Keg fermenting and serving all in one

[bgmac]

Has anyone tried fermenting in a corny keg using a pressure regulating valve to maintain the wort around serving pressure then chill the keg and serve using a floating dip tube to stay above the yeast cake?

Basically poor the wort at pitching temp into the keg, add yeast, then close it up with a floating dip tube installed and give it a shot of CO2 to seal it up. Let it ride for 3 or 4 weeks at about 10 psi set by the regulating valve. Gently move to fridge and hook up CO2 tank set to serving pressure, chill and serve until the floating dip tube drops to the yeast cake. I would think this method would eliminate any possibility of oxygen or other contamination etc... Would there be any issues leaving the beer at serving temp/pressure on the yeast cake until empty? This would be a super lazy way of handling the beer from fermentor to glass.

Here are pics of the pressure regulating valve and floating dip tube setup:

pres reg valve: https://www.beveragefactory.com/images/FIL42A081518151130.jpg

Floating dip tube: https://morebeer-web-19-pavinthewaysoftw.netdna-ssl.com/product_image/morebeer/0x0/23846.png

 

[balrog]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/im-done-sweating-the-small-stuff.663734/#post-8548906

 

[bgmac]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/im-done-sweating-the-small-stuff.663734/#post-8548906

Looks like its a thing. Now to get the floating dip tube and give it a try.

 

[balrog]

There are quite a few threads
Some related to pressure fermenting to suppress normal ester formation at higher temps, some related to limiting O2 exposure when doing NEIPA, and some related to simply not having to move the beer except from kettle to corny the one time.

 

[McKnuckle]

Considering the amount of money people spend on some aspects of brewing, the $20-$40 floating dip tube is a seriously overlooked tool. I have been practicing this ferment and serve in the same keg thing since the beginning of this year, perhaps a half dozen batches. It pretty much guarantees fresh, non-oxidized beer (how could it not?).

My longest standing keg using this method is at 8 weeks, still clear and clean with no evidence that yeast is on the bottom. It simply works.

There is one minor point with the floating dip tubes: Normally, if you rack neatly to a keg with a standard bottom-feeding tube, the early pours are a bit cloudy, because sediment is near the bottom and it gets removed during dispensing.

With a top draw tube, sediment never actually leaves the keg, because it sits undisturbed on the bottom til the end. And if you ferment in the keg, there's a lot more sediment - equivalent to what's in your carboy.

So you'll end up with a little less clear, drinkable beer this way. Brewers sometimes ferment 5.25 gallons in order to get 5 in their keg. But since you're starting in the keg itself, you can't do that - you may have 4.5 gallons to start (leaving headspace), ending up with 4.25 gallons of drinkable beer.

To me this is a non-issue, but some people place a lot of value on quantity, so it's worth pointing out.

 

[SanPancho]

8 weeks seems like a long time to have trub, yeast and hops in the beer. No? No issues?

 

[Dland]

I have been practicing this ferment and serve in the same keg thing since the beginning of this year, perhaps a half dozen batches.

Have you noticed any taste effects of the beer sitting on all the trub? Lagers or ales?( just wondering if lager would clear up as well.)

This method certainly requires fewer steps and less equipment, if it makes good beer, no reason not to do it. Not that I'm going to put away my conicals, but will have to try this with a simple ale at some point.

 

[McKnuckle]

No taste effects whatsoever. I have done this mostly with lagers, actually. I have a rauchbier sitting for 8 weeks so far, and also a Biermuncher's Centennial blonde sitting around the same time. Both are as fresh as the day I first tapped them. Yes, the lagers clear and condition faster because the top of the keg clears first.

I don't think I'd use this method with a beer I was going to truly age. But I don't yet have any sense of when, if ever, the trub will become a negative factor.

I know it seems counter to what we are taught from homebrew convention but it really does work! At the very end, instead of pulling sputtering foam like a normal keg, you pull murky beer - that's the trub and the end of the road.

 

[bgmac]

How well does the keg stand up to the fermentation cycle? Does krausen get everywhere like the relief valve and and into the ball lock fittings? Was thinking that I would like to try fermenting under pressure using a regulating valve but was concerned that the valve would get clogged. To avoid the clogged regulator situation I guess I could rig a blow off tube from the gas in coupler and let it ferment without pressure like normal. I can imagine the keg gets hard to clean since the junk left on the top from the fermentation would sit for a long time on the high and dry end of the keg as the beer is consumed over several weeks.

Have you had any issues with the floating dip tube such as clogging or pinched, especial since it floats along through the fermentation process?

 

[McKnuckle]

If you don't fill the keg all the way up, none of those things will happen. I attach a blow-off tube to a gas quick disconnect and run it to a jar of Star-San. But it's really just a big air lock - there is no actual krausen escaping through the tube. I leave a half gallon of space in the keg.

There is the usual krausen ring in the keg when it's done, but it's no big deal to clean with hot water, PBW, and a sponge.

I have not had any problems with the dip tubes yet. I've got both CBDS and William's Brewing versions and so far, so good. There's not much chance of a clog just from krausen bubbling around it.

Remember, the keg will be under pressure so a little yeast won't be any match for that, in the event something small lodges in the tube's opening. You certainly have that same chance with a standard bottom draw dip tube in any case.

 

[Carolina_Matt]

I'm heading in this direction pretty soon. With my birthday coming up, I asked for 5-6 Top Draw tubes from Williams Brewing. I also plan on buying a spunding valve. But I do have a few questions for those of you that have been fermenting and serving in the same keg:

1: Is it ok to put the spunding valve on right after I pitch the yeast, or should I use a blow-off tube for the first couple days?

2: Any issues reusing yeast after it's been sitting in the keg for 1-2 months before the keg runs out of beer? My current process is to just pour a pint of the trub directly from the fermentation bucket into a sanitized mason jar after I transfer the beer to a keg. I use half a pint in each of my next two batches, so one packet of dry yeast yields three kegs of beer (I haven't gone into multiple generations yet). Can I just pour the trub from the keg after it runs out of beer, or is it considered 'old' (and would need a starter) since it's been in cold temperatures for 1-2 months?

3: How do you get a FG reading? Do you just pour a sample out of the tap once you hook it up, before drinking your first pint? Or does the CO2 impact the reading?

 

[LittleRiver]

... Any issues reusing yeast after it's been sitting in the keg for 1-2 months before the keg runs out of beer? ... Can I just pour the trub from the keg after it runs out of beer, or is it considered 'old' (and would need a starter) since it's been in cold temperatures for 1-2 months...

I don't ferment in kegs but I've left harvested yeast slurry in the fridge for months and used it without problems. In the keg the yeast will be exposed to a higher pressure and a higher level of dissolved CO2 (compared to refrigerator storage), but neither of those should cause a problem. People harvest yeast from bottled beer (which is pressurized and stored for months) and it works fine. I'll think you'll be OK.

Don't be afraid of multiple generations. I've got some WY1450 that I've been re-using for two years. I've not had any problems with it. I'm going to continue re-using it until I find a reason to stop.

I just collect the yeast in sanitized 4oz canning jars and stick them in the fridge. The day before I brew I'll slightly loosen the lid on a jar and put it on the countertop to slowly warm up to room temp.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Potential issues to be aware of and hopefully head off before they are problems:
1: If you use a spunding valve during fermentation, foam in the fermenter can get pushed into the spunding valve. If that happens, when the foam dries, the valve can get stuck open due to sticky wort and lose all your built-up pressure. You can reduce this likelihood by leaving yourself some headspace and using Fermcap S or some anti-foam additive.

2: For top-fermenting ales, your floating pickup tube can become clogged with yeast and kreusen residue. This happened to me using a ClearBeer system in a Brewbucket. I had not experienced it with lagers, but with an ale I did. It was so clogged, I had to open the keg and replace the dip tube there was so much gunk in it. Not saying it will happen every time, but it did to me.

Other than that, it's not a bad way to go.

Alternatively, try completing 90% of the fermentation in one keg, then closed transfer to another CO2 purged keg (spunding). You get natural carbonation with significantly less yeast cake.

 

[RoguePixels]

Thank you. I was considering this in the near future but having trouble finding relevant threads on it. I'm considering using a 10 gallon keg for this as I don't have anything to ferment 10 gallons. I'll either serve from the keg like you plan to or fill bottles from the keg with a beer gun.

 

[balrog]

2: For top-fermenting ales, your floating pickup tube can become clogged with yeast and kreusen residue

Yikes.

Alternatively, try completing 90% of the fermentation in one keg, then closed transfer to another CO2 purged keg (spunding)

Trying this for the first time right now--ferm in keg with the top draw & the Williams 10 psi check valve, exhaust through empty keg to purge w pure CO2, and will xfr to that for chilling/serving.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I've done 12 batches fermenting in kegs using the fermentasaurus version of the CBDS, 11 of which were ales, and haven't yet had an issue with it clogging. I think cold crashing and being patient(letting krausen drop and yeast flocc) helps a lot. When I pull my first sample to check gravity around day 10 or so I will get a bit of sediment coming through for a second or two but then it's clear sailing. I know everyone's experience is different though.

 

[greywolf]

I’m doing one now. A rye saison. Keg modded with floating dip tube. Shortened gas in tube is important. I’m sold on the method.

 

[greywolf]

I don't find the increased trub to be an issue. I have had no issues with clogging from loose dry hopping, either.

 

[bgmac]

Digging the floating dip tube rig. I am going to copy. Ever have any issues with kinks in the silicone tubing? Or is that stiffer vinyl tubing?

 

[day_trippr]

Looks like solid pvc beer line...

Cheers!

 

[cmac62]

I get the floating dip tube, but is the other thing a spunding valve? I have wondered what the heck they are and what you do with them. LOL.

Greywold, did you buy the dip tube as is? Where? Thanks

 

[greywolf]

Built it from silicone tubing and a wine filter. The float can be as shown or even a mini bottle. Used ideas gathered from the net and assembled the way it made sense to me. It works. The valve is put on after pitching and set to a lower value. After a week or so I raise pressure to 20 and let it go until the pressue falls just a little. My valve leaks slightly. You can hook up a picnic tap and check gravity. When it ready drop into keezer and hook up the gas. When its chilled its pretty much ready.

 

[cmac62]

Thanks greywolf, I need to see what else is out there concerning the spunding thing. Also see if everything is available online pre-assembled.

 

[rconway91]

Ever tried this with a dry hopped beer?

Im thinking you could use a magnet to lower and raise a bag of hops... Think that would work?

 

[greywolf]

I think that would work. Just more work than I do. I should try doing this.

I dry hop loose hops all the time. I no chill overnight. Some batches I put the hops in with the yeast in the morning, some I'll vent and quickly open the lid and drop em in. It will carb back up soon enough. You will want to shorten the gas in tube as much as you can. Some are several inches too long. The wine filter is to keep any hop debris out of the poppets. Their cheap and prevent blockages and all the cussin that causes. No more oxidation of my precious hops.

I'm going to redesign the spund to include a chamber to keep debris out of the valve. Maybe a baby food jar or something similar. Maybe not glass. Like a small water filter housing.