Killing yeast when done fermenting

[Leeq]

Alright guys

I've dabbled in brewing, never anything fancy, just a very bog-standard suger-juice-yeast ferment for 7 days sort of job, haha. More just a little bit of fun than anything else.

I've got a gallon of cider that's done brewing, and was wondering.

What's the best way to kill all the yeast off and get rid of the sediment?

Campden tablets or pasteurizing? And could you explain how I'd go about doing either?

Also, how would I get rid of the sediment when siphoning the cider in to bottles?

Thanks guys

 

[gratus fermentatio]

When you rack (siphon), simply leave the lees (sediment) behind. Why do you want to "kill" the yeast? If you want a still (non-carbonated) cider, just rack & wait, you could degas if you're in a big hurry, but time is really on your side. If you want a sparkling (carbonated) cider you'll need the yeast for bottle conditioning. Yes, even after racking off the sediment there is still yeast in the cider. No need to pasteurize unless you're wanting a sweet, sparkling cider.
Regards, GF.

 

[hubs731]

I'm racking into a secondary tonight. I'd like a semi sweet carbonated cider myself. If I let it sit in the secondary too long it will become still? If so, how to make it carbonated?

 

[TopherM]

Do you bottle or keg? Very easy to backsweeten in a keg, a bit of a PITA to backsweeten in bottles, but very doable.

 

[hubs731]

Bottles

 

[MarkKF]

I'm racking into a secondary tonight. I'd like a semi sweet carbonated cider myself. If I let it sit in the secondary too long it will become still? If so, how to make it carbonated?

The time in the secondary does not effect the carbonation level. The only way to get carbonation is to bottle it with sugar or force co2 into it.

 

[hubs731]

Ok, thank you. Is there a certain amount of sugar to add and also what type of sugar? I will be bottling 5 gallons. Like I said, I'm racking to secondary tonight. Leave in primary until cider clears then bottle?

 

[bernardsmith]

Do you bottle or keg? Very easy to backsweeten in a keg, a bit of a PITA to backsweeten in bottles, but very doable.

Why is it a PITA to backsweeten in bottles? You stabilize the cider and then you add whatever amount of sugar you want to sweeten to the bottling bucket, rack onto the sweetener and bottle.. No pain. Same with carbonating. Only you don't stabilize and simply add enough sugar to prime the cider - add the sugar to the bottling bucket and then bottle.. again.. no pain. The PITA comes if you try to add sugar to each individual bottle... but who would do that?

 

[MarkKF]

It's easy to add priming sugar to make a carbonated dry cider. It's almost as easy to add sugar to make a sweetened still cider but to add enough sugar to make a carbonated sweetened cider and stop it from over carbonating is difficult. Unless you use a non-fermentable sweetener like stevia or xylitol.

 

[TopherM]

Why is it a PITA to backsweeten in bottles?

The OP seemed interested in backsweetening and carbonating his cider. There's alot of guesswork there unless you are using an unfermentable, but I have yet to find a sweet unfermentable that tastes good. If you have a foolproof way to backsweeten and carbonate a cider in bottles using sugar, I'd love to hear it. That combo has made many a fool out of really good brewers!

 

[kgressler]

The OP seemed interested in backsweetening and carbonating his cider. There's alot of guesswork there unless you are using an unfermentable, but I have yet to find a sweet unfermentable that tastes good. If you have a foolproof way to backsweeten and carbonate a cider in bottles using sugar, I'd love to hear it. That combo has made many a fool out of really good brewers!

Take a look
At CvilleKevins sticky up top. It is possible to make a sweet carbonated cider in a bottle that's not back sweetened.
I have 5 gallons bottled right now. Granted mine has only been bottled 3 weeks. I would say it's mildly carbonated.
He's used this with a handful of different yeasts. I used Nottingham but I highly recommend reading through his thread. There is a plethora of info in there.

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Ok, thank you. Is there a certain amount of sugar to add and also what type of sugar? I will be bottling 5 gallons. Like I said, I'm racking to secondary tonight. Leave in primary until cider clears then bottle?

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter11-4.html

It's for beer, but it works pretty much the same for cider. I'd prime for 2 - 2.5 volumes. At higher volumes, cider tends to gush a lot more than beer or wine.
Regards, GF.

 

[mdbrewer1]

Take a look
At CvilleKevins sticky up top. It is possible to make a sweet carbonated cider in a bottle that's not back sweetened.
I have 5 gallons bottled right now. Granted mine has only been bottled 3 weeks. I would say it's mildly carbonated.
He's used this with a handful of different yeasts. I used Nottingham but I highly recommend reading through his thread. There is a plethora of info in there.

I'm not seeing what you're referring to. The closest I could find was this

I have made bottle conditioned sweet sparkling cider using the following technique: Back sweeten a finished cider with (too much) fresh cider, and bottle in beer bottles. I bottled about 12 bottles in small 6oz bottles (called "nips"), and test a bottle about every two weeks. When the carbonation level got to where I wanted it to be, I then ran the rest of the bottles through the dishwasher to heat sanitize, and lock in that level of carbonation.

Is there another section that talks about a bottle conditioned sweet sparkling cider without back sweetening?

 

[kgressler]

I'm not seeing what you're referring to. The closest I could find was this



Is there another section that talks about a bottle conditioned sweet sparkling cider without back sweetening?

Results from juice, yeast and sugar experiments

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/results-juice-yeast-sugar-experiments-83060/

This is one of the stickys. It very long it took me 3-4 days to read through it but It worth it.

 

[mdbrewer1]

Results from juice, yeast and sugar experiments

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/results-juice-yeast-sugar-experiments-83060/

This is one of the stickys. It very long it took me 3-4 days to read through it but It worth it.

Ah. I was looking at the "Last Poster" and not the "Original Poster" when looking at the stickies.

I've read most of that thread too. It's a really good read, but pointing someone to a 98 page thread in a response to a specific question really isn't super helpful.

Can you be more specific as to the method you used? I'm guessing you're referring to this section

Finally, if you use Nottingham, S04 or a lager yeast and add sugar, enough of the yeast will stay close to the bottom that you can stop fermentation before the sg bottoms out just by racking a couple of times, which is a lot less hassle than cold crashing.

Did you rack multiple times to try to remove the yeast? If so, how many times did you rack? I'd be super leery of trying that myself. His initial reply in the thread talks about a bottle bomb. The method doesn't seem scientific enough for this engineer. I'm more than likely being overcautious, but I guess I'm not a big enough cider fan to risk it.

 

[solbes]

Be careful of stovetop or dishwasher pastuerization. I made my 3rd batch of cider this fall and attemped the stove top method in a 5G boil kettle. Booom.....Booooom.....Booommm. Next thing you know the lid blows off and its a war zone in our kitchen. I was leary initially but tried it anyway. The rest of the batch when into our fridge at 33F to stop fermentation.

Carbonation and backsweetening has worked for many people, but not this guy.

 

[kgressler]

Ah. I was looking at the "Last Poster" and not the "Original Poster" when looking at the stickies.

I've read most of that thread too. It's a really good read, but pointing someone to a 98 page thread in a response to a specific question really isn't super helpful.

Can you be more specific as to the method you used? I'm guessing you're referring to this section



Did you rack multiple times to try to remove the yeast? If so, how many times did you rack? I'd be super leery of trying that myself. His initial reply in the thread talks about a bottle bomb. The method doesn't seem scientific enough for this engineer. I'm more than likely being overcautious, but I guess I'm not a big enough cider fan to risk it.

Sorry I was pressed for time I will try and elaborate.

Basically, I used Notty I know he suggest using a few different Ale yeast that will cold crash.( You can find those in his thread.) 5.5 gallons of fresh cider not store bought. Pitched notty and let it ferment till its between 1.006 and 1.012 depending on how dry you want it.
Rack it to a new vessel and toss in a fridge for 2-5 days. If you want it carbed then he suggest bottling right out of that vessel. I chose to rack to a bottling bucket then bottle because it was easier to bottle from the spout then the siphon.
I bottled a PET plastic bottle every 4-5 glass ones for testing. Threw them in the basement and checked them everyday. If they began over carbing then You can toss your bottles in the fridge to stop them. Its been 3 weeks and mine as a moderate carb when opened it hisses with just a slight bit of bubbles running up the side of the bottle. No foam or anything.
He said he hasnt had a a bottle rocket yet.
BUt he did say he hasnt done it on store bought juice and doesnt recommend trying it either.
That was a quick run down how how I did it. Again I would refer to his sticky to get more in depth look in to the process.
Hopefully that was more helpful.

 

[mdbrewer1]

Using the multiple racking technique in the initial post, he says that he has had a bottle bomb. From post #3 in that thread https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/results-juice-yeast-sugar-experiments-83060/#post882248

You need to leave the yeast behind or you get bottle bombs. The stuff I bottled ranged from 1.002 to 1.010 when I bottled it last year and it was all still when I opened it last month (except for a few bottles that I filled from kegs). One exploded over the summer, so I guess I didnt get all the yeast out of that one. Normally I use the kegs to force carbonate, so these experiments were just for taste.

Your method is much the same as the backsweetening one, except that you'll end up with less alcohol in yours (assuming you started with the same amount of cider). Both utilize cold crashing/long term cooling or pasteurization to stop the yeast once the desired carbonation level is reached, but those who backsweeten will have had all of the original sugars turned into alcohol, while yours has some of the original sugars retained.

I've never made cider yet myself, so I could have this all wrong, but I read most of that mega thread and think I have a firm grasp on the basic mechanics involved.

 

[kgressler]

Using the multiple racking technique in the initial post, he says that he has had a bottle bomb. From post #3 in that thread https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/results-juice-yeast-sugar-experiments-83060/#post882248



Your method is much the same as the backsweetening one, except that you'll end up with less alcohol in yours (assuming you started with the same amount of cider). Both utilize cold crashing/long term cooling or pasteurization to stop the yeast once the desired carbonation level is reached, but those who backsweeten will have had all of the original sugars turned into alcohol, while yours has some of the original sugars retained.

I've never made cider yet myself, so I could have this all wrong, but I read most of that mega thread and think I have a firm grasp on the basic mechanics involved.

Sorry I forgot he did say he had one and if i remember he said it was many months later and the area he had it in was in the upper 90's or something.
I dont make my cider to get as much ABV as possible. I want a drinkable cider not gasoline. 5-8 ABV is what Im looking for I beleive anything higher is no longer cider but wine. If you are looking for high ABV drink then I probably cant help much.

If you read his thread he has done this for years and first began back sweetening but after many years and 100's of gallons later figured out that the best tasting cider is not through backsweetening but keeping the fermentation sugar and not burning through them.
And after trying this myself I concur....So far but I am only a few batches in.

I say experiment and see which way you prefer. ONe thing I've learned is there is no one way everyone has their preferred way. I was just giving you the way I learned how to do it.

Good luck with whichever way you choose!

 

[TopherM]

So believe me yet that carbonating a sweet cider in a bottle is a PITA?

I keg 4.5 gallons of dry cider and add 0.5 gallons of the same sweet juice I used to make the cider, then cold crash the keg to hibernate the yeast. Works perfectly every time!

 

[kgressler]

I've never kegged and its not an option for me at this point but I haven't found bottling a pain. Takes me about an hour and a half(ish) from start to finish including clean up. Not including cleaning the bottles beforehand which is done as I go so I always have clean bottles on hand.
But I am not bottle pasteurizing and from reading this is where a lot of the time is taken up.
At this point I can't see myself trying it either. Seems pretty risky and I like having all my fingers intact. If I want more carbonation than what I am getting with the way I am currently doing it then kegging would be definitely next option.
I do a lot of boating in the summer and taking a corny on the boat is just not an option so bottles are a better fit for me right now.

 

[TopherM]

I take corny kegs on my boat all the time We don't just cruise around doing keg stands, but we typically go out to a sand bar and enjoy the homebrew there!

 

[kgressler]

I take corny kegs on my boat all the time We don't just cruise around doing keg stands, but we typically go out to a sand bar and enjoy the homebrew there!

LOL Nice.:rockin:

The IL Dept of Natural Resources here is not real keen on the idea. All the lakes here have laws against alcoholic containers being over 1 gallon.

The Mississippi river is highly policed by both Missouri and Illinois since it borders both states. Water is run by the highway patrol in Missouri and they don't play.

While its legal to drink while boating its obviously not legal being drunk while boating and these guys on the river stalk the beaches while idling by and will pull people over for "Safety Inspection".
I've been pulled over a half dozens times while leaving the beach because I am positive they saw me with a beer bottle in my hand earlier in the day.

I have a few drinks here and there while beached or anchored but I am very careful of how much I have and carry a breathalyser as a fail safe.