Kentucky Common Ale..

[Turbo26]

After researching this beer and being from Kentucky, I can guarantee this style of beer was never meant to be soured.. Sour mash is typically a Tennessee style whiskey.. Bourbon never used that technique .. So if the Brewers from Kentucky were to use local styles and techniques, sour mash would be way out of the question.. If the beer was soured, it was poor sanitation.. So I'm pretty sure to say that a Kentucky Common Ale would not be soured..

 

[dmtaylor]

You sound just like Gordon. Of course, no one really knows for sure. This debate might never end.

 

[Yooper]

Yes, that is the common belief. I was talking to a friend at the NHC 2015 in San Diego, and we all agree that Kentucky common was not a sour style. It only was soured when it was old.

I'd have to listen to the seminar again (my memory stinks) but there was no disagreement on that as far as I can remember. (I didn't go to the seminar, but we chatted a lot at 2014 and 2015 NHC).

Can everybody see Dibbs' write up on Kentucky Common? http://www.bjcp.org/docs/NHC2014-kycommon-handout.pdf

 

[Turbo26]

Disregard this post.. Haha.. My girlfriend knows Ive been researching the Kentucky Common and she posted this on my behalf for revenge on an earlier prank I did against her.. Haha.. She got me.. Of course bourbon uses sour mash. She thought someoneone out there would be very happy to correct me.. Left my account open as I went to get her pizza.. Sooo wrong.. Haha.. Shes a gem!

 

[Turbo26]

But since I got your attention, Im gonna try a partial mash of this beer, but Ive never done a partial mash.. Sort of.. I wanna add 2.5lbs of flaked maize, along with extract.. Talk to me as if Im completely stupid and walk me through the steps of mashing flaked corn, then adding it to an extract based boil.. Thank you in advance

 

[MonkeyBot]

But since I got your attention, Im gonna try a partial mash of this beer, but Ive never done a partial mash.. Sort of.. I wanna add 2.5lbs of flaked maize, along with extract.. Talk to me as if Im completely stupid and walk me through the steps of mashing flaked corn, then adding it to an extract based boil.. Thank you in advance

I just read Yooper's link and now I want to make this beer according to that document, so no sour mashing. Anyway, you could do a cereal mash like the document mentions and make the rest up in extract and steeped specialty grains. So try something like:

• Heat up about a gallon or so of water to 160 or so and then add 2.5lb maize and 1lb 6-row
• Hold temp for 15 minutes or so then bring to a boil
• Boil for 15 minutes

After that just use extract to make up the remainder of the malt bill and steep some crystal and black/chocolate malt. Since you're not doing a full mash after the cereal mash, maybe hold temp for 30 minutes instead. I'm not an expert here so I'm not sure how much conversion you'll get here but you should definitely get some corn flavor and starch conversion.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

Very interesting, indeed - as an historian, I love things such as this.

Does anyone have a reliable 1-gallon recipe for this, without the sour mash?

 

[MonkeyBot]

Very interesting, indeed - as an historian, I love things such as this.

Does anyone have a reliable 1-gallon recipe for this, without the sour mash?

I haven't made it but something like this (assuming pretty bad efficiency):

1.6 lbs 6-row
1 lb grits
.8 oz black malt
.4 oz crystal 120
.25 oz cluster hops @60 min
Optional .25 hallertau @5 min

That's what I came up with. I actually have a 4 hop addition version for 5 gallons but that gets silly at 1 gallon.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

I haven't made it but something like this (assuming pretty bad efficiency):

1.6 lbs 6-row
1 lb grits
.8 oz black malt
.4 oz crystal 120
.25 oz cluster hops @60 min
Optional .25 hallertau @5 min

That's what I came up with. I actually have a 4 hop addition version for 5 gallons but that gets silly at 1 gallon.

Thanks, Monkeybot - I will see about giving it a try.

Question: "cluster hops?"

 

[MonkeyBot]

Thanks, Monkeybot - I will see about giving it a try.

Question: "cluster hops?"

It's a type of US hops. I was on my phone so it should've been Cluster hops.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

Understood - and thanks again!

 

[MonkeyBot]

Don't thank me yet. I've never brewed it so have no idea how good the final product will be

 

[TasunkaWitko]

No worries there - as long as it is a reasonable and plausible adaptation of the original, taste is secondary!

 

[MonkeyBot]

The grain bill hits all the percentages according to the article Yooper linked and the hops match their best guesses. For pure historical accuracy you'll want to do a cereal mash with the corn and ~6 oz of the 6-row first but that seems a bit unnecessary for a 1 gal batch.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

For pure historical accuracy you'll want to do a cereal mash with the corn and ~6 oz of the 6-row first but that seems a bit unnecessary for a 1 gal batch.

Agreed ~

 

[Turbo26]

Awesome.. Thank you guys so much for the knowledge.. Probably gonna try this tomorow evening.. Much appreciated!! Cheers!

 

[Turbo26]

Ill be doing a 5 gallon batch.. Its a Christmas present for a fly fishing buddy of mine.. I prefer historical accuracy over flavor.. I want it to be like 1900.. He will dig it no matter what.. Thanks again

 

[Turbo26]

Could Halleratau be used instead of Cluster? Local store has Halleratau, but I could order Cluster if needed.. Just checking

 

[MonkeyBot]

Could Halleratau be used instead of Cluster? Local store has Halleratau, but I could order Cluster if needed.. Just checking

I don't see why not. Historically there were probably 3 different hops added in 4 additions. Also the Cluster are bittering hops so almost all of the flavor is gone from them by the end of the boil. Just make sure to use a bit more Hallertau since it has a lower amount of alpha acids.

 

[MonkeyBot]

@TasunkaWitko and @Turbo26 Either of you brewed this yet? Any early impressions if you have? Only been a couple weeks but that should be enough time to get an idea how it's turning out.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

It's going to be a while before I can try it, as my closest LHBS is over 200 miles away - but when I get the opportunity to do so, I will!

 

[Turbo26]

Hey Monkeybot.. I haven't brewed it yet.. I had to get my kegerator filled up for the start of the college basketball season first.. Haha.. I've got all ingredients except the hops... Im probably gonna brew it this Friday.. I've also been painting the whole house, so between brewing my basketball beers, painting, and working, time has been tight..

 

[MonkeyBot]

Well that's rough! I'm at max bottling capacity (actually over since I have 10 gallons currently in secondary because I can't bottle them) otherwise I would try this as my next brew.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

Just a general FYI - I still intend to get this one done. I'll probably get it going sometime in the late summer or fall, but it's a goal.

I'm thinking I might as well go with the four hop additions (I could be wrong, but it was 2 additions of Cluster and 2 of Hallertau?). Even though it's just a gallon-sized batch, I like the idea of keeping it true to the original. Any suggestions on a schedule that approximates the original would be appreciated.

Also, some suggestion as to a yeast would be helpful, as well. I can go with a general beer-making yeast, if that sounds "plausible" to the original idea, or I could of course get something a little more specific, if that would be more true to the original.

When the time comes, I'll probably need a little guidance on this concept of cereal (not sour) mash.

Thanks -

Ron

 

[Aristotelian]

From what I read about this beer, you don't need to do a cereal mash if you just use flaked (pre-gelatinized) corn.

I made this with US-05. I also think Nottingham or any American or English yeast would be good depending on what you want.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

Hi, Aristotelian, and thanks for the suggestion. If the flaked corn duplicates the effects of the cereal mash, then I probably would go that route, as it is a process I am unfamiliar with at this time.

As for yeast, US-05 or something similar sounds like just the ticket.

Thanks!

 

[TasunkaWitko]

I am not claiming any expertise, but based on that little there is available (sources below), and extrapolating from the known to the vague, I've developed what I think is a reasonably-plausible adaptation.

This 1-gallon adaptation bypasses the corn-grit cereal mash with flaked corn and employs a 60-minute boil, rather than 120 minutes. The caramel malt that I chose was due to its middle-of-the-road quality, while the hops and yeast seem to be the best compromise between what was described and what is available. Northern Brewer is probably not exactly the right bittering hop, but it seems to be the closest that I can find to "California Gray." I chose Hallertau rather than Saaz as an aroma hop because I believe that the Germans who were doing the brewing would have used this Bavarian variety.

Based on the statistics, this adaptation seems to fit the BJCP guidelines fairly well; not perfectly, by any means, but to the point where the average home-brewer in 2016 can give it a go.

Anyway, here it is:

Kentucky Common Ale
TasunkaWitko's Adaptation

1 Gallon, All-Grain

OG - 1.050
FG - 1.012

ABV - 5.07%
IBUs - 27.21

Grain percentages:

60% 6-Row Pale Malt
37% Corn Grits
1.75% Black Malt
1.25% Caramel Malt

Based on 10-gallon adaptation, 1 gallon contains 1.825 pounds total grains = 29.2 ounces

Available information converted to 1 gallon:

17.52 ounces = 1.095 pounds 6-Row Pale Malt
10.8 ounces = 0.675 pounds Flaked Corn
0.5 ounces = 0.031 pounds Black Malt
0.4 ounces = 0.025 pounds Caramel/Crystal 60 Malt

Mash - 156 to 158 degrees

60-minute boil

Hops:

Northern Brewer - 1.4 grams = 0.05 ounces @ 60 minutes
Northern Brewer - 2.8 grams = 0.1 ounces @ 45 minutes
Cluster - 2.1 grams = 0.075 ounces @ 15 minutes
Hallertau - 1.4 grams = 0.05 ounces @ Flameout

Irish Moss - 2.5 grams = 0.09 ounces = 1/2 teaspoon @ 15 minutes

Yeast - Safale US-05 - 1/2 package = 5.5g

Sources:

http://www.bjcp.org/docs/NHC2014-kycommon-handout.pdf
http://bjcp.org/docs/2015_Guidelines_Beer.pdf - pg 55
http://www.seriouseats.com/2014/05/...e-saaz-fuggle-cascade-citra-beer-flavors.html
http://brooklynbrewshop.com/themash/hop-of-the-month-northern-brewer/

 

[Aristotelian]

I would suggest lower mash temp. From my understanding, this is supposed to be a refreshing session beer. It is basically a cream ale with a little bit of roasted barley or chocolate malt for color. I don't think I have ever seen a recommended mash temp for any beer as high as 158, especially not a session beer like Kentucky Common.

From what I have seen, Cluster is the only hop you want to use for a true Kentucky Common. Sure, you can mix it up, but if you want to get it to the original receipe, I would replace the NB with more Cluster.

4 days sounds awfully short to me. Make sure it is done fermenting before you bottle. Could be 4 days, could be 10 days. In my experience, US-05 can take a while, sometimes 48 hours just to get started.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

Hi, Aristotelian - thanks for the feedback. I can definitely look into those suggestions.

The suggestion of lower mash temps make sense and were just a guess based on the sources I had. One thing that I tried to keep in mind is that tastes back then are were almost certainly different than taste preferences now. I have no way of proving it, but I am sure that in those days before Budweiser, Coors, Miller etc., I am certain that a more full-bodied, robust beer would have been the norm, especially for working men at the end of the day.

I really probably should give it the full 10-ish days of fermentation. Between my reading of the articles and the recent reading I've been doing on Edelweiss beer, I just sort of went along with the 3- to 4-day concept. Going with the more "normal" schedule would not significantly change the beer, and might possibly avoid some pitfalls.

On that note, I did not put the OG and FG in my "recipe" above, mainly because I simply don't use them in my brewing. I have edited my OP in order to provide those statistics.

As for hops, I was just throwing in some "best educated guesses," so I am certainly open to suggestions. The sources I had definitely mention a noble hop at the end for aroma, but for the bittering hops, it is pretty vague. The only clue I have is something described as "Western Hops (probably California Gray or a variant)" used for bittering with "New York Hops (almost assuredly Cluster)" in the middle for flavor, with an "imported" noble hop at "knockout" for aroma. It seems that there were often substitutions due to availability, as well. I'm reasonably confident about the Cluster and Hallertau usage, but the Northern Brewer was just a guess, following my reading of a few articles dealing with Western/California-style brewing. If I could find something that points to a definite available example of "Western" or "California Gray" hops, that would be awesome.

 

[Aristotelian]

Keep in mind, they were putting this stuff in barrels if I understand correctly. You are putting it in bottles. If you put it in bottles - especially without checking gravity - that is a recipe for bombs.