Kefir Beer

[plumsmooth]

Hi There this is my Kefir Beer brewing, bubbling away on the counter...

The basic recipe comes from http://www.traditionaltx.us/KefirBeer.pdf. My first one came out amazing.

No fancy sterilizing techniques. The colony of yeasts and bacteria are specially protective in ways that isolated single yeasts just aren't.

I doubt this batch will be as good, I kind of got stuck wanting to try a heather ale but was afraid to eliminate the hops like the traditional version.

I can not imagine beer brewing being any simpler. I wish some other folks would join this experiment! I have the book "Sacred and Healing Herbal Beers".

I love the idea of a multi yeast and bacteria brew with a simple one malt and hop profile instead of the standard reverse practice of one yeast and multi malt and hop additions!

I want to start experimenting with other Herbal Kefir Beers. The reason I am afraid to brew without hops is that I feel the hops attenuate the alcohol producing yeasts of the kefir colony -- of which I do not know how many or which ones they are?

Would someone be willing to guess rom this list:


Bacteria
Species Lactobacillus
Lb. acidophilus
Lb. brevis [Possibly now Lb. kefiri]
Lb. casei subsp. casei
Lb. casei subsp. rhamnosus
Lb. paracasei subsp. paracasei
Lb. fermentum
Lb. cellobiosus
Lb. delbrueckii subsp. bulgaricus
Lb. delbrueckii subsp. lactis
Lb. fructivorans
Lb. helveticus subsp. lactis
Lb. hilgardii
Lb. helveticus
Lb. kefiri
Lb. kefiranofaciens subsp. kefirgranum
Lb. kefiranofaciens subsp. kefiranofaciens
Lb. parakefiri
Lb. plantarum

Species Streptococcus
St. thermophilus
St. paracitrovorus

Species Lactococcus
Lc. lactis subsp. lactis
Lc. lactis subsp. lactis biovar. diacetylactis
Lc. lactis subsp. cremoris

Species Enterococcus
Ent. durans

Species Leuconostoc
Leuc. mesenteroides subsp. cremoris
Leuc. mesenteroides subsp. mesenteroides
Leuc. dextranicum

Yeasts
Dekkera anomala / Brettanomyces anomalus
Kluyveromyces marxianus / Candida kefyr
Pichia fermentans / C. firmetaria
Yarrowia lipolytica / C. lipolytica
Debaryomyces hansenii / C. famata
Deb. [Schwanniomyces] occidentalis
Issatchenkia orientalis / C. krusei
Galactomyces geotrichum / Geotrichum candidum
C. friedrichii
C. rancens
C. tenuis
C. humilis
C. inconspicua
C. maris
Cryptococcus humicolus
Kluyveromyces lactis var. lactis
Kluyv. bulgaricus
Kluyv. lodderae
Saccharomyces cerevisiae
Sacc. subsp. torulopsis holmii
Sacc. pastorianus
Sacc. humaticus
Sacc. unisporus
Sacc. exiguus
Sacc. turicensis sp. nov
Torulaspora delbrueckii
Zygosaccharomyces rouxii

Acetobacter
Acetobacter aceti
Acetobacter rasens

:fro:

 

[digitalsafari]

How did it come out?

How long did it take?

Any ideas on the alcohol levels?

Awesome! Not a lot of people are doing this... Curious myself.

 

[Numbersix]

Hi There this is my Kefir Beer brewing, bubbling away on the counter...

The basic recipe comes from http://www.traditionaltx.us/KefirBeer.pdf. My first one came out amazing.

No fancy sterilizing techniques. The colony of yeasts and bacteria are specially protective in ways that isolated single yeasts just aren't.

I doubt this batch will be as good, I kind of got stuck wanting to try a heather ale but was afraid to eliminate the hops like the traditional version.

I can not imagine beer brewing being any simpler. I wish some other folks would join this experiment! I have the book "Sacred and Healing Herbal Beers".

I love the idea of a multi yeast and bacteria brew with a simple one malt and hop profile instead of the standard reverse practice of one yeast and multi malt and hop additions!

I want to start experimenting with other Herbal Kefir Beers. The reason I am afraid to brew without hops is that I feel the hops attenuate the alcohol producing yeasts of the kefir colony -- of which I do not know how many or which ones they are?

Would someone be willing to guess rom this list:

Bacteria
Species Lactobacillus
Lb. acidophilus
Lb. brevis
Lb. casei subsp. casei
Lb. casei subsp. rhamnosus
Lb. paracasei subsp. paracasei
Lb. fermentum
Lb. cellobiosus
Lb. delbrueckii subsp. bulgaricus
Lb. delbrueckii subsp. lactis
Lb. fructivorans
Lb. helveticus subsp. lactis
Lb. hilgardii
Lb. helveticus
Lb. kefiri
Lb. kefiranofaciens subsp. kefirgranum
Lb. kefiranofaciens subsp. kefiranofaciens
Lb. parakefiri
Lb. plantarum

Species Streptococcus
St. thermophilus
St. paracitrovorus

Species Lactococcus
Lc. lactis subsp. lactis
Lc. lactis subsp. lactis biovar. diacetylactis
Lc. lactis subsp. cremoris

Species Enterococcus
Ent. durans

Species Leuconostoc
Leuc. mesenteroides subsp. cremoris
Leuc. mesenteroides subsp. mesenteroides
Leuc. dextranicum

Yeasts
Dekkera anomala / Brettanomyces anomalus
Kluyveromyces marxianus / Candida kefyr
Pichia fermentans / C. firmetaria
Yarrowia lipolytica / C. lipolytica
Debaryomyces hansenii / C. famata
Deb. [Schwanniomyces] occidentalis
Issatchenkia orientalis / C. krusei
Galactomyces geotrichum / Geotrichum candidum
C. friedrichii
C. rancens
C. tenuis
C. humilis
C. inconspicua
C. maris
Cryptococcus humicolus
Kluyveromyces lactis var. lactis
Kluyv. bulgaricus
Kluyv. lodderae
Saccharomyces cerevisiae
Sacc. subsp. torulopsis holmii
Sacc. pastorianus
Sacc. humaticus
Sacc. unisporus
Sacc. exiguus
Sacc. turicensis sp. nov
Torulaspora delbrueckii
Zygosaccharomyces rouxii

Acetobacter
Acetobacter aceti
Acetobacter rasens

:fro:

I have brewed approximately 15 different batches of beer with kefir grains and I can say that I love it. It is so easy because I can brew small amount of beer. I brew beer from kit and also I brew beer without gluten. The best results were fermented in one gallon with an airlock. The batches without airlock were too vinegary‚ except for beer with fruit like blackberry and chokecherry ‚ those tasted like kriek (cherry beer from Belgian). The fruits helped to balance the taste. One thing really helps to have higher amount of alcohol ‚ is that with the kefir grains I also added beer yeast in. So I have been able to obtain alcohol percentage up to 8% and I am sure that it could have been higher.

 

[alexlinder]

Hi!

Seems like no one has written in this post for a while. I am going to try to activate it like yeast!
I want to brew a kefir beer and I was wondering about a couple of things...

Does anybody know if water kefir grains thrive on wort? Also if the wort is hopped?

If hops do not allow for the bacterial activity that creates the sour flavour... does that mean that they kill the bacteria and only allow for the yeast to grow? Or are there still going to be the probiotic bacteria in the drink, just not producing lactic acid?

Thanks!

 

[platypotamus]

Does anybody know if water kefir grains thrive on wort? Also if the wort is hopped?

I tossed some kefir grains (that I had been using in milk) into the second runnings from my amber ale this past weekend. I wondered about the hops' effects on the grains, too, but I did lightly hop it. I also added a small amount of wlp090 slurry from a previous batch. It's just a one gallon batch, but we'll see what happens. I figure if the bacteria was squelched too much, I'll just make another batch with only kefir grains. They propagate fast enough that I'm always ending up with much more than I need. I'll report back in another week or so.

 

[alexlinder]

I tossed some kefir grains (that I had been using in milk) into the second runnings from my amber ale this past weekend. I wondered about the hops' effects on the grains, too, but I did lightly hop it. I also added a small amount of wlp090 slurry from a previous batch. It's just a one gallon batch, but we'll see what happens. I figure if the bacteria was squelched too much, I'll just make another batch with only kefir grains. They propagate fast enough that I'm always ending up with much more than I need. I'll report back in another week or so.

Thanks! It would be great to hear about the outcome!
I just got my kefir grains so I am waiting for them to grow a bit more and I'll try tossing them in wort. I was thinking about using unhopped wort and then just adding hop tea. But I'll try also with a hopped wort.

 

[RipCityNinja]

Glad this thread was revived! How did the kefir beer turn out with the wort?

 

[alexlinder]

My kefir beer turned out good. I did it with a malted barley sirup and a bit of molasses hopped wort. The taste was sour and good. I guess it could be much better with a "real" wort, i.e. mashing the grains. Since I don't have much time and equipment lately I am just doing kombucha and mead, which is really easy.

 

[GQT]

Do you guys think it would make sense to soak the grain in room temp water a night before mashing, sprinkle it with kefir and mash as usual next morning?
I sometimes do so with my spent grist, and use it next morning to mix with some fresh grain and mash again. Not really sour, but I like mild sour taste better than teeth-gritting.
Now I bumped into this thread and thought, maybe some of you tried it.

I'm planning a brewing Sunday, and am considering slightly souring the grain before mash. Does it sound reasonable/realistic at all?

Thanks.

 

[Gar]

very interesting gotta try this one

 

[TomStuder]

I have been brewing water kefir about a year now. I have used Blackstrap molasses in the first ferment (2-days). Then for flavor, added hops. Basically a fizzy hopwater.

I found the recipe listed earlier in this feed and think I will give it a try!

Any recos, watchouts? I have brewed beer before from kits, but this is a bit of the wild fermentation route.

 

[BackshelfBrew]

I got into brewing kefir beer by accident. When i started there was really not a whole lot out there on how to do it, recipes, etc. Going on almost a year of experimenting. Currently I am fermenting my Pumpkin Ales. I tried to embed a link to my blog i started to document all the variations i currently am trying. I need to update for my pumpkin brews.

http://crazykeifer.blogspot.com/

 

[TomStuder]

I got into brewing kefir beer by accident. When i started there was really not a whole lot out there on how to do it, recipes, etc. Going on almost a year of experimenting. Currently I am fermenting my Pumpkin Ales. I tried to embed a link to my blog i started to document all the variations i currently am trying. I need to update for my pumpkin brews.

http://crazykeifer.blogspot.com/

Do you brew the beer with kefir grains in the 1st ferment or are you brewing a batch of water kefir and adding that to a wort mixture? Checking out your blog now! Thank you for posting.

 

[BackshelfBrew]

That is exactly what I am doing. First ferment has kefir strained out, then that probiotic liquid goes to the wort. Been a fun journey, according to my hydrometer 2nd ferment can get as high as 7-8% ABV. Higher ABV has a negative effect when i bottle with respect to fiz. Still trying to work that out so i have the ABV and the fiz!

 

[Locobikeguide]

I got into fermentations a couple years ago and have enjoyed fermenting a range of things including milk kefir, kombucha, strong kombucha (9% with champagne yeast added to the secondary ferment), cider, perry (with local ornamental very bitter pears) and lacto-fermented vegetables. The sour in kombucha comes mainly from the primary fermentation where ethanol is oxidized to acetic acid by the acetobacter in the scoby. I don't like a vinegary taste in either kombuch or strong kombucha so I stop the primary oxidative fermentation pretty early. During the secondary fermentation additional souring comes from lactobacteria producing lactic acid while the yeast make ethanol. My first fail was a result of yeast giving out due to excessive alcohol while the loctobacteria just kept going producing an overly sour result. Champagne yeast added at the start of the secondary ferment solved that problem but sometimes outcompete the lactobacteria to the point that the final result is not sour enough. I have added kefir grains and additional sugar to strong kombucha for a third fermentation to bulk up the souring and this worked nicely. I doubt that kefir grains have yeast that can go to high alcohol, but the lactobacteria can certainly go up to 9%. I often add ginger root or tumeric root during secondary fermentation and that doesn't seem to affect either the yeast or bacteria despite both these roots having reputations for being antibiotic. For reasons that I don't understand, my kefir grains occasionally produce diacetal (butter flavor) which is ok in milk kefir. I have never had this happen when I added kefir grains to strong kombucha (I have not however added kefir grains when my milk kefir was tasting buttery). I have occasionally added kefir grains to oats and water the night before making oatmeal. The result is always quite sour. I think kefir grains are useful in brewing mainly for the souring that their lactobacteria can produce not for the alcohol that their yeast can produce. I think they could be added with water to malted grains a day or two before brewing to produce lactic acid before the mashing step. They could also be added after brewing is complete to make lactic acid from the higher carbs that yeast can not get at. At the last Fort collins liquid poets club meeting, I tasted a nice sour beer that was made from a very strong and syrupy commercial imperial stout by such souring. One of these days I will try this with kefir grains and Oscar blues ten fidy imperial stout. I don't have the equipment for beer brewing but have brewed beer with a friend who is very experienced. So far we have not made any sours.

 

[kmarkstevens]

Bumping this thread. Any new inputs? My daughter is getting into homemade soda, and her soda mentor gave her some kefir grains. She's gonna do her thing. I'm gonna do mine.

BackShelfBrew - thanks for sharing and the blog posts. I will try the porter. Any feedback on the IBU? What kind of hop did you test?

 

[TomStuder]

I am prepping some grains now. I hope to get a beer doing with them this week. I started with some dehydrated grains and it has taken 2 months to get them fermenting well. Just purchased some from Florida Sun and these are great! Any good recipe ideas?

I can post one for a kombucha beer ... unless there is a better forum feed for that.

 

[Lestrad]

Hi There this is my Kefir Beer brewing, bubbling away on the counter...


Would someone be willing to guess from this list: [...]

View attachment 105258

Once again someone (me) is trying to revive this batch of kefir... Did you ever get an answer to your question? Do you mind posting a source for that list of organisms? In general (and in detail if you like), how is your beer kefir brewing going? I'm back to brewing kefir after over a year away from it, and it's going well. But I want to move towards something like the beer kefir you guys have been discussing here. I envision something based on molasses and/or dark malt extract, with maybe anise and other things added. I see it as a kind of "Root Stout" and would like it to have roughly the ABV (and taste) of Guinness, but with a hint of root beer. Any help and encouragement would be most welcome!
Les

 

[RPh_Guy]

Did you ever get an answer to your question?

Hops inhibit gram positive bacteria. This means the only bacteria growing will be Acetobacter in a hopped beer.

Happy to answer any other questions about wild microbes.

I envision something based on molasses and/or dark malt extract, with maybe anise and other things added. I see it as a kind of "Root Stout" and would like it to have roughly the ABV (and taste) of Guinness, but with a hint of root beer. Any help and encouragement would be most welcome!

It's cool you have an interest in making beer, but kefir grains are not good for handling the fermentation.
It sounds like you should start with a clone recipe for Guinness (with normal brewers yeast) and then add whatever other flavoring adjuncts you want from there.

Hope this helps

 

[Lestrad]

Hops inhibit gram positive bacteria. This means the only bacteria growing will be Acetobacter in a hopped beer.

Happy to answer any other questions about wild microbes.


It's cool you have an interest in making beer, but kefir grains are not good for handling the fermentation.
It sounds like you should start with a clone recipe for Guinness (with normal brewers yeast) and then add whatever other flavoring adjuncts you want from there.

Hope this helps

Thanks. Are all those organisms listed in the OP above in a typical water kefir? And all but one of them would be inhibited by hops? Or might a middle ground not be found? The other posts on this thread suggest that something between kefir (which I make) and beer (which I've also made a good bit of, mostly Belgian Triples) can be achieved, and would have something of the interest of both. That's what I plan to experiment with. Any further help would be much appreciated.
Les

 

[RPh_Guy]

Are all those organisms listed in the OP above in a typical water kefir?

Unlikely. That looks like a somewhat comprehensive list of microbes that could be in any wild alcoholic fermentation. The number of organisms in any particular culture will be much less diverse.

And all but one of them would be inhibited by hops?

Hops only inhibit the gram positive species of bacteria.
The gram negative bacteria (Acetobacter) and all of the yeast genera will be unaffected.

might a middle ground not be found? The other posts on this thread suggest that something between kefir (which I make) and beer (which I've also made a good bit of, mostly Belgian Triples) can be achieved, and would have something of the interest of both.

A kefir culture will probably have difficulty fermenting beer to a "normal" attenuation by itself, hence why the posters above supplement it with brewers yeast.
What attributes of kefir do you want in the beer? (I don't make kefir, so help me out)

 

[Lestrad]

I've been tied up by computer problems, but I wanted to give you a quick answer: I want the "beer" to contain some of the beneficial organisms that are in kefir and that reportedly have a range of health benefits. My own subjective experience with it has been extremely positive, but I'll avoid making claims for it. I'll let you take a look at this or any number of other sites (not all of them commercial).

But to be brief, as a beer lover, I'd like to come up with a result that will taste something like a gueuze or a ginger beer (or, as I mentioned, a stout) and have more of a kick than straight kefir, while keeping some of the benefits. However I'm not ready to believe the claims of up to 8% ABV.

I've found a recipe for a Guinness clone, by the way, and plan to run some experiments.

Thanks again for your responses!

 

[RPh_Guy]

I want the "beer" to contain some of the beneficial organisms that are in kefir [...] with a result that will taste something like a gueuze

OK this is easy. You have two good options:

1. Make your water kefir and sour beer separately and then blend them. This method will better maintain the balance of kefir microbes.
2. Brew beer with yeast and the kefir culture. This method is more simple.

Here's my preferred method of producing a fast, funky, low-carb, sour beer with probiotic bacteria (post-sour method):
You brew with malt extract, right? Even easier.

• 1-2 weeks before "brewing", make a starter for Brettanomyces. WY5526 is excellent. Don't aerate the starter.
• Optional/recommended: make a starter for WLP644 or other flavorful yeast of your choice.
• Optional/recommended: make a buffered starter for L plantarum (Renew Life Ultimate Flora blend is good).
• In your fermenter, mix your unhopped malt extract with RO purified water to target OG 1.040. you can use all pale malt extract or a mix of pale malt and wheat extract.
• Pitch both the Saccharomyces and Brettanomyces.
• Allow to ferment between 70-75°F (assuming you used the recommended yeast; adjust if needed).
• After 2 days pitch your L plantarum +/- your kefir culture. Decant the Lacto starter off the calcium carbonate if applicable. Increase temp to at least 65°F if applicable.
• Add glucoamylase when you pitch the Lacto.
• Ferment to completion. (A week maybe, but you can leave it in primary as long as you want.)
• Optional: Dry hop* x 2-3 days, or add hop tea, or any other flavoring you want (allow to ferment if it contains sugar).
• Optional: Blend with water kefir.
• Package as normal.
• Optional/recommended: Add yeast at bottling from an acid shock starter.
• Carbonate to 2.5 vol CO2.

*Hops added at this point do not kill the bacteria.

Cheers

 

[Sipina]

All I can say for now is BIG THANKS for all the information in the thread. When I do some experiments I will post about it to further enrich the info.

 

[hsnelgrove]

Glad to find this thread as I have been thinking about the same thing. I was wondering if wine or cider might work better than a hop and malt brew beer. Any thoughts?

 

[Lestrad]

Well, I'm resurrecting this thread again. I've been making successful water kefir for a while now, and I want to try an experiment or two. I'd like to try the recipe RPh_Guy so kindly sent a while back, but I'd like to start using just what I have on hand rather than buy two or three organisms. So:

I have 2 liters of Héna kefir in first fermentation (standard, filtered water, 100 ml of organic cane sugar, and a dried fig). What I plan to do is boil up 2 liters of Medium malt extract and hop it, then let it cool and pitch some yeast recovered from a bottle of Maredsous Triple with some commercial Triple-type yeast added, mix it with the kefir liquid, and pour it into two 2-liter bottles with airlocks. (I'll check the OG of both liquids and the mix of the two.) Then just see if it ferments. If it does I guess I'll add sugar and bottle it and see what happens.

If anyone has any tips or observations, I'd love to hear them. I'll report back soon.

Cheers,
Les

 

[rhys333]

Damn. Now I have to do this.

 

[evergreendesign]

i just did a ferment with water kefir ... i did a first brew in kefir. adding spring water, sugar and a dried fig.. then 2 days later i took the top layer from the kefir water, and added it to a new fermenting jar, and added more water with spray malt, and some hops.

it did nothing for 2 days , and then it fizzed like crazy. we tried it after 1 day, and it was sweet... the second day it was much less sweet, could probably leave for longer..

I will continue to experiment .