mosaic at FO
1.5oz Citra DH
1.5oz Mosaic DH

Used US-05 at 67°

It's cold crashing right now. I'll have it kegged in about a week and post an update.

Any updates?
How did it turn out?

 

[DaveSquared]

Sorry it took a while to post an update! For a first time attempt I think it turned out pretty well. The only thing I would change is the dry hop. You gotta dry hop the **** out of it! The sour aspect overwhelmed the hop aroma. There is very little hop aroma on it. I would at least use 3oz of each on it next time. Flavor is very good though. You get the hop flavor right after that initial sourness. Slight bitterness that lingers but is welcomed after the sour.

View attachment 1486818495350.jpg

 

[DaveSquared]

Color of aunt Sally for reference.

View attachment 1486819036141.jpg

 

[Rockit]

Very nice!
How long did you sour it for?

 

[DaveSquared]

I let it sour for 36 hours at 112°

 

[mhburgat@#gmail.com]

I know this is an old thread but was there ever a consensus grain recipe for Aunt Sally?