Lager vs. Lagering

[mattm10]

I was wondering if anyone has tested the difference between brewing a lager (cold fermentation) and lagering a brew (storing at cold temperatures after fermentation is complete). Both are supposed to help create a crisp, clean tasting beer, but I would think cold fermentation would be better, since it would prevent the formation of many esters and compounds that are commonly produced at warmer temperatures during fermentation.

I've never tried cold fermentation; however, with my most recent brew (a Cream Ale, brewed with US-05 American Ale yeast), I've been aging it in a fridge at about 40 degrees Fahrenheit. Over the course of about two weeks, I've noticed the yeast character diminishing and the hop flavor shining through more and more. (I did a non-traditional Cream Ale that had bittering hops at 60 minutes plus a small amount of hops at 10 minutes for added flavor). Immediately after bottle conditioning was complete, it was very yeasty, almost like a Hefeweizen with only minor notes of the hops, but now there's very little yeast character left and I can really taste a lot of the floral, herbal notes from the Mt Hood hops. I've loved it both ways, and I think it's really cool that your brew can continue to change so much even after fermentation is complete.

I'm curious what your experiences have been. Do you prefer cold fermentation or cold-aging your brews? I would assume for a really good lager, you probably do both.

(The picture was taken a few minutes after pouring, which is why there's no visible head of foam on it.)

 

[fluketamer]

yes many have tested side by side cold conditioning vs lagering. kolsch is sort of cold conditioned ale. i have noticed that a lot of esters produced fermenting lagers on the warm side can be "conditioned out" with extra time.


read this thread it has a lot of good info
:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/warm-fermented-lager-thread.592169/page-60#post-10463126

i keg my beers so all my beers ( ales and lagers) are cold conditioned. and yes it improves both.

welcome to the forum.

 

[Bassman2003]

It is a broad topic. "Lager" is a type of beer & yeast that produces a certain type of flavor profile. They can be fermented in a range of temperatures with the main characteristics remaining in the beer. The yeast generally attenuates more and creates fewer esters than ale yeasts. This is the main feature of lager beer.

To lager is either cold storage or "conditioning". A lot of this is just gravity and colder temperatures getting things to drop out over time. All beer seems to benefit from this as even the off flavors seem to drop out or get eaten up by the remaining active yeast cells. The practice gets it roots by putting almost finished fermenting beer in barrels, plugging them up and storing cold so they do not spoil. The magic was (is) in the active yeast eating up off flavors along with the cold temps while creating carbonation naturally which consumed the remaining oxygen from the transfer as well.

We tend to think about just the storage angle but the yeast participation is an important part.

 

[dmtaylor]

From my experience, lager has more to do with yeast selection than anything else. Fermentation and conditioning temperature is secondary to how much esters the selected yeast is producing. So...

I have found that using pastorianus yeasts at warmer temperatures still usually produces a beer that is clean and at least "lager-like" if not a true "lager" by someone's own definition of whatever "lager" means to them. I have found the same to be true of S-04 and Wyeast 1007 and 2565 and potentially a small handful of other "ale" strains. I have also found that Belgian ale and German hefeweizen ale yeasts when fermented quite cold in the 50s can produce relatively clean beers; however, I would not say they are "lager-like" in my opinion either -- that term I reserve for the true pastorianus yeasts, and 1007 and 2565 and S-04.

Fermenting cold is key if you want an estery yeast to potentially produce a cleaner beer that is closer to a "lager"... but it's still not going to taste quite like a lager either, IMO. Conversely, conditioning an estery beer in cold conditions is going to settle some things out surely, but it is not going to make an estery ale taste like a lager, no way, no how. Well, at least, not unless you age it for a few YEARS, MAYBE.

Don't get me started on Lutra or other kveik "pseudo-lagers", or pressure fermentation. These hacks are trash -- enough said.

 

[jdauria]

I mean I make lagers and I also lager my lagers, if that makes sense. I ferment my lagers between 48-52F, then after raising temp for a d-rest and slowly bringing it back down to low 30's for a cold crash, I transfer to keg and then lager them for a month in low 30's. Meanwhile, my ales are fermented warm, but also go through a cold crash and then are also lagered to clear, but usually only for 2 weeks or so, the exception being the "hybrid" styles, i.e. Altbier, Kolsch and Cal Common...those get the month long lagering period.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

Don't get me started on Lutra or other kveik "pseudo-lagers", or pressure fermentation. These hacks are trash -- enough said.

I thought it was just me that hated kveik, although pressure fermentation at lager temps has been a game changer for my beers. Makes them extremely clean.

Lagering is just cold storage. A cold fermented beer with lager yeast that is cold conditioned (lagered) for 6-8 weeks compared to a warm fermented ale cold conditioned for 6-8 weeks are different beers even if the overall recipe is the same. The yeast makes the beer.

 

[kevin58]

I believe homebrewers... as with nearly all things... over complicate making beer. Lager beer is a prime example. I see so many homebrewers afraid of making a lager because it's complex, because they don't have the equipment, because, because, because. As dmtaylor says it's more about the yeast with fermentation temperatures and conditioning temperatures being secondary. To anyone who wants to make a lager but thinks they cant... YOU CAN. While cold fermentation is not something everyone can control but storing/conditioning cold (which helps more than fermentation temps imo) IS something you can do in the keg or bottle. So if you don't have the means to ferment at colder lager temperatures you can still use the right yeast and condition the beer cold. And as Meatloaf once said "Two Out Of Three Ain't Bad".

 

[mac_1103]

Well I guess I lager most of my ales. But I don't think that makes them lagers.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

This has been a great thread to learn and start diving into some more reading about yeast.

I have more like mac, lagering my ales as well as using Kolsch yeast. Actually brewing lager style beers and using an ale yeast has worked fine for me.

 

[MaxStout]

I believe homebrewers... as with nearly all things... over complicate making beer. Lager beer is a prime example. I see so many homebrewers afraid of making a lager because it's complex, because they don't have the equipment, because, because, because. As dmtaylor says it's more about the yeast with fermentation temperatures and conditioning temperatures being secondary. To anyone who wants to make a lager but thinks they cant... YOU CAN. While cold fermentation is not something everyone can control but storing/conditioning cold (which helps more than fermentation temps imo) IS something you can do in the keg or bottle. So if you don't have the means to ferment at colder lager temperatures you can still use the right yeast and condition the beer cold. And as Meatloaf once said "Two Out Of Three Ain't Bad".

For those wanting to try a lager, W-34/70 is your friend. Very forgiving, temp-wise, and it will ferment clean up to about mid-60s.