Lagering is useless

[Taket_al_Tauro]

Oh yes, the chocolates, not to mention the Cuban cigars, I'm told, one could purchase at the Davidoff's shop on the Banhoffstrasse and perhaps 'forget' to declare when clearing customs. Alledgedly.

Chocolates, alright, but didn't know my country was famous for Cuban cigars too...

 

[Brooothru]

Chocolates, alright, but didn't know my country was famous for Cuban cigars too...

Mine is famous for confiscating them (not the chocolates) at the border.

 

[soccerdad]

..... I could smell the waitress coming to my table the stench of diacetyl emanating from the beer she was carryng was so bad......

Last time I sniffed a Fraulein in a German brewpub, she kicked me in the teeth.

 

[Birrofilo]

I have a nice recollection of a German "Fest" in Munich in my teen years. It was bloody hot and it was probably August. We as a family were visiting Germany (as we normally did in those years) with the caravan. We decided to go to this "Fest" that had been organized in Munich and I think it had to do with an anniversary of the Stadium, the beautiful stadium which was built for the Football World Championship in 1974, and that I am afraid doesn't exist any more, with its beautiful "sails" covering it. It must have been between 1980 and 1985, so maybe the tenth anniversary.

I remember those quite Junonic woman bringing absurd amounts of 1-litre glasses on each arm. That would have been the subject of some verses by Homer, Virgil or Tasso. We two male children got 1 glass each. It was the first time in my life (and probably the last) I had a 1-litre glass in my hand. The beer was fresh, very light, refreshing, thirst-quenching, and delicious beyond belief. Both I and my brother were surprised on how easily it went down the tube (MUCH easier and faster than water really).

After that, we went to the "lady" (more resembling a night-club bouncer, truth be told) to give back the glasses, but she told us that we could keep them, we asked "how much" and she told us "nothing, it's all done" (the deposit was paid in advance, so we could keep the glasses, they were paid). We couldn't believe the small price for 2 litres included the glasses.

We were slightly sleepy for an hour that extremely hot afternoon thereafter: beer or hot weather? Who cares!

From that experience I got two long-lasting impressions:

a) German draught beer is absorbed by your body as if water was the imitation of a really refreshing drink;

b) In Munich, ANY excuse is good for laying long tables of beer drinkers outdoor. There were probably two more "Fests" happening that very same day in Munich. Oktoberfest is just for tourists. "Fests" are everywhere everytime. The 20th anniversary of a nice building in town? Let's make a beef festival.

One cannot help loving those guys!

The two glasses are still there in my kitchen as a recollection of that day.

 

[bwible]

I was in the Uncle Sam Travel Agency, otherwise known as the US Navy and I’ve been to quite a number of places around the world. Never been to Germany. Would love to someday.

I currently use Wyeast 1099 to make my pseudo-lagers. Its listed on Wyeasts site as recommended for Blonde Ale. I aged that cold and after a few weeks it was very lager-like. After the Blonde Ale/pseudo-lager I can re-use that to make bitter.

I made one pseudo-lager prior to that with 1968 and it was not bad either after a few weeks of cold aging.

As obvious as 1056 would seem, I have not tried that one yet. It’s funny - Cream Ale appears on Wyeast’s site in the styles under 1056, but not Blonde Ale?

 

[bwible]

If you used ale yeast, will it actually count as lagering?

The German word “lager” simply means “to store.” If you make what we-call pseudo-lager by fermenting a lager recipe with a clean ale yeast on the low end of the yeast’s temp range then store that cold, then by definintion you are lagering.

I still call mine a blonde ale or a psuedo-lager though. To me, a beer that is not made with a real lager yeast should not be called a lager. That’s by style definition.

Good pseudo-lagers can be really enjoyable, but I think just not quite the same.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Good pseudo-lagers can be really enjoyable, but I think just not quite the same.

How many of those who ribboned in the Czech Lager categories while using WLP-800 will be asked to send back their ribbons (past, present, and future)?

 

[Barbarossa]

Not my idea to stir the pot, but I'm kind of new and try to make sense of all this.

Isn't "storing" an ale at low temp more like conditioning? It will end up different but not lagered?

I thought that the lagering was to allow the yeast to slowly transform the beer at low temp, and that you need a special yeast to do that since ale yeast will list likely fall asleep at 35f.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Of the 80 potentially flavor related chemical markers monitored throughout lagering via NMR within the referenced peer reviewed dissertation text, none of them were deemed to be altered via lagering to any statistically meaningful degree.

 

[Taket_al_Tauro]

b) In Munich, ANY excuse is good for laying long tables of beer drinkers outdoor.

You are probably referring to what they call "Münchner Biergartenkultur". I miss that culture a lot... especially now with the first really gorgeous spring days kicking off (not that anything would be happening right now in Munich, due to Covid...).
But in a normal time, at the first signs of somewhat warmer sun rays, be it late winter or early spring, tables are out and beer is flowing. You do not even need an excuse to celebrate something for that to happen.

Oktoberfest is just for tourists.

Actually, I was surprised to discover that locals were still fond of Munich Oktoberfest (granted, not all of them...).
Most tried to go during week days, when crowds were a little less crazy... I too was expecting they would dismiss it as a tourist attraction, just as they dismissed the main Hofbräuhaus in the city centre. But apparently that was not the case. I guess it is something just too deeply rooted in their culture ;-)

 

[Toxxyc]

Interesting thread. I, for one, detect a large difference in beers that I lager (and ferment in a typical lager fashion) as opposed to beers made with ale yeasts. I've also gone so far as to lager beers made with ale yeasts (right at freezing for 4 months), but the results are the same - a lager, to me, is made by the yeast, not your typical process. I've made a Marzen a few weeks ago and the keg is about to kick. I fermented it for 3 weeks and lagered it for 4 weeks after that, before pitching into the keg. 2 weeks in the keg and it's a different beer than the sample I pulled and bottled after fermentation was complete. It's smoother, lighter, more crisp and, obviously, absolutely crystal clear.

I, for one, will keep lagering. It takes nothing from me and I enjoy doing it. Puts "value" on my homebrews, for me.

 

[Vale71]

Actually, I was surprised to discover that locals were still fond of Munich Oktoberfest (granted, not all of them...).

Die Wies'n was about to go bust in the 80s because locals were deserting it. It was saved by tourists, especially Italians that even got a whole weekend for them.

Lately the locals started complaining about not being able to be seated in the tents whenever they found it convenient and tried to push for priority reservations for locals. Typical Bavarian attitude...

 

[Taket_al_Tauro]

especially Italians that even got a whole weekend for them.

The famous "italian weekend", the one in the middle if I am not mistaken? Much dreaded by Bavarian girls

Typical Bavarian attitude...

They have a saying "Mia san mia..."

Die Wies'n was about to go bust in the 80s because locals were deserting it.

Edit: I would have never imagined that something like Wies'n was ever in danger of going bust.

 

[Birrofilo]

You are probably referring to what they call "Münchner Biergartenkultur". I miss that culture a lot...

No I am referring to real "Fests", when I was in Munich there were three simultaneously, in August.

The Biergartenkultur is another very nice feature of German culture. I think that Germans are generally speaking hungry of sun and being in the open, maybe that is because they generally don't have balconies in their flats (something that struck me when I was visiting Germany) and also they don't see much sun for reasons of cold or cloudiness. So when the season is right, or the temperature is right, they like to stay in the open air, more than Italians on the whole. When it is a sunny summer day I see young teen-ager Germans going around as if they were on the seaside, as if they want to "profit" as much as possible from the sun.

 

[Vale71]

Edit: I would have never imagined that something like Wies'n was ever in danger of going bust.

Have you seen their jacked-up prices?