Kriek doesn't sour after 14 month. Could lactose help

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Julien

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Location
Brussels, Belgium
Hi,

In april 2021, I've been brewing a lambic(-ish) base beer to which I was supposed to add cherries.
The grain bill is 65% pilsner and 35% wheat malt. I attempted to follow a turbid mash but I ended up using too much water, so maybe the wort is too fermentable.
I added enough hops to reach a mere 5 ibu.
The ferments I put into the beer are a mix of WLP644 Saccharomyces Bruxellensis Trois, WLP650 Brettanomyces Bruxellensis and a home culture harvested from cherries with which I've already successfully brewed a sour (most likely contains diastatic sacchs and LAB).

The alcoholic fermentation went well but the pH doesn't go below 4 and the gravity is a flat 1.000. Fearing that the LAB from my home culture might be dead, I pitched Lallemand Helveticus Sour in october 2021 and added some sharchy water and dextrins (and the cherries) to give them something to chew but obviously, the yeast was faster because at 14 month the pH still doesn't go below 4 and the gravity is back to 1000.

In it's current state, the beer is just unenjoyable : a bretty and fruity nose, a silky texture but no sourness so it feels cloying.

I was thinking of adding some lactose, so that only the lactic acid bacteriae could chew on it and ferment it into lactic acid. Is this a crazy idea ? Or does anyone has a better one ? I'm all ears !

Thanks in advance !
Levure liquide WLP650 Brettanomyces bruxellensis - White Labs

Levure liquide WLP650 Brettanomyces bruxellensis - White Labs
 
The Brett may also be able to use the lactose.

You could also just purchases lactic acid and dose accordingly.

Or you could brew up a modern quick sour (or kettle sour but why?) and just let it get as acidic as possible and blend it with this beer.
 
Hi Julien !

Nice to hear from other amateur lambic/kriek makers based in Brussels !

What about temperature ? You don't mention it, but it plays a key role in the development of pedio/lacto, and i know that summer 2021 has been pretty chilly in Belgium !

Also, using wheat malt instead of raw wheat reduces the initial acidity of your brew, which will later slow down further development of your LABs. I strongly encourage you to use raw wheat for your next lambic.

Keep us updated !
 
You're probably stuck with what you have there. It sounds like the home culture was outcompeted by the two brett pitches. Most wild yeast and bacteria are not great at fermenting complex starches or sugars. They are more accustomed to metabolizing the food sources where you found them (e.g. simple sugars in the cherries). Not all LAB ferment lactose readily and what you have in the beer now may not be well suited for that purpose. The brett strains might ferment it or you might end up with a bunch of unfermented lactose in the beer.

IMO if it's delicious as it is I would enjoy it for what it is, even if that wasn't the goal. If you're set on this becoming a sour beer, then you should brew a second (and maybe third) sour beer and blend them.
 
IMO if it's delicious as it is I would enjoy it for what it is, even if that wasn't the goal. If you're set on this becoming a sour beer, then you should brew a second (and maybe third) sour beer and blend them
Thank you for your answer. The think is, it's not delicious. It has the funkiness and the fruitiness that I want it to have, but the lack of acidity makes it a bit cloying : it lacks some kick. Or maybe it's beyond the mere lack of acidity and I'd better toss it away. I'll brew another lambic-like beer anyway, I just had a very good yield of Rainier cherries (not exactly traditional but still very good) and I'll try to blend both and see where it gets me.
 
Hi Julien !
Nice to hear from other amateur lambic/kriek makers based in Brussels !
What about temperature ? You don't mention it, but it plays a key role in the development of pedio/lacto, and i know that summer 2021 has been pretty chilly in Belgium !
Also, using wheat malt instead of raw wheat reduces the initial acidity of your brew, which will later slow down further development of your LABs. I strongly encourage you to use raw wheat for your next lambic.
Thanks for the answer ! Have we met by any chance ? I often hang out with the hombrewing community gravitating around Dynamo in Saint-Gilles :) (But admittedly, I don't make a lot of lambiek)
Indeed I didn't mentioned the temperature : it is not controlled and my thermostat kicks in at 19°C so it never gets colder than this but but it went occasionally hotter, especially during heatwaves (and you know how Belgian summers are ;) )
I really didn't know that wheat malt would have that effect ! Thnak you for this info !
 
Brew up a small batch with just a pinch (literally) of hops towards the end of the boil, add your LAB. Even just a stovetop extract batch. Add some sacch after a couple days (and if you want you can pitch brett but it won't do much if the bacteria are souring the hell out of it). Then you can blend it in.

5 IBU can really stop a lot of bacteria especially lactobacillus. I have one L. Brevis Plantarum blend that's pretty hop tolerant, the rest don't tolerate more than a couple IBUs.

Good news is It's actually pretty easy to sour-up a blend, it's a lot harder to remove acidity long term. Hell I wish half my barrels weren't as tart as they are, I keep feeding higher IBU wort but the pedio is military grade.
 
Cloying w a specific gravity of 1.000? Maybe you mean flabby? Lots of brett bbl aged beers taste kinda like they are missing something until they are carbed. Maybe thats all it needs?
 
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