Kegging Without CO2 Tank

[ayrlander]

Hi, all! I am considering switching from bottles to kegs, the new MoreBeer Torpedo keg is calling to me. I do small batches (1-2 gallons generally), and do not have money or space for a separate CO2 tank and regulator. My plan is to naturally carbonate with cane sugar, then use a CO2 charger for dispensing.

But being a newbie to kegs, I had some questions. I searched but did not find clear answers, if any, so please forgive me if I'm asking questions others ask once a week. Feel free to point me to threads where these have been answered ad nauseum.

1) I plan to get a 2.5 gallon keg, but I don't brew that much (my biggest pot is 4 gallons). Would the extra head space cause a problem if carbonating with sugar? Would I still follow the usual "use half the sugar you would for bottles" rule of thumb (what is it, 1oz per 1gal?), or do I need to adjust the formula to compensate for half a gallon or more of head space?

2) If there's only two gallons of beer in the keg, can the CO2 charger be used to purge a little bit of the air? Like, close 'er up, give it a blast or two from the charger, open the release valve a little bit, and get a layer of CO2 on the bottom to protect from oxidation? Presumably moving/transporting the keg at that point would mix up the air and CO2, but I'd be dispensing soon afterward.

3) I've seen that usually people need to pressurize the keg to 30psi or so to properly seal. Is there a different way this can be done without emptying 15 CO2 cartridges?

Thanks a lot for your help!

 

[tdbc2011]

I can only address part of question 3. I have five gallon kegs that are almost always primed with corn sugar and I normally seal the keg with only 10 psi then back them down to 5 psi. That may not take as much of your co2 cartridges.

Many people on this board will tell you that the co2, although heaver than O2 will not settle to form a "blanket" to protect the beer. I just purge a few times with no problems.

 

[ayrlander]

Thanks, oxidation isn't a huge concern for me, as the plan is to finish or nearly finish the keg at group functions shortly after carbonating. So it mostly has to make it for a few weeks before staling. I thought CO2 did make a layer, but I'm likely to be mistaken on several things.

 

[jwalk4]

1) I plan to get a 2.5 gallon keg, but I don't brew that much (my biggest pot is 4 gallons). Would the extra head space cause a problem if carbonating with sugar? Would I still follow the usual "use half the sugar you would for bottles" rule of thumb (what is it, 1oz per 1gal?), or do I need to adjust the formula to compensate for half a gallon or more of head space?

No. You carbonate for the volume of beer you are packaging, not the size of the vessel.

Additionally, if you had some fermcap, you could brew at least 3 gallons in a 4 gallon pot.

2) If there's only two gallons of beer in the keg, can the CO2 charger be used to purge a little bit of the air? Like, close 'er up, give it a blast or two from the charger, open the release valve a little bit, and get a layer of CO2 on the bottom to protect from oxidation? Presumably moving/transporting the keg at that point would mix up the air and CO2, but I'd be dispensing soon afterward.

Yes. I would suggest that you do "seal 'er up." However, the CO2 charger will slowly leak over time. So when you break the seal, you'll lose the canister if you aren't using it right away.

3) I've seen that usually people need to pressurize the keg to 30psi or so to properly seal. Is there a different way this can be done without emptying 15 CO2 cartridges?

Without a regulator, you couldn't tell what is 30psi anyways. So don't worry about that.

 

[jbb3]

You want to get into kegging but; You don't brew that much and you only brew small batches. And you don't want to use a CO2 tank...

Oxidation will be a problem if you don't purge your kegs of O2 first. Trying to manage kegging with CO2 cartridges/chargers will only lead to frustration, expense and disappointment.

If you get into kegging in the half way manner that you describe, you won't be happy with the results. You don't sound like a good candidate for kegging to me.

But then again, I've seen people make crazier things then this work...

 

[Gavin C]

Hi, all!

I've no experience doing wht you propose. Seems like a lot of hassle for minimal reward but what the flock do I know.

Here, however is a recent article on HBT that covers a similar process. It may be useful to you and answers ome of your questions. Best of luck with your plan.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/easy-kegs-and-mini-kegs.html

 

[jbb3]

I've no experience doing wht you propose. Seems like a lot of hassle for minimal reward but what the flock do I know.

Here, however is a recent article on HBT that covers a similar process. It may be useful to you and answers ome of your questions. Best of luck with your plan.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/easy-kegs-and-mini-kegs.html

Well there you go OP! Gavin has your answer. I would say 5l mini kegs would be perfect for what the OP describes.

Good on you Gavin!

 

[ayrlander]

Thanks, all. I was looking at this route because I'd seen that mini keg article, but looking at other posts here it looked like a lot of people had problems with them and it was recommended that they move up to a regular keg. I was just trying to skip that step and move right up. I've also seen the Tap-a-Draft system, which looks identical to the mini keg setup except I can actually find it for sale in the US.

MoreBeer already sells something very similar to what I was proposing: http://www.morebeer.com/products/25-gallon-keg-party-pack.html . I was just going to buy the pieces individually and swap out the new 2.5 gallon Torpedo keg that they also sell. They even discuss cask conditioning and serving with the charger, like I mentioned.

Since my main intent is to take these to parties and gatherings, it seems wasteful to spend the time bottling and capping, only to take a case of bottles with me and immediately uncap them all. Am I really that off base here? The consensus seems to be I'm crazy, which I didn't think I was since similar systems are already out there for sale, but maybe I'm missing something.

 

[jwalk4]

Since my main intent is to take these to parties and gatherings, it seems wasteful to spend the time bottling and capping, only to take a case of bottles with me and immediately uncap them all. Am I really that off base here? The consensus seems to be I'm crazy, which I didn't think I was since similar systems are already out there for sale, but maybe I'm missing something.

No. Not crazy. But you are right: where you have a problem is your batch size and carbonation.

I have (almost) the exact same setup as what you linked and it works great for what you propose. In fact, I am about to serve out the same setup for new years eve.

But here's what you need to know:

• You can brew 2-2.5 gallons in a 4 gallon pot
• You can naturally prime in that size of keg
• You can (read: should) use the CO2 charger to seal up the lid for carbonation
• And you can serve with your CO2 charger
• _________HOWEVER___________
• You will get a lot of sediment stirred up in your beer if you want to make this setup portable and plan to naturally prime
• If you plan to use the keg charger to seal up the lid, you will likely lose 1 CO2 canister because it leaks slowly over time (not cheap for just a quick shot of CO2)

 

[chickypad]

[*]_________HOWEVER___________
[*]You will get a lot of sediment stirred up in your beer if you want to make this setup portable and plan to naturally prime
[/LIST]

This was may main concern about your plan also - most folks would jump to another keg before transport, which would be using up more cartridges. Or an alternative would be to fill up some growlers from the keg before each party. You could also just consider bottling in 2L soda bottles. You'd still have to be careful with transport but you could do a single pour into pitchers once you got to your party.

I'm actually not sure about the priming sugar question, my understanding is the reason you need only half the sugar to prime a keg vs. bottles is the much reduced headspace. If you're only kegging a half batch in a 5 gal keg that's a ton of headspace.

 

[jbb3]

... Since my main intent is to take these to parties and gatherings, it seems wasteful to spend the time bottling and capping, only to take a case of bottles with me and immediately uncap them all. Am I really that off base here? The consensus seems to be I'm crazy, which I didn't think I was since similar systems are already out there for sale, but maybe I'm missing something.

As jwalk4 pointed out (which I didn't think of initially as I haven't bottle carbed in a while), naturally carbing in a keg will produce a considerable amount of sediment. If the keg is left stationary, it would take several pours to clear up. But as soon as the keg is moved, it will stir up the remainder of the sediment and produce a very cloudy beer which would most likely turn off many non-HB beer drinkers.

If you're determined to make the morebeer 2.5 gal party keg work, find a welding gas distributor in your area that does CO2 tank swaps. They will "rent" you a full CO2 tank (it cost me $65 for my first 5 lb CO2 tank). Then you can force carb your beer without the sediment from natural carbing.

FYI - You'll also need a regulator, a gas Quick Disconnect and 5ft of gas line (another $50-$70). Kegging is not cheap. That's why most that get into it either have plenty of money &/or consume the volume of beer to help justify the cost & time savings over bottling.

Good luck with your HB'ing.

 

[hobomoto]

Have you looked into using the small paintball CO2 tanks to push beer/purge? I just got one of the 2.5 gal torpedo kegs and plan on using that setup. You can even force carb. You'll need a regulator, but after doing the research, its a more economical and functional system in the long run.

I don't have room for a dedicated kegerator and this setup fits in my normal fridge easy. Good for transport too.

 

[ayrlander]

Have you looked into using the small paintball CO2 tanks to push beer/purge? I just got one of the 2.5 gal torpedo kegs and plan on using that setup. You can even force carb. You'll need a regulator, but after doing the research, its a more economical and functional system in the long run.

I don't have room for a dedicated kegerator and this setup fits in my normal fridge easy. Good for transport too.

I hadn't looked into it, but after a little bit of research this morning, I will now. Only $20 for a 20oz. tank from Amazon, and our local sports store does refills for $4.50. And if I carb with priming sugar, it looks like it'll last forever, but still give force carbing as an option. Thanks for the tip, looks perfect!