Kill and restart

[Owly055]

My high alcohol brew targeted for 17.9% ABV stalled at about 16%, and of course is way too sweet. The original yeast was a champagne yeast. Lalvin EC 1118. I began fermentation with US-05, and fermented the original wort out before adding invert sugar syrup and pitching the EC 1118.
I did a lot of oxygenation, and gradually added the syrup which was diluted with water to make up a volume equal to the original wort. The fermentation slowed way down in spite of the oxygenation and the fact that I mixed yeast energizer with my syrup, and at about 16% it more or less stalled.

Everything I've read points to the fact that wine yeasts will pretty much kill of beer yeasts with one exception, and it isn't EC 1118.

Today I killed off my EC 1118 by using the sous vide, and raising the temp to 160 in a stock pot, then allowing it to slow cool. I then transferred to a fermenter which I had just racked off, and which had a significant yeast cake of WLP 099 in hopes that this yeast will finish the fermentation. There is far too much residual sweetness.

This is what I call "remedial brewing".......

............. Thoughts? Suggestions?

H.W.

 

[MizzouFermentationScience]

My first thought is that 18% is unattainable. 1118 is a solid wine fermenter, V116 is ballsyer, and VIN 13 is a stud- all of these are the big guns in the wine world and none are advertised to go north of 16.5%. There is turbo yeast which goes to 18% I think, but it's designed for distillers and apparently tastes like a garbage fire. Restarting at 16% will be a near impossibility- restarting at any ABV is difficult and requires cleansing, light fining, extremely tedious rehydration and acclimatization, and dilution. Extremely high ABV beers are a magic trick with proprietary yeast treatments and/or icing.

 

[bigdawg86]

I have a RIS going right now (1.135OG) that I am afraid of stalling... just to be sure I pitched a HUGE starter. 2L stepped to 4L, then stepped to 4L again. Total 10L starter! Hope that does the trick. My poor fermentor is blowing off hardcore right now even starting low temp 60°

 

[Owly055]

My first thought is that 18% is unattainable. 1118 is a solid wine fermenter, V116 is ballsyer, and VIN 13 is a stud- all of these are the big guns in the wine world and none are advertised to go north of 16.5%. There is turbo yeast which goes to 18% I think, but it's designed for distillers and apparently tastes like a garbage fire. Restarting at 16% will be a near impossibility- restarting at any ABV is difficult and requires cleansing, light fining, extremely tedious rehydration and acclimatization, and dilution. Extremely high ABV beers are a magic trick with proprietary yeast treatments and/or icing.

The 1118 by some accounts can go over 18%...... but obviously didn't in my case. I'm trying to make a "gin beer", and I selected the 1118 because it was a wine yeast, and I felt it would give a pretty neutral flavor. The WLP 099 is supposedly good in excess of 20%, but while it's going balls to the wall in the other two fermenters, it doesn't seem to be taking hold in this brew. I transferred the brew on top of a yeast cake, and I've been top cropping directly into this fermenter from the other two which have lots of nice yeast rafts. So far I've pitched 4 top crops...... It should take hold..... I hope.

H.W.

 

[Comfort_Zone]

Acclimation and cleansing will definitely be necessary. I'd be concerned about any residual competitive factor lurking as that will bring any fermentation you might get to a halt. In the future consider using one really robust yeast or starting with a yeast for the desired flavor profile and then a beefier one for abv. Personally, I'm having phenomenal luck with TYB dry Belgian ale. Currently got a RIS at just north of 18% after all the sugar additions and I'm kinda just letting it go until it stops.

 

[bigdawg86]

Acclimation and cleansing will definitely be necessary. I'd be concerned about any residual competitive factor lurking as that will bring any fermentation you might get to a halt. In the future consider using one really robust yeast or starting with a yeast for the desired flavor profile and then a beefier one for abv. Personally, I'm having phenomenal luck with TYB dry Belgian ale. Currently got a RIS at just north of 18% after all the sugar additions and I'm kinda just letting it go until it stops.

Wow... I just looked at the attenuation specs 85-100% ?! That's nuts... may have to look into that. Would that be a good saison yeast?

 

[Jaybird]

I would suggest if you cant get it started do a 1 gallon tester and then toss in some Whiskey Distillers yeast. It has a good flavor profile that is not really skank like some of the others.

Here is the stuff I am talking about. I had a customer doing a HUGE RIS and used this to kick it off. Beer was amazing!

http://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Still-Spirits-Whiskey-Turbo-Yeast-72-Gram.html

Cheers
Jay

 

[Comfort_Zone]

Wow... I just looked at the attenuation specs 85-100% ?! That's nuts... may have to look into that. Would that be a good saison yeast?

It's quite the yeast. The flavor of it is more reminiscent of something like the duvel strain, with less bubblegum. Not sure how it would work in a saison but there's always a first for everything!

Edit: Jaybird might be onto something with the distillers yeast. Doing a small tester would be a wise decision.