Kreuzberg beer

[Cavpilot2000]

I'm inclined to give this a go soon too. Do you think it would make a negative flavor impact if I dropped the Carafa Special and just got all my color from Sinamar? I don't have any Carafa right now. But, man, do I have plenty of Sinamar!

No, in fact I think it would be better. The Carafa is just for color, not flavor, because the beer has no roast flavor. So Sinamar would be the ticket. Gonna give that a go on my next attempt.

 

[Robert65]

So I think I'm set to do a version of this this weekend, @Cavpilot2000. My hop store is currently full of wonderful, whole cone, PacNW Saaz from Ted Hausotter, which I'll use instead of your blend, but I'll try to match your hop schedule. And no Carafa, just Sinamar, but otherwise your grist with Barke for the Munich and Pilsner as specified.

One question: I'm thinking of aiming for a color around 17-18 SRM, which I think of as typical for a Dunkel; what color do you target? That picture above looks pretty light.

(So this won't be Kreuzberg of course, and won't exactly be the Cavpilot2000 beer either. But as a tip of the hat I might just call it Flugzeug Dunkel. [emoji16] )

 

[Cavpilot2000]

The Kloster Kreuzberg Dunkel is, in fact, very much on the light and of the Dunkel spectrum. Probably the lightest I’ve ever seen. But back before there were official styles, anything darker than pale was called dark. So this is very much a Dunkel in the classical/historical sense, but borderline in the modern sense.

Also, I highly doubt the Kloster is LODO, but maybe the monks switched over some years back - you never know.

 

[Robert65]

Well then, I'll LODO it, color it however I like, and probably have one the tastiest beers I've ever imagined. I've been mulling over where to go with grain bill and hop schedule for a Dunkel, and your enthusiasm has convinced me I have to try this approach. Prost!

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Here is another pic of it. Obviosly the lighting is very bright, but you can really get an idea of the color here.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

In fact, I think that was taken at the same restaurant due to the glasses. When you drink it at the monastery Biergarten, they serve it in stoneware mugs.

 

[Queequeg]

I brewing a vienna next week, but I think I will have a crack at this once fermenter space is free.

 

[Robert65]

So, still hoping to brew this weekend, but since I'm new to Barke, think I'll go with a more familiar grist (80/15/5.) Still going to use your hop schedule, I like the idea of a small late charge, which I've never used in Dunkel or Märzen. And once I get my Barke legs, this will be on deck.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

So, still hoping to brew this weekend, but since I'm new to Barke, think I'll go with a more familiar grist (80/15/5.) Still going to use your hop schedule, I like the idea of a small late charge, which I've never used in Dunkel or Märzen. And once I get my Barke legs, this will be on deck.

Which Munich are you planning to use? When I made this the first time, I used a 50/50 split of Munich I and II.
I think you'll like the small late hops addition. It's not the norm, but I think the original has a little and even in their descriptions, boast of an aroma of Hallertau.

 

[Robert65]

Which Munich are you planning to use? When I made this the first time, I used a 50/50 split of Munich I and II.
I think you'll like the small late hops addition. It's not the norm, but I think the original has a little and even in their descriptions, boast of an aroma of Hallertau.

I'm using Barke for both the Munich and Pils. I've only used Barke malts twice so far, in an 80/20 Pils/Munich and a 95/5 Pils/CaraHell. Neither tapped yet. So I want to go heavy on the Munich this time to really get a feel for it. BTW König Ludwig Dunkel is another example of unconventional late hop character in a Dunkel, actually more extreme, but it shows that it can be made to work. I just don't want to totally obscure the malt!

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I'm using Barke for both the Munich and Pils. I've only used Barke malts twice so far, in an 80/20 Pils/Munich and a 95/5 Pils/CaraHell. Neither tapped yet. So I want to go heavy on the Munich this time to really get a feel for it. BTW König Ludwig Dunkel is another example of unconventional late hop character in a Dunkel, actually more extreme, but it shows that it can be made to work. I just don't want to totally obscure the malt!

Tapping my Barke version tomorrow (Munich, not Pils).
Yeah, I think you'll like the late hop and its enough to be present, but doesn't get in the way of the malt at all.

 

[bunnyrat]

I finally got around to brewing this recipe this week. It only look a year. I’ll report back once it is kegged.

 

[bunnyrat]

So I just started pouring this. It honestly has been long enough since I had to original that I can’t say how close it is, but it sure is tasty. Prost!

 

[Ruint]

Thank you gents for the recipe(s) and work you've done on this. I attempted today to brew this....we will have to see how close it is after fermentation finishes. 1 hour 52 minutes for mash, starting with 122 degrees F for 1/2 hour, followed by 15 minute rise to 152 degrees F and held there for 45 minutes, followed by 10 minute rise to 168 degrees F and held for the remainder while I was getting set up to transfer over to the boil kettle. I used the 50/50 split of munich 1 & 2 as the only barke I can get is pilsner. Did a rigorous boil for 90 minutes, 4 ounces Tettnang at 50 minutes in, Hallertua Mittlefreu added at 1.25 hours with 3 ounces and again at flameout with 2 ounces. As this is a 15 gallon batch, those hops quantities still keep it on the low side of IBU profile. My O.G. came out at 1.066. Bavarian lager yeast from Wyeast.

 

[Ruint]

Hydrometer test last night shows it to be 1.030 for gravity. Still have another 20 points to drop, but the taste test off the sample was promising.

 

[Fr_Marc]

Ruint, may I ask how the brew turned out? I am planning to give the Kreuzberg tribute a try soon. Cheers! Marc

 

[Witherby]

@Fr_Marc, thanks for reviving this thread which I had missed. I am a huge fan of Franconian Dunkel. I brew one similar to Cavpilot2000's recipe, although more like 82% Munich II, 10% pilsner, 4% Caramunich II and 4% Carafa Special III (both added at Vorlauf) and aiming for 30 IBUs. I like Hersbrucker in mine. Definitely step mash to help attenuate the beer. Don't want it as malty as a southern Bavarian Dunkel. I have some fresh sacks of IREKS malt from Kulmbach in Franconia. I think it may be time to brew this one again and get it ready for the fall.

 

[joshbhs04]

so glad i found this thread, definitely gonna try and brew this in the next few months as I have put back many beers after walking up that hill!

 

[Ruint]

Unfortunately I didn't get to finish this. In between checking gravity readings, my airlock got knocked out of the lid bung. Don't know for how long it wasn't there, so I put it back in, ever hopeful. 2 days of no noticed activity. Took a gravity sample and was still 15 points off of target. Tasted the sample, and it was a very unpleasant vinegar taste, so I aborted. Haven't recovered from my disappointment yet, to try again....

 

[Fr_Marc]

That’s unfortunate, Ruint. Don‘t give up!

 

[Kreuzbergbier]

My first post. Just a yr new to homebrewing, but I've been enjoying Kreuzberg Bier since I was 10. Mom's from a neighboring village.
This has come to be my favorite brew. The beer there is always cooler than most Wirthauses, has almost no head or carbonation but is super good and tasty.

 

[MaxStout]

My first post. Just a yr new to homebrewing, but I've been enjoying Kreuzberg Bier since I was 10. Mom's from a neighboring village.
This has come to be my favorite brew. The beer there is always cooler than most Wirthauses, has almost no head or carbonation but is super good and tasty.

Welcome to HBT! Have you brewed a Kreuzberg clone?

 

[Kreuzbergbier]

Not yet, but it's my goal by Summer

 

[DeanRIowa]

I wonder if using a Kloster sourced yeast like "WLP835 " might help to zero in on the flavor as well, as White Labs says

Classic yeast from a famous Bavarian monastery. This strain develops a creamy, malty beer profile with low sulfur production and low esters. It is a great choice for styles like traditional helles, Oktoberfest, bock, and dunkel.

I understand they might be a distance apart, but maybe yeast was shared in the past?

 

[Fr_Marc]

On Nov 27th, 2021, I brewed my version of the Kreuzberg Beer according to the following recipe (based on the input of this thread):

Batch Size 23 L
Boil Time 60 mins
Mash Efficiency 80%
Mash Volume 18.45 L
Sparge Volume 13.98 L
OG: 1.054
FG: 1.012
IBU 23.1
ABV: 5.49%

Fermentables
Weyermann Barke Munich 3.60 kg (65%)
Weyermann Extra Pale Premium Pilsner Malt 1.66 kg (30%)
Weyermann Caramunich II 0.22 kg (4%)
Weyermann Carafa Special II 0.06 kg (1%)

Hops
Hallertau (IBU: 9.8) 21.00 g (35%) Pellet Boil 60 min
Tettnang (IBU: 9.8) 25.00 g (42%) Pellet Boil 60 min
Hallertau (IBU: 3.5) 14.00 g (23%) Pellet Boil 10 min

Mash Steps
Mash In 65 °C 60 min
Mash Step 2 73 °C 30 min
Mash Out 78 °C 10 min

Yeast
Munich Helles Yeast (WLP860): 1l Starter

Extras
Polyclar Brewbrite 4.5 g Boil 20 min

Fermentation Steps
Primary Fermentation: 11 °C 10 d

The beer was then bottle conditoned with 4.5g of dextrose per 500ml bottle.

Last week, I was finally able to visit Kreuzberg Monastery and bring home a 2 liter growler of the real stuff to compare it to my homebrew version, which had been lagering at 4°C for nine months.

Left: My homebrew version, right: Kreuzberger Klosterbier

The beer that I brewed turned out to be very close to the real stuff. Colourwise, it was a wee bit darker (as you can see in the picture). Tastewise it was even closer to the original Klosterbier. The only notable difference was a very slight roast flavour in my brew. So I would suggest changing the Carafa Special II to Sinamar for colour adjustment.

All in all I have to say that I am pretty pleased with the outcome. Without the help of you guys on this forum I would never have gotten so far. Cheers!

Fr. Marc