Kolsch Yeast Question

[mona]

I have a club only competition that I want to enter a Kolsch in. I have yet to make it and the entry date is April 22nd. I have used a Kolsch yeast before and I remember it smelling like sulpher when it was fermenting. I figure I have 5 days for primary 5 days for secondary and 14 days cold condition at 40 F.
Will that be long enough to get the sulpher out or should I go with a German ale yeast?

Any thoughts?

 

[Rhaop]

I've used wlp029 with a 2 week primary in the mid 60's without detecting a noticeable sulphur, if your on a time crunch make at least a 500ml starter and forget the secondary, primary at least 10days before kegging

 

[Rhaop]

If you don't have a stir plate or plan to decant safer bet with a 1L starter

 

[madscientist451]

I lager my Kolsch for at least a month but perhaps 14 days would be ok. I've noticed that after 3-4 months the kolsch is better, but everyone's tastes are different.
What yeast did you use before that had the sulfur note, what temperature did you ferment at? Are you bottling or kegging?

 

[mona]

If you don't have a stir plate or plan to decant safer bet with a 1L starter

I do have a stir plate. I can make a simple starter 2 C water 1/2 C Light DME. Add the smack pack and let it do its thing for a day I guess. But I do not want to go too hot and heavy as I do not want any unwanted esters in the final product.

 

[mona]

I lager my Kolsch for at least a month but perhaps 14 days would be ok. I've noticed that after 3-4 months the kolsch is better, but everyone's tastes are different.
What yeast did you use before that had the sulfur note, what temperature did you ferment at? Are you bottling or kegging?

I used a Kolsch yeast and it smelled like rotten eggs for a about a week. It was not present in the beer at all but I let it sit longer than I am going to this time. I will be kegging and then using counter pressure I will bottle up a few bottles for the competition. I have only recently started bottling this way and I must say I really like it. A little more work but no sediment on the bottom of a bottle is sure nice.

 

[mona]

The recipe I have found does a mash in 122 for 30 min then conversion 158 for 60 min and then mash out 170 for 10.
mid 60s primary 4 days rack into secondary and let go 4 days mid 60s, rack again and lager for 2 weeks at 40 degrees.

 

[okbecker]

Using Kolsch yeast I have noticed some sulphur aromas though in my opinion with the short lagering time the concern is whether or not the beer would have the clarity required. Kolsch yeast generally takes quite awhile to drop out of suspension. I would leave in primary for 10 days @ 60F, Raise temp to 65F for 4 days, clear with finings, rack to a keg for 10 days, bottle just before comp....(I have used finings in keg just need to make sure to not bottle from keg until runs clear) .....just my 2 cents...GOOD LUCK at the Comp!

 

[signpost]

It's been a while since I brewed a Kolsch, but I definitely remember it got better with age. I know some people use Kolsch yeast for a lot of different styles and get good results even when it's pretty young. But when I used the 2565 Kolsch yeast, it took a long time to clear up at all. And it tasted very very yeasty before it cleared.

Although, I didn't have any way to cold crash it, so if you can do that you might be able to get it ready by that competition deadline.

 

[Magnus314]

No, probably not. Try a cleaner, more flocculant yeast.

 

[StoutHouse213]

I tried to purchase WLP029 from my LHBS and several online stores. White Labs must have made a bad batch because nearly every place I checked is out right now.

 

[dmtaylor]

Don't use 2565. Go with WLP029. You don't have time to fart around with the fart-monster and slow flocculation characteristics of 2565. Trust me, I've used each one a half dozen times. WLP029 is your friend.

 

[mona]

When you say fining you are referring to items such as gelatin correct? I have heard of a few ways of using gelatin. And some say to not use is a keg because it is a pain to get out. What do you use?

 

[mona]

Don't use 2565. Go with WLP029. You don't have time to fart around with the fart-monster and slow flocculation characteristics of 2565. Trust me, I've used each one a half dozen times. WLP029 is your friend.

My store does not carry white labs only Wyeast. That is the one I used before. Now I have been told that a German ale strand could work as well. But all in all I want a fast flocculation correct?

 

[dmtaylor]

Well you know...... you can still use 2565 if you want, or even the 1007 which personally I like even better.... and since neither of them flocculates all that well, you can use gelatin to knock the yeast out once you reach your terminal gravity goal. The 1007 might even be your better yeast for this. Give it a couple weeks to ferment out, then boil 1/2 cup water in the microwave for 2-3 minutes, add a 1/2 teaspoon of unflavored gelatin (I use Knox brand), stir to dissolve, cool slightly, and add to the fermented beer. Swirl the fermenter a little bit. The yeast should fall out within a couple of days, because gelatin and yeast stick together like glue. This way you can accelerate the process a bit and be done by end of April.

 

[ibes1955]

if you are going to shoot for an ale rather than lager (I know someone who does that but quite frankly, I wouldn't call it a Kolsch style), then you could try Wyeast 1007 - German Ale yeast and still ferment it at a somewhat lower temp. The White lab equivalents all state a sulpher component to them so I wouldn't use them. Otherwise, stick with the Wyeast 2565 and primary ferment around 58 or so for about 7 days. I would still rack to secondary and for about 24 hours increase the temp for a diacetyl rest, then lower the temp. Normally, I lower mine to approx 45, but in your case, put it back to 55 - 58. Once it clears, you should be ready to bottle. The big issue you might have is carbonation, because at a lower temp it will take longer. With your tight schedule I might try this:

3-26: brew day start fermentation about 65, once started lower to 58
4-2: rack to secondary, increase temp back around 65 for 24 hours
4-3: lower temp 55-58
4-13: bottle it
let bottle condition at room temp (or 60 - 65)

hope that helps

Brian

 

[mona]

if you are going to shoot for an ale rather than lager (I know someone who does that but quite frankly, I wouldn't call it a Kolsch style), then you could try Wyeast 1007 - German Ale yeast and still ferment it at a somewhat lower temp. The White lab equivalents all state a sulpher component to them so I wouldn't use them. Otherwise, stick with the Wyeast 2565 and primary ferment around 58 or so for about 7 days. I would still rack to secondary and for about 24 hours increase the temp for a diacetyl rest, then lower the temp. Normally, I lower mine to approx 45, but in your case, put it back to 55 - 58. Once it clears, you should be ready to bottle. The big issue you might have is carbonation, because at a lower temp it will take longer. With your tight schedule I might try this:

3-26: brew day start fermentation about 65, once started lower to 58
4-2: rack to secondary, increase temp back around 65 for 24 hours
4-3: lower temp 55-58
4-13: bottle it
let bottle condition at room temp (or 60 - 65)

hope that helps

Brian

Thank you for the input Brian. I am not going to worry about the carb because I am going to carb in a keg while it lagers for two weeks. Then I will bottle with my home made counter pressure bottle filler. I actually bottle most of my beer this way now. I drink what I want of the keg while I have another one fermenting away. When it is time for the next beer to go into the keg I bottle off what is left in the keg, clean, sanitize and transfer from fermentation to keg. Let it carb up over a week and I have filled up my pipeline as well. Only need two kegs so it works really well.

 

[ibes1955]

You're welcome... and if your kegging (I still haven't made the leap), then, I'm not telling you anything you don't already know but it makes me feel better..., you can leave it awhile longer in the secondary. Good Luck...

 

[Auger]

I jave a kolsch on tap now that I made with WLP029. Its been kegged for about 4 weeks and is really just coming into its flavor and smoothness. The previous batch I did, I actually brewed with Saflager 34/70. That one seemed to much much more flocculent than the 029, although taste-wise it took about the same amount of time to really clean up.

 

[mona]

I jave a kolsch on tap now that I made with WLP029. Its been kegged for about 4 weeks and is really just coming into its flavor and smoothness. The previous batch I did, I actually brewed with Saflager 34/70. That one seemed to much much more flocculent than the 029, although taste-wise it took about the same amount of time to really clean up.

I am hoping that this will clean up quick. As far as clarity I am going to hit it three times. Irish moss during the boil, Clarity Ferm during fermentation and then gelatin in the keg three days before i bottle. I am hoping that will clear it up and clean up the yeast esters with the gelatin

 

[Auger]

From my experience, the gelatin will not affect the taste at all (positively or negatively) which is why I like it. It is great for clarification though....I took this picture last night, this is the latest batch of kolsch made with WLP029.

 

[mona]

From my experience, the gelatin will not affect the taste at all (positively or negatively) which is why I like it. It is great for clarification though....I took this picture last night, this is the latest batch of kolsch made with WLP029.

That is a mighty clear beer. I have used gelatin before with good results. How long did you let that lager? At what point did you add the gelatin?

 

[Auger]

I did 1 week fermentation at about 62-65, bumped up to 68-70 for 3 days, then let sit at about 58 for 2 weeks. Kegged, let it cold crash for 3 days, then fined and let it sit for a week or so. This one cleared more slowly than the last one, even with hte gelatin. Last time I had beer that clear about 48 hrs after fining (with the saflager yeast). The 029 yeast took about a week after fining to really drop bright. Its been in the keg for almost a month now and the taste is finally coming together. This beer IMO is one that really needs a good 6-8 weeks to be at its best.

 

[Rhaop]

I did 1 week fermentation at about 62-65, bumped up to 68-70 for 3 days, then let sit at about 58 for 2 weeks. Kegged, let it cold crash for 3 days, then fined and let it sit for a week or so. This one cleared more slowly than the last one, even with hte gelatin. Last time I had beer that clear about 48 hrs after fining (with the saflager yeast). The 029 yeast took about a week after fining to really drop bright. Its been in the keg for almost a month now and the taste is finally coming together. This beer IMO is one that really needs a good 6-8 weeks to be at its best.

How much gelatin do you use? I read more then a few suggestions but a common usage was 1/2tsp in a cup, cold water then heat in microwave in spurts until about 150* then dump right in the fermenter after cold crashing

 

[dmtaylor]

How much gelatin do you use? I read more then a few suggestions but a common usage was 1/2tsp in a cup, cold water then heat in microwave in spurts until about 150* then dump right in the fermenter after cold crashing

I boil the water and then immediately add the gelatin and stir to dissolve. And it works fine. No dicking around with spurts and temperature measurement, just git 'r done. I used to use 1 tsp per 5 gallons but 1/2 tsp also seems to work.

 

[VictoryAle]

I've only used wyeast Kolsch once, but I guess I lucked out because I bottled after two weeks in primary (no cold crash) and after 3 weeks in the bottle I had a beer that wasn't exactly bright, but more clear than most yeasts I have used in the past (exception for Cali Lager and 1968). Maybe my standards for clarity are low..

 

[Auger]

How much gelatin do you use? I read more then a few suggestions but a common usage was 1/2tsp in a cup, cold water then heat in microwave in spurts until about 150* then dump right in the fermenter after cold crashing

I use half an envelope dissolved in about half a cup of 160 degree water per keg.

 

[mona]

I did it. I got third place in the competition. First time I entered a competition too.