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Keg King Malt Muncher 3 Frustrations

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There is more to this story. Its not just morebeer... companies like Williams brewing are still offering these mills as well as maltmunchiers yet you will no longer find them or intertap faucets on the kegking.au site. Where is the mention of the former Keg king that employees that allegedly started all this?
You will find plenty of mention of Intertap faucets on the Keg King website. This trademark is registered in Australia and belongs to us. Morebeer and Williams get their stuff from the people in China who copied our name and run it as www.kegking.cn and have used this for some years to sell stuff with our names and trademarks on there.
 
I only bought mine from morebeer a couple months ago, and it has a the Kegland branding.

Everything was packaged disassembled, and there would be no way for them to see the branding before they passed it on.

Clearly something wrong is happening if those mills are going out in violation of copyright laws, and it needs to be fixed. That said, is it possible this is an honest mistake? Are you saying that the branding is the problem or the design? Are you taking issue with the Kegland, Kegco, Cereal Killer, etc.?

My understanding is that they are all the same with different branding. Is it possible someone just shipped the wrong name plate?

Why does it takes so long to get Keg King products in the US? There is clearly enthusiasm.
You are right there is plenty of enthusiasm from home brewers and for our party we would be delighted to be able to do more for them. Hardly a day goes by when we don’t get enquiries about our high quality PET fermenters and more. However until we can find US businesses who are willing to take on the distribution its a bit hard especially in the current situation. From what we see home brewers in the US are paying quite high prices for often rather poor quality goods. The companies who dominate your home brewing market are doing well for themselves so they don’t feel the need to change or add anything new. This might change as the trade war between the US and China keeps ramping up. We would love to hear from brewers in the US who might know of more companies willing to offer our products. Maybe someone out there could start a home brewers co-op to do bulk buys of our gear and we would certainly help with that. In the meantime the Beverage People in California have started to offer some of our products and we will support them strongly wherever we can.
 
The malt mills morebeer sells are KegLand branded, no?
Beats me, I've never bought a mill from Morebeer but I have purchased several other products. Pumps, chillers, fittings, etc. I've had to return a few items over the years and they never gave me any grief. So, tell Morebeer to stick it where the sun don't shine.😈
 
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I take exception thinking/believing I purchased a Keg King mill when I received a Chinese counterfeit.

I'm sure I'm as p*ssed any anyone paying for the real thing and getting a knock off.
Thats where your mistaken, They are ALL THE SAME CHINESE MILL keg king just resold that same chinese mill along with everyone else! they all order them from the same supplier in china with custom etching on the side now. (I used to have the link to the actual supplier doing this but cant find it) The issue here is due to a split in the company you have one part that changed to kegland and the other side that wont honor any of (thier genuine products) that were sold to the US market previously by the people that left leg king and formed kegland. Basically you are getting the short end of the stick as far as support because of a former dispute at keg king and the results. im not sure where kegking.cn fits into all this but I know that it likely has something to do with the same former kegking.au employees that left and now work for kegland if in fact that story which was told by Will in the intertap thread is correct, Which is why I say there more to this whole thing than whats been shared in this thread.

These companies like keg king dont actually make most of thier own products if any...
If you dont believe me heres the NEW keg king mill avaliable on alibaba for 70-100 each depending on order volume made by Vulcan.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.0.0.3f957503UAuqBKKegland is moving on to thier new Maltzilla mill so it looks like the "maltmuncher" mill is now being marketed under that term by multiple distributors without the kegland or keg king branding if you look at williams brewing Maltmuncher Three Roller Mill and amazon sellers like this Homebrewers Outpost - MILL710 MaltMuncher 3 Roller Grain Mill:Amazon

This is the same thing thats happened with multiple chinese items that kegking used to sell as thier own like thier original intertap faucets which they no longer sell but you can still buy from other places like kegland...
 
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Thats where your mistaken, They are ALL THE SAME CHINESE MILL keg king just resold that same chinese mill along with everyone else! they all order them from the same supplier in china with custom etching on the side now. The issue here is due to a split in the company you have one part that changed to kegland and the other side that wont honor any of (thier genuine products) that were sold to the US market previously by the people that left leg king and formed kegland. Basically you are getting the short end of the stick as far as support because of a former dispute at keg king and the results.

These companies like keg king dont actually make most of thier own products if any...
If you dont believe me heres the NEW keg king mill avaliable on alibaba for 70-100 each depending on order volume.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.0.0.3f957503UAuqBK
Now that sounds more like it.
 
In a nutshell Morebeer should be the one supporting the customers on issues with this.

As far as trying to pinpoint the actual problem here I will say this again only because Ive seen more than a couple times where people had the same issues as what was reported here, Check the position of the tabs and make sure they are installed correctly to be able to keep the grain away from the side walls and ends of the rollers as they were designed to do. also make sure the adjustable roller isnt 180 degrees out of phase and not parallel. when adusting this roller one side needs to be turned clockwise and the other end counterclock wise otherwise the roller is not parallel and will intermittently bind. There are reports of this same issue with many 2 roller mills. these suggestions were given here 3 Roller Mill
and this thread discusses the importance of the lower tabs to stop binding.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/3-roller-monster-mill-help.255840/
Edit I just found yet another thread you started in regards to this last year and see you do have the tabs right... I would normally suggest pursuing it with morebeer but since its been about a year now I see why you've brought the branding support argument into it. Malt Muncher 3 PITA
 
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I didn't bring any branding argument into anything. I was reacting to the information provided by the Keg King CEO in his posts.
True, I stand corrected and apologize. But The ceo of keg king is being misleading in stating your product is an inferior knock off when in reality it likely came from the same pile that was made for distribution to an Australian keg king customer but instead found its way to you possibly when keg king stopped distributing them itself and left the manufacturer with extras already branded, who knows. these could have gotten slipped in with newer otherwise branded stock they now sell.
I agree morebeer should step in and make it right since keg king doesn't support US customers that obtained their products through gray market or back channels and its unfair to ask them to support a product they never sold. Years ago when I worked as a xerox tech, we ran into a similar problem with xerox branded toner cartridges that were made by a company called rank in India for xerox overseas finding their way into our US market and much lower prices. Xerox had a hell of a time figuring out how to address the situation since it was geniune xerox toner, just not for this side of the world where they had a different company making, packaging and branding it. In this case you have the same product from the same manufacturer that presumably found its way where it shouldnt have due to mismanagment / control or fraud within the original keg king company where an employee or employees at the time legally filed the paperwork to distribute these products in other regions with said branding but whithout others in the company somehow knowing for years..
 
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I am familiar with grey market from other hobbies. It's always risky. Save now? Pay later?

However, I do know there are different lines/quality of a product. I've read, whether true or not, Keg King mills are a knock off/cheaper version of the Monster Mill. While it's possible both mills are made in the same Chinese prison factory, Monster Mill may have higher standards (specs, QA, etc) for their mills, hence the higher cost. Perhaps Keg King specs/QA are not as demanding, hence the lower cost than Monster Mill. I am only speculating as I really don't know.

I do know many brands have different, although nearly the same, items available to target different segments of the market. For example, a dishwasher manufacturer and/or seller may have a noisy model that's low in price targeted to a younger crowd looking to save money. The same dishwasher with better sound proofing, dB rating, costs more and is targeted at an older crowd whom wants the low noise and can afford the higher cost.
 
True, I stand corrected and apologize. But The ceo of keg king is being misleading in stating your product is an inferior knock off when in reality it likely came from the same pile that was made for distribution to an Australian keg king customer but instead found its way to you possibly when keg king stopped distributing them itself and left the manufacturer with extras already branded, who knows. these could have gotten slipped in with newer otherwise branded stock they now sell.
I agree morebeer should step in and make it right since keg king doesn't support US customers that obtained their products through gray market or back channels and its unfair to ask them to support a product they never sold. Years ago when I worked as a xerox tech, we ran into a similar problem with xerox branded toner cartridges that were made by a company called rank in India for xerox overseas finding their way into our US market and much lower prices. Xerox had a hell of a time figuring out how to address the situation since it was geniune xerox toner, just not for this side of the world where they had a different company making, packaging and branding it. In this case you have the same product from the same manufacturer that presumably found its way where it shouldnt have due to mismanagment / control or fraud within the original keg king company where an employee or employees at the time legally filed the paperwork to distribute these products in other regions with said branding but whithout others in the company somehow knowing for years..
I don’t think I misled anyone. The stuff we sell we stand behind. When others sell it by putting our name on there without our knowledge and permission then its nothing to do with us. We do our own QC before our name goes on. If other people copy our logo and name then that is skullduggery and the people selling it know it is not a Keg King product. That makes it counterfeit in my book and we cannot be blamed for it not working or breaking. No past employee was ever granted any right to break the law by filing such paperwork and doing that is breaking Australian law.
 
Thats where your mistaken, They are ALL THE SAME CHINESE MILL keg king just resold that same chinese mill along with everyone else! they all order them from the same supplier in china with custom etching on the side now. (I used to have the link to the actual supplier doing this but cant find it) The issue here is due to a split in the company you have one part that changed to kegland and the other side that wont honor any of (thier genuine products) that were sold to the US market previously by the people that left leg king and formed kegland. Basically you are getting the short end of the stick as far as support because of a former dispute at keg king and the results. im not sure where kegking.cn fits into all this but I know that it likely has something to do with the same former kegking.au employees that left and now work for kegland if in fact that story which was told by Will in the intertap thread is correct, Which is why I say there more to this whole thing than whats been shared in this thread.

These companies like keg king dont actually make most of thier own products if any...
If you dont believe me heres the NEW keg king mill avaliable on alibaba for 70-100 each depending on order volume made by Vulcan.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.0.0.3f957503UAuqBKKegland is moving on to thier new Maltzilla mill so it looks like the "maltmuncher" mill is now being marketed under that term by multiple distributors without the kegland or keg king branding if you look at williams brewing Maltmuncher Three Roller Mill and amazon sellers like this Homebrewers Outpost - MILL710 MaltMuncher 3 Roller Grain Mill:Amazon

This is the same thing thats happened with multiple chinese items that kegking used to sell as thier own like thier original intertap faucets which they no longer sell but you can still buy from other places like kegland...
Well that is a load of cock and bull. We actually have our own factory which makes over 30% of what we sell. We also have a pretty serious design centre staffed by some good engineers who love to brew. We still manufacture the Intertap and own the patent manufacturing rights to its design. Our later Ultra Tap which is a vast improvement on the Intertap is now sold exclusively by MicroMatic in the USA. Happy to provide you proof so that you can stop making all this rubbish up.
 
I don’t think I misled anyone. The stuff we sell we stand behind. When others sell it by putting our name on there without our knowledge and permission then its nothing to do with us. We do our own QC before our name goes on. If other people copy our logo and name then that is skullduggery and the people selling it know it is not a Keg King product. That makes it counterfeit in my book and we cannot be blamed for it not working or breaking. No past employee was ever granted any right to break the law by filing such paperwork and doing that is breaking Australian law.
Have these x employees been prosecuted/sued?
 
Well that is a load of cock and bull. We actually have our own factory which makes over 30% of what we sell. We also have a pretty serious design centre staffed by some good engineers who love to brew. We still manufacture the Intertap and own the patent manufacturing rights to its design. Our later Ultra Tap which is a vast improvement on the Intertap is now sold exclusively by MicroMatic in the USA. Happy to provide you proof so that you can stop making all this rubbish up.

I think you have a legitimate complaint about your brand being under your control, and you have every right to push back on this. I am glad you let us know this was happening. Caveat emptor and all that.

Where does the other 70% come from? I am assuming that the answer is China.

You said 70% of what you SELL, but you never said what percentage of those MILLS are made in Australia, and if I had to guess . . . Well . . . Better not.

The claim that Kegco, Kegland, Cereal Killer, KegKing mills are all made on the same assembly line in the same factory with the same QC (why would a factory have multiple protocols?) seems like something you would want to cast doubt on. That said I don't see anything you have said thus-far to persuade me otherwise.
 
Well that is a load of cock and bull. We actually have our own factory which makes over 30% of what we sell. We also have a pretty serious design centre staffed by some good engineers who love to brew. We still manufacture the Intertap and own the patent manufacturing rights to its design. Our later Ultra Tap which is a vast improvement on the Intertap is now sold exclusively by MicroMatic in the USA. Happy to provide you proof so that you can stop making all this rubbish up.
so your saying your new mill is not the chinese made mill I linked above? I have purchased multiple keg king products on aliexpress including the intertap faucets and a beergun and both came in kegking.au packaging the beergun even came with a full direction booklet. I Do not believe for a second these were fake copies like your intentionally misleading people to believe. You want people to believe the manufacturers go through the added headache of having different grades or designed parts for these mills or product when in fact the odds are much more likely they are all assembled from the same bins of parts short of whether stainless or hardened rollers are selected and the laser etching and packaging. Sorry I just dont buy it. Now there may be factory second no name stuff being sold out there sure. But I just dont buy that the mills you had purchased were superior than all the other distributors buying them with thier own branding here.
Are these mot your directions that came with your beer guns a few years back? I've bought a lot of chinese products and enough knock offs to tell when the packaging is real or cheap faked knock off packaging..for one thing it would have been most likely black and white photocopied directions and not on semigloss paper had this product been a fake counterfeit knock off.
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Have these x employees been prosecuted/sued?
This is a very good question.. and one area where I bet things are a bit more cloudy than stated.. my guess is at least one of these x employees had some sort of stake in the original company and they distributed products legally whether ethically and properly through the company channels or not. Otherwise I think you would not see kegland in operation right now.
 
I am familiar with grey market from other hobbies. It's always risky. Save now? Pay later?

However, I do know there are different lines/quality of a product. I've read, whether true or not, Keg King mills are a knock off/cheaper version of the Monster Mill. While it's possible both mills are made in the same Chinese prison factory, Monster Mill may have higher standards (specs, QA, etc) for their mills, hence the higher cost. Perhaps Keg King specs/QA are not as demanding, hence the lower cost than Monster Mill. I am only speculating as I really don't know.

I do know many brands have different, although nearly the same, items available to target different segments of the market. For example, a dishwasher manufacturer and/or seller may have a noisy model that's low in price targeted to a younger crowd looking to save money. The same dishwasher with better sound proofing, dB rating, costs more and is targeted at an older crowd whom wants the low noise and can afford the higher cost.
In this case the knock offs are superior in engineering than the monster mills they copied just as the monster mills are superior to the barley crushers they copied with better rollers. The comparable monster mills use cheap inexpensive bronze bushings and only use real bearings like the "clones do" in thier upgraded models selling for multiple times the price.
 
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so your saying your new mill is not the chinese made mill I linked above? I have purchased multiple keg king products on aliexpress including the intertap faucets and a beergun and both came in kegking.au packaging the beergun even came with a full direction booklet. I Do not believe for a second these were fake copies like your intentionally misleading people to believe. You want people to believe the manufacturers go through the added headache of having different grades or designed parts for these mills or product when in fact the odds are much more likely they are all assembled from the same bins of parts short of whether stainless or hardened rollers are selected and the laser etching and packaging. Sorry I just dont buy it. Now there may be factory second no name stuff being sold out there sure. But I just dont buy that the mills you had purchased were superior than all the other distributors buying them with thier own branding here.
Are these mot your directions that came with your beer guns a few years back? I've bought a lot of chinese products and enough knock offs to tell when the packaging is real or cheap faked knock off packaging..for one thing it would have been most likely black and white photocopied directions and not on semigloss paper had this product been a fake counterfeit knock off.View attachment 689389
This was done via the Chinese business called AMCO Technologies which is a PO Box in Hong Kong. They were using our letterhead and even our business number with invoices coming out of Hong Kong and China. The real Keg King in Australia only found this was being done after October 2017. American businesses were advised that they were not dealing with us but these setups in Hong Kong and China that were using our names and more without our permission or agreement. Keg King has never sold anything through Ali Baba or any other on-line business than its own.
 
This is a very good question.. and one area where I bet things are a bit more cloudy than stated.. my guess is at least one of these x employees had some sort of stake in the original company and they distributed products legally whether ethically and properly through the company channels or not. Otherwise I think you would not see kegland in operation right now.
No they did not do this legally. They simply took our names etc to China. We were shocked to find a so called “Distribution Centre“ in Shanghai bearing our Keg King name.
 
No they did not do this legally. They simply took our names etc to China. We were shocked to find a so called “Distribution Centre“ in Shanghai bearing our Keg King name.

So what you are saying specifically is that they took your Australia manufactured product and reverse engineered it in China? You're haven't had any of these products contract manufactured in China? Or you did have some percentage of your product contract manufactured there?
 

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