Kickstarter for SS Mash Tun, Kettle and Fermenter

[douglasbarbin]

Everybody loses some quality assurance when they outsource manufacturing regardless of where. Very little is not manufactured in China.

Good point. I agree.

Please do not throw stones at Chapman if you do not have skin in the game. The shot at the SS is just a cheap one, raise your game.

I don't think his purchase or non-purchase is relevant to his concerns. I don't think he was necessarily throwing stones at Chapman; I think he has some legitimate concerns about the product. The unpassivated SS is a major concern, not a "cheap shot", in my opinion.

I have a ThermoBarrel and a Steel Barrel, both have pros and cons but I cannot cast muck on their first production run. Both are shiny and the finish are much better than I have expected.

I understand that it's their first production run, but there seem to be some serious concerns with the design and manufacturing quality of these products. Most of us are more worried about that instead of whether or not they are shiny.

Every flaw that they have found they have identified and offered to correct on their dime. Chapman is doing a better job of taking care of their customers over products that cost hundreds and not thousands of dollars, which could not be said for the car companies that are delivering products manufactured from foreign made parts and only owning the problem when they get caught.

I agree here. Chapman has been absolutely great about offering to replace/refund defective products. I'm not sold on the products yet, but I am sold on Chapman's customer service.

 

[JayDog]

I was under the belief that the whole point of a Kickstarter was to get everything off the ground. What manufacturer has gotten perfect equipment on a first production run. That's why you get a good deal. So they can see what they need to fine tune. Now if your equipment is not functional that's a whole other problem. But a dent or volume marks are minor imo.

 

[decoleur]

I don't think his purchase or non-purchase is relevant to his concerns. I don't think he was necessarily throwing stones at Chapman; I think he has some legitimate concerns about the product. The unpassivated SS is a major concern, not a "cheap shot", in my opinion.

I agree unpassivated SS is a real concern, I thought this was rehashing 201 vs. 304. I have two products from Chapman and I am pretty sure mine were passivated. If the one example kettle wasn't passivated don't you think that the rust sports would have been more prevalent? This could be a manufacturing process problem but I did not see it as a total product failure. So painting the flaws with such broad strokes seemed a bit heavy handed to me and prompted my response.

Cheers!

 

[douglasbarbin]

If the one example kettle wasn't passivated don't you think that the rust sports would have been more prevalent?

Not on a kettle this new. He said that all he did with the kettle "is wash it with PBW and a soft wash cloth one time and let water sit in it once for about an hour, and then for 4 hours as a water test". Presumably the pictures are from the next few days. That really isn't enough time for any serious rust to start building up. The fact that there is any rusting/pitting at all is very discomforting to me.

 

[chewse]

Let me say first that I purchased both a 15 gal MT and a 15 gal BK through the kickstarter program. I'm yet to use either due to my work schedule.

My perception of the kickstarter program was to help launch Steve's business and at the same time receive standard to above standard quality equipment. Although I received a discount on the products, I was hoping the equipment would be more plug and play without me having to worry about the design, quality and adaptability of the equipment.

I intend to use the Chapman equipment for maybe 2 batches a month so I'm not too concerned about the issues raised so far. I do think Steve is a stand up guy and is doing his best to make things right. And I truly wish his company can compete against the other manufacturers on quality and price in the long run because this will result in better innovative and higher quality products for us all.

 

[user 204491]

Not on a kettle this new. He said that all he did with the kettle "is wash it with PBW and a soft wash cloth one time and let water sit in it once for about an hour, and then for 4 hours as a water test". Presumably the pictures are from the next few days. That really isn't enough time for any serious rust to start building up. The fact that there is any rusting/pitting at all is very discomforting to me.

Yes, confirming that is in fact all I did with this kettle. Those spots were present the next morning after the water test. I've actually not looked to see if it's got any worse, but I will check tonight.

To be clear, I actually mentioned to Steve via email that I thought somehow the manufacturer may have "covered up" these spots and the pockmark from welding, and my PBW/water test washed away whatever they uses.

This is just my theory, but I noticed that the area around several of them is highly polished, more so than any other parts of the kettles, and I don't see how I would have missed that pockmark during my initial inspection.

 

[user 204491]

Well, gang, at this point I have to say I'm sorry, but I have given up on Chapman products.

This past Monday I received my replacement kettle for the one that had the rust issues (see above), and after doing a water test in this new one, it actually has worse rust and defects than the other one.

Here are some pictures.

This is the inside of the kettle, back, where the handle is welded on:

Sorry for the blurry image, but daylight was getting short. This is three large rust spots near the bottom rear of the kettle:

This is not rust, but another pockmark on the inside front of the kettle where the handle is welded on:

Both of the welded on couplings have these types of strange marks, and this weld is pretty discolored (called this out to Steve prior to starting the water test):

I am also having serious problems with the coupling for the ball valve. Despite my best efforts last night I could not get it to seal (and let me tell you, I torqued the hell out of it), and leaving it over night it had lost 1/2 gallon of water. I also had a hell of a time getting anything to screw in to the inside portion of the coupling. Anything I tried would go about a 1/4 turn, get all cockeyed, and then lockup. Just hand tightening a NPT nipple got it stuck so bad I had to use channel locks to unstick it. I tried two different street 90s, and after hitting one with a hammer a couple of times I got it to thread in, but again it would only go about 1/4 turn before locking up. Luckily that 1/4 turn just happened to be the right position so I lucked out there.

When I initially contacted Steve about the leaking he suggested I try it again using more Teflon tape. That's when I went out to drain the kettle, and found the defects inside. I went ahead and wrapped a mile of Teflon tape around it, but again, within about 30 minutes it started leaking again.

I've reached back out to Steve and requested a refund. Again, I've got nothing but positive remarks to say about his customer service, but his products are definitely lacking in quality. As I told him, even at the Kickstarter prices, a rusty kettle is pretty worthless.

Again, just to be perfectly clear, the only thing I've done with this new kettle was let water sit in it for about 24 hours.

I'm keeping the Thermobarrel as I've already modified it, and I sold off the fermenter as soon as it arrived, so now I'm in the market for a new kettle.

 

[Gavin C]

..thorough and fair with great pics

Thanks for taking the time to put this together and being so detailed in your review. Very useful to future potential buyers. Very nice job!

That is pretty damning evidence and is fairly demonstrative of the design and quality control inadequacies evident throughout.

 

[user 204491]

Yeah, you know I actually felt kinda bad posting the pics here as Steve genuinely seems like such a nice guy (our email exchange is about 30 replies at this point). I just think maybe his manufacturer took advantage of him here and he's stuck with the end product.

I have no doubt that he'll make good on his offer for a refund.

I'm still slightly puzzled though as he says no one else has reported this while after 2 kettles I've had a 100% defect rate. While not statistically impossible, it is highly improbable.

Right now I'm looking at kettles from Brew International and SS Brewtech, but an open for other suggestions!

I basically want a kettle more or less like the Chapman without the issues.

 

[Gavin C]

Yeah, you know I actually felt kinda bad posting the pics here as Steve genuinely seems like such a nice guy (our email exchange is about 30 replies at this point). I just think maybe his manufacturer took advantage of him here and he's stuck with the end product.

I have no doubt that he'll make good on his offer for a refund.

I'm still slightly puzzled though as he says no one else has reported this while after 2 kettles I've had a 100% defect rate. While not statistically impossible, it is highly improbable.

Right now I'm looking at kettles from Brew International and SS Brewtech, but an open for other suggestions!

I basically want a kettle more or less like the Chapman within the issues.

Reading your posts throughout the thread you have been entirely balanced and fair in your assessment. I too would have no doubt that you will get a full refund as promised. I had no problems getting mine through kickstarter and Chapman.

I agree, statistically highly improbable if not impossible.

Again. Very thorough and fair. Hat's off.

 

[hunter_le five]

****, maybe I won't be buying one of their fermenters after all....

 

[Roadliner]

I get home next week.. Plan on brewing something a few weeks after that.. so hopefully within the next month I'll have something in one of the fermenters as well as a use of the thermo barrel. and will let you guys know, if someone doesn't beat me to it.

 

[user 204491]

Update. So I've heard back from Chapman this morning and am working with him on the logistics for the return/refund. Again, seems like a stand up guy, I just got two bad pieces of gear in a row from him. Could just be terrible luck or a sign of a more widespread issue.

After researching kettles for a day or so I finally settled on the Blichman G2 10 gallon kettle. I'm going to swap out that custom valve for a standard 3-piece ball valve, and I should be all set.

I wound up comparing kettles from Colorado Brewing, Spike, Morebeer's BrewBuilt, and SS Brewing in addition to the Blichman.

After comparing everything, the Blichman, while definitely the most expensive, just really seemed to be a quality piece of gear, one that will last forever, and should I decide to move to larger batches in the future, I could use it as my HLT, sell my current HLT & MLT, and at that point I'd go with the SS Brewtech MLT and another Blichman for the BK (both larger than the ones I have now).

The BrewBuilt and SS Brewing were both tied for 2nd place. They seem very similar, while the BrewBuilt is $25 more.

 

[chewse]

Last weekend, I brewed a pumpkin ale using my new 15 gallon Chapman boil kettle. The kettle seemed to perform nicely. However, when cleaning the kettle, I noticed one side of the inside of the pot showed a lot of metal discoloration / metal fatigue. I didn't notice an unbalance flame with my burner and the wind was blowing only mildly. So I'm not quite sure what happened. I've not seen this much metal discoloration in my other pots.

Given the issues that some are having, I thought I'd show a possible new issue with the metal in the pot.

 

[izzie]

I received my fermenter last week. Installed the bulkhead and valve. Hit it with pbw, rinse, and sanitized. Seal was good, ten gallons of brown ale in there. Shortly after that a package showed up with the updated bulkhead. I had assumed the updated equipment shipped with the kettle. It's working well and now I have some spare parts. One of the latches for the lid was a little wonky, but seals up fine.

For the price I paid, it's a deal. I'd buy a few more at that price given the opportunity. Retail price maybe not.

 

[user 204491]

Last weekend, I brewed a pumpkin ale using my new 15 gallon Chapman boil kettle. The kettle seemed to perform nicely. However, when cleaning the kettle, I noticed one side of the inside of the pot showed a lot of metal discoloration / metal fatigue. I didn't notice an unbalance flame with my burner and the wind was blowing only mildly. So I'm not quite sure what happened. I've not seen this much metal discoloration in my other pots.

Given the issues that some are having, I thought I'd show a possible new issue with the metal in the pot.

Oh no, that looks pretty bad! Have you been in contact with Chapman?

 

[chewse]

Oh no, that looks pretty bad! Have you been in contact with Chapman?

Not yet..not sure if this is a breakdown in the metal or cosmetic.

 

[lschiavo]

I probably missed some posts but have you guys tried scrubbing these with BKF? Maybe the passivization was skipped in the factory and that is all it would take to fix these up. I've seen a few spots on my keggles that disappear with a little scrub.

 

[douglasbarbin]

This is exactly why I don't like cutting corners to save a couple bucks...

 

[brewslinger]

I probably missed some posts but have you guys tried scrubbing these with BKF? Maybe the passivization was skipped in the factory and that is all it would take to fix these up. I've seen a few spots on my keggles that disappear with a little scrub.

This is exactly my plan before I use the equipment I got.
FYI: I found some BKF at Ace Hardware after a lot of searching at Walmart.

Does anyone have any tips on how to use it correctly to repassivate the metal before use just in case it wasn't done in the first place?

 

[cowboy1]

Well, gang, at this point I have to say I'm sorry, but I have given up on Chapman products.

This past Monday I received my replacement kettle for the one that had the rust issues (see above), and after doing a water test in this new one, it actually has worse rust and defects than the other one.

Here are some pictures.

This is the inside of the kettle, back, where the handle is welded on:

Sorry for the blurry image, but daylight was getting short. This is three large rust spots near the bottom rear of the kettle:

This is not rust, but another pockmark on the inside front of the kettle where the handle is welded on:

Both of the welded on couplings have these types of strange marks, and this weld is pretty discolored (called this out to Steve prior to starting the water test):

I am also having serious problems with the coupling for the ball valve. Despite my best efforts last night I could not get it to seal (and let me tell you, I torqued the hell out of it), and leaving it over night it had lost 1/2 gallon of water. I also had a hell of a time getting anything to screw in to the inside portion of the coupling. Anything I tried would go about a 1/4 turn, get all cockeyed, and then lockup. Just hand tightening a NPT nipple got it stuck so bad I had to use channel locks to unstick it. I tried two different street 90s, and after hitting one with a hammer a couple of times I got it to thread in, but again it would only go about 1/4 turn before locking up. Luckily that 1/4 turn just happened to be the right position so I lucked out there.

When I initially contacted Steve about the leaking he suggested I try it again using more Teflon tape. That's when I went out to drain the kettle, and found the defects inside. I went ahead and wrapped a mile of Teflon tape around it, but again, within about 30 minutes it started leaking again.

I've reached back out to Steve and requested a refund. Again, I've got nothing but positive remarks to say about his customer service, but his products are definitely lacking in quality. As I told him, even at the Kickstarter prices, a rusty kettle is pretty worthless.

Again, just to be perfectly clear, the only thing I've done with this new kettle was let water sit in it for about 24 hours.

I'm keeping the Thermobarrel as I've already modified it, and I sold off the fermenter as soon as it arrived, so now I'm in the market for a new kettle.

Top picture looks like a arc mark where it was hit with the TIG torch by accident and not brushed clean. If you are looking for a new kettle let me price one for you. I use kegs if you are interested PM me I can build anything you can imagine.

 

[user 204491]

Top picture looks like a arc mark where it was hit with the TIG torch by accident and not brushed clean. If you are looking for a new kettle let me price one for you. I use kegs if you are interested PM me I can build anything you can imagine.

Thanks, I appreciate it, but I've already purchased another kettle. I decided to go with a Blichman G2.

 

[ingchr1]

Just wanted to pass along something I found with the bulkheads on the ThermoBarrel. I pulled the bulkheads for assembly and noticed one of them to have a good amount of green and brown rust/corrosion on the inside (3/8" portion of the bulkhead only). I contacted Chapman and they did send me out another one, but I noticed that one also had a couple of brown spots in it as well. I've contacted them again.

I don't think I would have noticed it had I not pulled them apart. I did put a hard drive magnet up to them and it does not stick, if anything can be concluded from that. I also had another one in and out of water for several days and it did not discolor.

I think I may try some bar keepers friend on them.

Hard to get a good picture but here's the original one, after cleaning:

 

[user 204491]

Just wanted to pass along something I found with the bulkheads on the ThermoBarrel. I pulled the bulkheads for assembly and noticed one of them to have a good amount of green and brown rust/corrosion on the inside. I contacted Chapman and they did send me out another one, but I noticed that one also had a couple of brown spots in it as well. I've contacted them again.

I don't think I would have noticed it had I not pulled them apart. I did put a hard drive magnet up to them and it does not stick, if anything can be concluded from that. I also had another one in and out of water for several days and it did not discolor.

I think I may try some bar keepers friend on them.

Hard to get a good picture but here's the original one, after cleaning:
View attachment 306683

Oh no, not the Thermobarrels now too! Hard to tell from your picture exactly, but are you finding the rust/corrosion on the...

Custom 1/2" > 3/8" reducing bulkheads that are mounted inside the Thermobarrel?

NPT nipple?

The ball valve itself?

 

[ingchr1]

On the inside of the 3/8" portion of the bulkhead.

 

[user 204491]

On the inside of the 3/8" portion of the bulkhead.

Got it. Thanks for posting the pictures. Looks like one more thing to watch out for with this gear. Unfortunately that seems very difficult to spot unless you remove the bulkhead, but I'll try to keep an eye out on mine.

Doing my final end-to-end test of my new single tier, single pump system this Saturday (which uses a 10 gallon Chapman Thermobarrel), and then hopefully brewing on Sunday. I'll report back if I notice any issues.

 

[Frostbrewer]

How about some positive press for this stuff? Lol. Poor steve has been put through the wringer lately

I have two fermentation buckets. My first one didn't clamp properly so steve replaced it. Awesome!

I brewed an oktoberfest in the first bucket while the other was in the mail. Worked great! No rust issues and cleanup after the transfer to the keg was super easy. Really happy with my buckets.

I hope there are other positive reviews out there

 

[ingchr1]

Unfortunately that seems very difficult to spot unless you remove the bulkhead

Exactly, don't think I would have noticed it had I not removed them.

Also, all of them needed a good cleaning with a brush in that 3/8" section.

 

[val214]

Sad, to hear you guys are having problems with your gear. I have modified and brewed 4 batches with my thermobarrel with no issues.

 

[ingchr1]

Sad, to hear you guys are having problems with your gear.

I'm not too bothered by it, it will get resolved. I'm thinking some bar keepers friend to passivate them. I have no problem taking care of that myself, and if it fixes them then that will be that. My posting up is more so others will inspect theirs, since it may not be readily apparent with them installed.

Overall I'm still happy with my purchase, and can't wait to brew with it.