Kviek, any disadvantages?

[Jloewe]

So I’m a new brewer inheriting equipment from my dad, who only put together a few batches close to a decade ago. But when I got Kviek yeast due to lack of temp control he keeps insisting there has to be some disadvantages to it. So what are they? Is there a reason I wouldn’t just keep pounding out batches with Kviek? Seems to make good beer, easy to use. Can use a strain for almost any style.

addendum. I understand lutra is not exactly like lagering But that’s a whole new story since I’ll likely never have that equipment.

 

[Twinkeelfool]

You have to drink your beer quicker to make room in your kegs?
Seriously try them, they are really good.

 

[jschein]

Chill time is super fast since I ferment @95-100.
I brew mostly IPAs It is insanely quick. Most times I just keg and brew a new batch on the same day, chill to 100 and send it right into the fermenter, no clean brew
I usually do this for 2 to 3 batches and then start fresh yeast and clean and sanitize the fermenter. I do closed transfer.
I use just a small amount of yeast so store the rest.
Downsides; I have to remember to buy yeast nutrient and needed to buy a couple of new kegs for storage

 

[shoreman]

The only disadvantage I’ve come across is that the yeast tends to change the character over time. I think beers made with kveik are best consumed fresh. Makes sense since most of the Brewers these yeasts came from are drinking the beer on day 3-7 after ferment.

 

[pvpeacock]

The only downside I have is that I can't use my expensive glycol chiller and temperature controllers.
Seriously, my son started making beer in college this year and Kveik is a huge advantage for him because he has a simple set up with only a limited capacity to control temperature. His only complaint is that his beers taste a little "fruitier" than with other ale yeasts.

 

[Gusso]

I took about 6-7 years off of brewing, never heard of Kveik back then. Since discovering Kveik, I love it! I've used liquid Hornindal and Lutra as well as dry Voss. Great stuff, I see no downside.

 

[Gusso]

Also, I recently used Lutra in place of a lager yeast for a Baltic Porter. Fermented out in 48 hours and it's very clean.

 

[Velnerj]

I used the dry Voss strain and had a bad experience. I fermented at 38C and kegged after 3 days fermentation. Final gravity was indeed reached. But there was a huge yeast cake that formed at the bottom of the keg and every pour had a nasty yeast bite flavor that was very off putting. I dumped about half the keg because I could not stomach it.

What I would do differently is add yeast nutrients and let the beer sit longer, I may even cold crash a day or two before packaging. Seems that I got too excited and over confident in the yeast ability without letting it floc out and settle.

 

[Coastalbrew]

I think you have to experiment with them just like any other ingredient. I've read the threads here and elsewhere about how "clean" they are etc, etc, but I would not describe them that way. I'd say they don't have issues with some of the traditional off flavors, but they do have a very strong ester profile that may or may not work in your beer or be what you are looking for. The flavor profile I've experienced is VERY strong tropical fruit, mango, pineapple, passion fruit bomb, and is a little tart. That works well if you are making a hop bomb beer, but to me would be very off putting in styles like stout, porter, lager or many of the traditional styles. Admittedly I have not used these yeasts extensively, but I would caution careful experimentation rather than being swept up in the excitement of these unique strains.

Temp control is really quite easy and can be accomplished very simply and with almost no cost, so don't let it keep you from choosing and using the right ingredients for your beer.

For basic temp control, many people start off using a water bath with ice packs that you rotate periodically to maintain temp. All you need is a basin large enough to hold your fermenter and water with space around the sides for the ice packs to sit in the water. The water depth should be as close to the level of the beer on the fermenter as possible. Depending on how many ice packs you use and how often you switch then out, you can easily keep the temp in the high 50's to low 60's or higher.

Cheers!

 

[jrgtr42]

Related to this, how essential is it that you ferment at high temps? I don't have temp control at the moment (still in negotiation for a fermentation fridge) so I'm limited to my cellar.
I usually like to ferment on the cool side - low 60's or so, but come summer it can get close to 70 in there. I occasionally get some off-flavors and fusels in my beer, depending on what style and yeast.
This time of year is more than fine for standard yeasts, but come summer I may experiment.

 

[gunhaus]

When the whole kviek craze began, I heard all the stories of hyper speed ferments and great flavors and magical abilities to work across an incredible temp spectrum. So I said what the hell! I bought some Hornidal, and some Voss. I made three beer with each. I did not see where they were one wit faster than say Nottingham(My last brew before our fire was a 1.056 pale ale with notty - it took off in about 4 hours, and the krausen had dropped again withing 72; on day 4 it was at 1.008 and i Ieft it ten day just to clear up nicely) and in fact my first Hornidal brew took an eternity to finish, slowly chugging along for 2 plus weeks! And in the end they ALL had some degree of plastic/band-aid ish flavor that I quite disliked. (And no, this was NOT a sanitation/infection issue, the equipment worked just like normal before and after the experiment with the kvieks) So I guess I am not on the kviek bandwagon. I know others have experienced the slower than expected ferments and the plastic taste so I ain't alone! But if they work for you and you don't taste the off taste then WHAT could be the downside> There is no downside to something that is working well for you! Brew on and enjoy.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

So I’m a new brewer inheriting equipment from my dad, who only put together a few batches close to a decade ago. But when I got Kviek yeast due to lack of temp control he keeps insisting there has to be some disadvantages to it. So what are they? Is there a reason I wouldn’t just keep pounding out batches with Kviek? Seems to make good beer, easy to use. Can use a strain for almost any style.

addendum. I understand lutra is not exactly like lagering But that’s a whole new story since I’ll likely never have that equipment.

Different kveik strains have different characteristics and they can be expressed more with low pitch rates for some, with that said some are very “clean”.
This will give you all the data, of course not all of them are commercially available. Farmhouse yeast registry

 

[Andrew7447]

I use voss/hornindal pitch at 42c set temp controller to 32c. 2 day ferment to cold crash that night, trans to keg and done. I legit wouldnt even brew without them.

 

[NobleNewt]

I've used Voss almost exclusively since I got back into brewing. I've used the Omega Voss strain and re-used it probably a dozen times with no perceived ill effect. I've done stouts, IPAs, ambers, blondes, you name it. My biggest problem I've had with the yeast is relatively poor attenuation and its performance below about 75*.

On a couple of occasions, I've had the yeast "stall" on me because, after a massive 48-hour push, it pretty well finished its business. Unfortunately, I didn't keep fermentation temperatures up past that period and the yeast went dormant, leaving me with an under attenuated beer (in the neighborhood of 68%). This last batch (bottled yesterday) I increased fermentation temp, added some yeast nutrient, and gave it another week. FG finally fell into an acceptable attenuation range (75%) and I bottled.

What I would say, in my experience, is double the yeast nutrient, keep fermentation temps high enough for at least a week for it to finish out as completely as possible, and be confident that the yeast has finished before you bottle. I've also had it not quite get down to its max attenuation and I end up with over-carbonated beer because there were a couple of gravity points still to go. I think in the future I may switch to a fresh pitch or even the dry Lallemand Voss just to see how it does.

I'll say one more thing. There's an article out there that basically debunks all of the myths about underpitching for flavor. Actually, a healthy pitch results in better attenuation and almost no noticeable flavor differences. Here's a link: The Impact of Pitch Rate on Kveik Ferments and another from Brulosophy: Yeast Pitch Rate: Impact of Underpitching Kveik Yeast | exBEERiment Results!

Of course, someone will disagree with everything I've said, but I'm just sharing my personal experiences!

 

[ba-brewer]

The first couple beers made with voss seemed to be a bit more hazy, thinking it was due to not cooling low enough to get break to drop out of the wort. Now I chill down to when the break drops to get clean wort into the fermentor then warm back up for fermentation.

Getting beer to cool naturally from 90 down to 70 so I could dry hop without getting suck back took a while in warm temperatures which wiped out the time saves with the fast ferment.

For me Kviek only save a day or two during fermentation, still needs the normal conditioning time to get drinkable. I have not made that many beers (4 or 5 with voss, 2 with lutra) but will keep checking it out.

 

[NobleNewt]

The first couple beers made with voss seemed to be a bit more hazy, thinking it was due to not cooling low enough to get break to drop out of the wort. Now I chill down to when the break drops to get clean wort into the fermentor then warm back up for fermentation.

Getting beer to cool naturally from 90 down to 70 so I could dry hop without getting suck back took a while in warm temperatures which wiped out the time saves with the fast ferment.

For me Kviek only save a day or two during fermentation, still needs the normal conditioning time to get drinkable. I have not made that many beers (4 or 5 with voss, 2 with lutra) but will keep checking it out.

I find that Voss doesn't need as much time to get rid of the "green" flavors. Granted, most of my recipes I keep fairly simple, but even my stouts resemble something more drinkable than not after about 2 weeks in primary and a week in bottles. Could just be that I don't care as much to let my beers age.

 

[ba-brewer]

I find that Voss doesn't need as much time to get rid of the "green" flavors. Granted, most of my recipes I keep fairly simple, but even my stouts resemble something more drinkable than not after about 2 weeks in primary and a week in bottles. Could just be that I don't care as much to let my beers age.

I do mostly session type beers in the 5% range and keg in about a week then cold condition and carbonate for a couple weeks so roughly the same overall time. Definitely drinkable then but better with a week or two of more conditioning and that is with Kviek and other yeasts.

 

[Andres Falconer]

For those of you that have tried other historical farmhouse yeasts, like Jovaru and Simonaitis, is your experience similar to kveik? They are also high temperature fast fermenters. So far, I am delighted. My next experiment may be brewing something side by side with kveik and Jovaru, to compare results.

 

[Gozie Boy]

Getting beer to cool naturally from 90 down to 70 so I could dry hop without getting suck back took a while in warm temperatures which wiped out the time saves with the fast ferment.

I see this myth much too often. "Suck back" is caused by cooling (delta Temp), and cannot be mitigated by time ... unless you have a leak, in which you have an even bigger problem!

 

[ba-brewer]

I

I see this myth much too often. "Suck back" is caused by cooling (delta Temp), and cannot be mitigated by time ... unless you have a leak, in which you have an even bigger problem!

Sounds like another disadvantage then I guess, if you ferment warm then you need to mitigate oxygen exposure if you allow to cool before packaging.

If I cool slow enough it seem like the co2 coming out of solution makes up for the loss of volume from cooling. Maybe I just have a leaky fermentor.

 

[Gozie Boy]

OK, good point if you have not finished fermenting and more CO2 is being released. I was thinking about cold crashing once you have completed fermentation.