Kreuzberg beer

[Cavpilot2000]

Reviving this thread, as Kreuzberg Dunkel is my favorite beer in the world.
I am close to a pretty tight clone. Brewing again this month to dial it in.

It's a Dunkel, not a Kellerbier, though it is light as far as the spectrum of Dunkels.

And that BYO-published "Caveman Kellerbier" is way off - there is no oak flavor in either the Kreuzberg Dunkel or any Franconian Kellerbier. Whoever wrote that recipe and article on it has clearly not experienced many Franconian Kellerbiers first hand.

There should not be oak in a Kellerbier.
Not even a little.

Here is a pic of the real Kreuzberg Dunkel:

 

[bunnyrat]

How’d it turn out? Could you share your recipe?

 

[Cavpilot2000]

How’d it turn out? Could you share your recipe?

My most recent attempt is the closest I've come yet.
65% Barke Munich
30% Pilsner
4% Caramunich II
1% DeHusked Carafa II
23 IBU of Tett and Hallertau, mostly bittering with a half ounce of Hallertau at 10 minutes

 

[bunnyrat]

Thanks! While it will end up being outside of normal Dunkel season, I’m going to look to get this in the pipeline. A couple of other questions if I may. What is your target OG? Mash temp/schedule? Preferred yeast? Thanks again!

 

[brewbama]

I had Kreuzberg many times while in Germany. It’s one of my all time favorites. I am going to brew Cavpilot’s recipe with Hochkurz mash and S-189 yeast

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Thanks! While it will end up being outside of normal Dunkel season, I’m going to look to get this in the pipeline. A couple of other questions if I may. What is your target OG? Mash temp/schedule? Preferred yeast? Thanks again!

OG of the original is 1.054, so that's what I target.
I feel like KBurg Dunkel has a fairly well-attenuated but medium body. I used my typical non-Pilsner profile of 60 min at 150, 30 min at 163, and 10 min at 172 (mashout). The last 2 steps are really key to getting epic head. You can fully convert well before that, but mashing is about much more than just sacchrification.
I like WY 2206 or WLP860. Yes, I know they are very different yeasts, but they both work wonderfully.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I had Kreuzberg many times while in Germany. It’s one of my all time favorites. I am going to brew Cavpilot’s recipe with Hochkurz mash and S-189 yeast

If you don't have Barke Munich, I'd go with a 50/50 mix of Munich I and Munich II in place of the Barke.
And please, only use quality German malts.

 

[Toby Karnes]

Man! I just ran across this post. My son was stationed in Schweinfurt and when we went over for his wedding, he took me to Kreuzberg. I walked up the hill but I stumbled back. Best I've ever had! Now you all have me wanting it but I need more practice first! Thanks for the memory!

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Man! I just ran across this post. My son was stationed in Schweinfurt and when we went over for his wedding, he took me to Kreuzberg. I walked up the hill but I stumbled back. Best I've ever had! Now you all have me wanting it but I need more practice first! Thanks for the memory!

My fiancee is FROM Schweinfurt. In fact I am going back in a few weeks to visit her family. Her dad always makes time for a trip to Kreuzberg when we visit.

 

[Robert65]

My most recent attempt is the closest I've come yet.
65% Barke Munich
30% Pilsner
4% Caramunich II
1% DeHusked Carafa II
23 IBU of Tett and Hallertau, mostly bittering with a half ounce of Hallertau at 10 minutes

I'm inclined to give this a go soon too. Do you think it would make a negative flavor impact if I dropped the Carafa Special and just got all my color from Sinamar? I don't have any Carafa right now. But, man, do I have plenty of Sinamar!

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I'm inclined to give this a go soon too. Do you think it would make a negative flavor impact if I dropped the Carafa Special and just got all my color from Sinamar? I don't have any Carafa right now. But, man, do I have plenty of Sinamar!

No, in fact I think it would be better. The Carafa is just for color, not flavor, because the beer has no roast flavor. So Sinamar would be the ticket. Gonna give that a go on my next attempt.

 

[Robert65]

So I think I'm set to do a version of this this weekend, @Cavpilot2000. My hop store is currently full of wonderful, whole cone, PacNW Saaz from Ted Hausotter, which I'll use instead of your blend, but I'll try to match your hop schedule. And no Carafa, just Sinamar, but otherwise your grist with Barke for the Munich and Pilsner as specified.

One question: I'm thinking of aiming for a color around 17-18 SRM, which I think of as typical for a Dunkel; what color do you target? That picture above looks pretty light.

(So this won't be Kreuzberg of course, and won't exactly be the Cavpilot2000 beer either. But as a tip of the hat I might just call it Flugzeug Dunkel. [emoji16] )

 

[Cavpilot2000]

The Kloster Kreuzberg Dunkel is, in fact, very much on the light and of the Dunkel spectrum. Probably the lightest I’ve ever seen. But back before there were official styles, anything darker than pale was called dark. So this is very much a Dunkel in the classical/historical sense, but borderline in the modern sense.

Also, I highly doubt the Kloster is LODO, but maybe the monks switched over some years back - you never know.

 

[Robert65]

Well then, I'll LODO it, color it however I like, and probably have one the tastiest beers I've ever imagined. I've been mulling over where to go with grain bill and hop schedule for a Dunkel, and your enthusiasm has convinced me I have to try this approach. Prost!

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Here is another pic of it. Obviosly the lighting is very bright, but you can really get an idea of the color here.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

In fact, I think that was taken at the same restaurant due to the glasses. When you drink it at the monastery Biergarten, they serve it in stoneware mugs.

 

[Queequeg]

I brewing a vienna next week, but I think I will have a crack at this once fermenter space is free.

 

[Robert65]

So, still hoping to brew this weekend, but since I'm new to Barke, think I'll go with a more familiar grist (80/15/5.) Still going to use your hop schedule, I like the idea of a small late charge, which I've never used in Dunkel or Märzen. And once I get my Barke legs, this will be on deck.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

So, still hoping to brew this weekend, but since I'm new to Barke, think I'll go with a more familiar grist (80/15/5.) Still going to use your hop schedule, I like the idea of a small late charge, which I've never used in Dunkel or Märzen. And once I get my Barke legs, this will be on deck.

Which Munich are you planning to use? When I made this the first time, I used a 50/50 split of Munich I and II.
I think you'll like the small late hops addition. It's not the norm, but I think the original has a little and even in their descriptions, boast of an aroma of Hallertau.

 

[Robert65]

Which Munich are you planning to use? When I made this the first time, I used a 50/50 split of Munich I and II.
I think you'll like the small late hops addition. It's not the norm, but I think the original has a little and even in their descriptions, boast of an aroma of Hallertau.

I'm using Barke for both the Munich and Pils. I've only used Barke malts twice so far, in an 80/20 Pils/Munich and a 95/5 Pils/CaraHell. Neither tapped yet. So I want to go heavy on the Munich this time to really get a feel for it. BTW König Ludwig Dunkel is another example of unconventional late hop character in a Dunkel, actually more extreme, but it shows that it can be made to work. I just don't want to totally obscure the malt!

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I'm using Barke for both the Munich and Pils. I've only used Barke malts twice so far, in an 80/20 Pils/Munich and a 95/5 Pils/CaraHell. Neither tapped yet. So I want to go heavy on the Munich this time to really get a feel for it. BTW König Ludwig Dunkel is another example of unconventional late hop character in a Dunkel, actually more extreme, but it shows that it can be made to work. I just don't want to totally obscure the malt!

Tapping my Barke version tomorrow (Munich, not Pils).
Yeah, I think you'll like the late hop and its enough to be present, but doesn't get in the way of the malt at all.

 

[bunnyrat]

I finally got around to brewing this recipe this week. It only look a year. I’ll report back once it is kegged.

 

[bunnyrat]

So I just started pouring this. It honestly has been long enough since I had to original that I can’t say how close it is, but it sure is tasty. Prost!

 

[Ruint]

Thank you gents for the recipe(s) and work you've done on this. I attempted today to brew this....we will have to see how close it is after fermentation finishes. 1 hour 52 minutes for mash, starting with 122 degrees F for 1/2 hour, followed by 15 minute rise to 152 degrees F and held there for 45 minutes, followed by 10 minute rise to 168 degrees F and held for the remainder while I was getting set up to transfer over to the boil kettle. I used the 50/50 split of munich 1 & 2 as the only barke I can get is pilsner. Did a rigorous boil for 90 minutes, 4 ounces Tettnang at 50 minutes in, Hallertua Mittlefreu added at 1.25 hours with 3 ounces and again at flameout with 2 ounces. As this is a 15 gallon batch, those hops quantities still keep it on the low side of IBU profile. My O.G. came out at 1.066. Bavarian lager yeast from Wyeast.

 

[Ruint]

Hydrometer test last night shows it to be 1.030 for gravity. Still have another 20 points to drop, but the taste test off the sample was promising.

 

[Fr_Marc]

Ruint, may I ask how the brew turned out? I am planning to give the Kreuzberg tribute a try soon. Cheers! Marc

 

[Witherby]

@Fr_Marc, thanks for reviving this thread which I had missed. I am a huge fan of Franconian Dunkel. I brew one similar to Cavpilot2000's recipe, although more like 82% Munich II, 10% pilsner, 4% Caramunich II and 4% Carafa Special III (both added at Vorlauf) and aiming for 30 IBUs. I like Hersbrucker in mine. Definitely step mash to help attenuate the beer. Don't want it as malty as a southern Bavarian Dunkel. I have some fresh sacks of IREKS malt from Kulmbach in Franconia. I think it may be time to brew this one again and get it ready for the fall.

 

[joshbhs04]

so glad i found this thread, definitely gonna try and brew this in the next few months as I have put back many beers after walking up that hill!

 

[Ruint]

Unfortunately I didn't get to finish this. In between checking gravity readings, my airlock got knocked out of the lid bung. Don't know for how long it wasn't there, so I put it back in, ever hopeful. 2 days of no noticed activity. Took a gravity sample and was still 15 points off of target. Tasted the sample, and it was a very unpleasant vinegar taste, so I aborted. Haven't recovered from my disappointment yet, to try again....

 

[Fr_Marc]

That’s unfortunate, Ruint. Don‘t give up!