Keg Aging

[sundaybrewingco]

Hi All,
I hounded the forums here and really couldn't fine an answer that sounded too definite (although I think there isn't one), but I would like to get a best practice most use on here...

The gory details:
Brewed an Imperial Red yesterday... going to ferment it and then keg it. I won't be putting it on until February or so as I just tapped a keg of Kolsch, so my questions are:

Once Imperial Red is kegged, do I...

1. Initially blast the keg with 30psi, let Oxygen escape, then 30psi again CO2 to seal and let it sit @ room temp until ready?
2. Initially blast the keg with 30psi CO2, let Oxygen escape, then serving psi (say 12-15psi) and let sit @ room temp until ready?
3. Do not use any CO2 until ready to serve (like a 2ndary), then carb as normal?

Any help and examples of your own process for aging/reserving keg storage would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers!

 

[runningweird]

Purge with co2 so as to limit oxidation. Let it carb to desired level . Remove co2 line. Store at cool temps.

 

[sundaybrewingco]

Purge with co2 so as to limit oxidation. Let it carb to desired level . Remove co2 line. Store at cool temps.

Thanks for the quick reply.. so when I set the psi to desired level (eg. 15psi) and then let it store in cool temp... do I have to do anything while its in storage? Also when I am ready to tap the keg, would I just hook up the co2 and start drinking?

 

[Strecker25]

I also am curious of others process for cold conditioning (not stealing the thread, I think this is sort of what the OP is asking)

Any detriment to simultaneously slow carbing and cold conditioning? I'd like to rack a beer at put it at about 10psi and let it cold condition for a week. I wonder if the co2 has any effect on the aging process

 

[sundaybrewingco]

Purge with co2 so as to limit oxidation. Let it carb to desired level . Remove co2 line. Store at cool temps.

Also, when you say "cool temps"... would their be a preference to keeping it in a basement (semi-cool) or putting it in my fridge (where I currently have my keg serving now)?

 

[runningweird]

Just make sure none of your posts or seals leak. I would store somewhere dry. When ready to drink hit the posts with some starsan and hookup. Chill. Drink.

 

[sundaybrewingco]

Just make sure none of your posts or seals leak. I would store somewhere dry. When ready to drink hit the posts with some starsan and hookup. Chill. Drink.

Just to pick your brain, but why would you suggest to store it dry (basement) over conditioning in the fridge?

 

[runningweird]

Ideal conditioning temps or cellarng temps are in the mid 50s in my experience. Storing ina fridge you wont get the same aging effect over the same tm perioid.

 

[runningweird]

If you're unsure of yor sanitation leave it in a fridge. If you have room to do so go for it. I can only fit 6 kegs at a time.

 

[sundaybrewingco]

If you're unsure of yor sanitation leave it in a fridge. If you have room to do so go for it. I can only fit 6 kegs at a time.

I can definitely fit the keg in the fridge... but what you said about the conditioning at 50F verse a fridge @ 34F makes me think to just keep it in my basement over the winter conditioning around 45-50F. However, I am getting my basement redone so their may be some dust and whatnot floating around, which makes me think the fridge would be the way to go...

When you mentioned letting it condition in the fridge won't have the same effects as conditioning around 50F, what would happen?

 

[runningweird]

Same effects just take longer the colder it is.

 

[sundaybrewingco]

Same effects just take longer the colder it is.

I'm thinking since I won't be tapping the Imperial Red for at least a month or 2, I may be OK with keeping it in the fridge conditioning until ready.. would 2 months be enough time being around 34F in the fridge?

 

[runningweird]

Colder temps drop yeast out faster but flavor changes in your beer proceed at aslower rate. Warmer temps take longer to drop out all yeast but the flavors tend to come together better in a shorter time. Hence why cellaring is done at 55 degrees. Lagers are better stored cool I think.

 

[sundaybrewingco]

Colder temps drop yeast out faster but flavor changes in your beer proceed at aslower rate. Warmer temps take longer to drop out all yeast but the flavors tend to come together better in a shorter time. Hence why cellaring is done at 55 degrees. Lagers are better stored cool I think.

Yeah.. I'd like the yeast to keep doing its job while the beer is conditioning, so maybe ill find a clean spot in the basement to store the keg (or just keep it covered) so that it doesn't get too messy.. then just starsan the top the posts and serve when ready. Thanks for your help

 

[solbes]

I would age at room temps or cellar temps for awhile with that tasty brew. Definitely purge it with CO2 a few times to get rid of oxygen. Then a blast of 30 psi to seat the seals. Then just let it sit, hooked up to CO2 or not. The only difference will be whether you need to carb after aging or not.

 

[sundaybrewingco]

I would age at room temps or cellar temps for awhile with that tasty brew. Definitely purge it with CO2 a few times to get rid of oxygen. Then a blast of 30 psi to seat the seals. Then just let it sit, hooked up to CO2 or not. The only difference will be whether you need to carb after aging or not.

Hey solbes... I should let it sit at 30psi or 15psi (serving temp)? I wouldn't leave it hooked to co2 while conditioning.

 

[Malichaidog]

If you have that much time why not seal it up @30psi and purge the o2, then bleed it down to 10psi and naturally carb it in the keg with priming sugar? You can then let it sit at room temp or cellar it, so you are carbing and conditioning at the same time.

 

[sundaybrewingco]

If you have that much time why not seal it up @30psi and purge the o2, then bleed it down to 10psi and naturally carb it in the keg with priming sugar? You can then let it sit at room temp or cellar it, so you are carbing and conditioning at the same time.

I thought leaving the 15 or so psi in the keg could carb it up slowly? I'd rather not use priming sugar (just personal preference).

 

[Ricand]

Personally I've had problems storing at room temps. As a previous poster mentioned you have to be very sure of your sanitation. I did a pitch on yeast cake beer that tasted awesome with the first of the two cornys in the keezer. We drank that beer over a period of about 6 weeks with the other corny sitting at room temp. The last glass of the first corny tasted awesome, then we hooked up the other corny and it had gone bad. You can get away with some slight contamination if it's kept cold and you drink it in a reasonable amount of time. I'm trying to keep all my spare beers at serving temps now.

 

[solbes]

If you want it to be carbed during aging you can:

1) Give it half the dose of priming sugar that you would in bottling (Pour 1/2 pint, dump, after 5 minutes pour another 1/2 pint, dump, Your clear!)-OR-
2) Keep it hooked up to CO2 at roughly 19-24psi (See link below for set and forget temp/pressure recommendations). This chart only goes to 50F, but I thought that was about what your basement is set at.

Crockett Brewing Force Carbonation

OR

Give it a blast of CO2 and disconnect. This will not carb the beer much, if at all. That CO2 will quickly be absorbed into the beer and will be insufficient to carb it. But it should prevent any oxidation as long as your seals are good.

I just used option #1 on my Patersbier that's currently kegged as I also aged it for 6 weeks at room temp. Very clear beer after that first pint or two.

 

[sundaybrewingco]

OR

Give it a blast of CO2 and disconnect. This will not carb the beer much, if at all. That CO2 will quickly be absorbed into the beer and will be insufficient to carb it. But it should prevent any oxidation as long as your seals are good.

I think I may go this route... blast 30psi, purge oxygen, 30psi and then leave it in my fridge to condition until tapped. My main concern is that it prevents any oxidation, if it only carbonates a little bit due to the 30psi left while conditioning, i'm not too worried. The seals are new so I am good on that end..

 

[sundaybrewingco]

If you want it to be carbed during aging you can:

1) Give it half the dose of priming sugar that you would in bottling (Pour 1/2 pint, dump, after 5 minutes pour another 1/2 pint, dump, Your clear!)-OR-
2) Keep it hooked up to CO2 at roughly 19-24psi (See link below for set and forget temp/pressure recommendations). This chart only goes to 50F, but I thought that was about what your basement is set at.

Crockett Brewing Force Carbonation

OR

Give it a blast of CO2 and disconnect. This will not carb the beer much, if at all. That CO2 will quickly be absorbed into the beer and will be insufficient to carb it. But it should prevent any oxidation as long as your seals are good.

I just used option #1 on my Patersbier that's currently kegged as I also aged it for 6 weeks at room temp. Very clear beer after that first pint or two.

I guess that is another question.... should it be carbbing during aging?

 

[JuanMoore]

I guess that is another question.... should it be carbbing during aging?

It doesn't really matter one way or the other. I like to carb mine up right away and have them ready to go as soon as there's room, but that's just personal preference. If you're planning on force carbing, and want to do it now, you'll need a much higher pressure at room temp than you would at serving temp. Use a chart like this to determine what pressure to set it at- http://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table.php

 

[sundaybrewingco]

It doesn't really matter one way or the other. I like to have mine carbed and ready to go, but that's just personal preference. If you're planning on force carbing, and want to do it now, you'll need a much higher pressure at room temp than you would at serving temp. Use a chart like this to determine what pressure to set it at- http://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table.php

I think overall this is what i'm looking for..

Keg the beer and let it sit (warm or cold) then carb when ready then drink..

I guess i'm not really concerned if it's carbbing while it is conditioning as I can just force carb when i'm ready to drink it.. I just want to make sure while it's conditioning i'm doing the correct thing because it's a imperial beer and don't want it to go bad...

 

[edmanster]

If you dont force carb it before letting it sit you could end up sucking air in when the ambient temperature drops. Whatever you purge and fill your head space with seating the rings will get absorbed in the first day or 2. I think if you have room to force carb it cold, do it! Then after its week in the fridge you can unhook it and store it wherever you want untill you want to tap it.. When you want to tap it just get it in your fridge for a day and your golden as long as you haven't leaked any pressure...

 

[sundaybrewingco]

If you dont force carb it before letting it sit you could end up sucking air in when the ambient temperature drops. Whatever you purge and fill your head space with seating the rings will get absorbed in the first day or 2. I think if you have room to force carb it cold, do it! Then after its week in the fridge you can unhook it and store it wherever you want untill you want to tap it.. When you want to tap it just get it in your fridge for a day and your golden as long as you haven't leaked any pressure...

Hi edmanster..

So force carb (30psi, purge, 30psi, shake, purge, 15psi - leave in fridge).. at this point would I leave it hooked up to the co2 tank for the week in the fridge? I only have 1 co2 tank/regulator, so i would have to unhook it from the current keg I have hooked up to do so. I guess I could get another tank too.

 

[edmanster]

Is it in the same location? You could get a manifold and make it so you could have 2 kegs hooked up!!

 

[sundaybrewingco]

Is it in the same location? You could get a manifold and make it so you could have 2 kegs hooked up!!

It would be right next to it in the same fridge... I may have to look into that...would I need a dual regulator though to tell how much is being released in each keg?

 

[edmanster]

It would be right next to it in the same fridge... I may have to look into that...would I need a dual regulator though to tell how much is being released in each keg?

For separate volumes of Co2 for the style, yes. If you just want it carbed to the standard 2-2.5,no.. For something like this where you might add another tap in the future I would invest in a second regulator!!

 

[sundaybrewingco]

Is it necessary to force carb before aging (30psi, shake, purge, 30psi, age) or just hit it at 30psi, disconnect co2 and then let age?

 

[runningweird]

Force carbing just mean hooking it up to co2 instead of using sugar. Crash carbing is the shake method. Just setg at12 psi and forget for a week.

 

[billtzk]

Is it necessary to force carb before aging (30psi, shake, purge, 30psi, age) or just hit it at 30psi, disconnect co2 and then let age?

No, you don't have to force carb it before aging, but you do want to keep it from oxidizing.

I am not an expert, so if the experts want to chime in and explain any errors in my reasoning, I'd welcome that.

That 30psi you put on it will quickly get absorbed and go into solution while it's sitting at room temp. Then the pressure in the head space will drop, and if the ambient temp where you store the keg drops, you could develop a slight vacuum in the head space, which could result in air getting sucked in. Even if your seals are all good, they are designed to hold pressure inside the keg, not a vacuum.

I've taken to adding sugar and naturally carbing any keg that I don't have room for in my keezer. But if you don't want to do that and you don't have a way to carb it up completely before aging at room temp, then get a pressure gauge and check your pressure every couple of days, and hit it with more CO2 to bring the pressure back up. Do that until it stabilizes.

I could be wrong, as I said, but the reason I think it's possible for a keg with marginal seals to suck in air when it's kept in an environment subject to temperature swings is that I've seen a similar thing happen with air-locked carboys.