Keezer Design

[Wpgbeer]

Hello brewers and builders,

Need some help here brainstorming. I presently have a pretty normal keezer setup. It was my first go at it, relatively happy with the project…but I drink a lot of beer and want more taps. No room for a larger freezer upstairs, wife already not overly pleased with a freezer in the family room even though I cladded it with some nice pine so…

In my present setup, these taps actually have a copper manifold on the underside of the lid…getting cool air to the taps works as it’s less than a foot and copper does a great drop of conducting. Plus I spray foamed. It works. No condensation, just cold beer, no foam.

To the point, sorry…so I want to put a larger freezer in the basement, 6 taps in the family room, similar design (with the iron pipe) but it will be a single ‘loop’ iron pipe draft tower with branch taps as opposed to three standalone taps like I have…will have a standard collar on the keezer and punch a hole through the side of the wood collar to take the beer lines upstairs…through my wall. (Luckily I have an empty wall cavity to do this, exactly where I want it)

total distance is 8’. Almost straightup, but I do need to navigate some stuff so a few 22.5 degree pvc fittings to get up there.

I’ve read as much as I could, but can’t find anything specific. Give me ideas. Not thrilled on glycol. $$$$. Plus I’m not sure It’s necessary on 8’?

I was thinking blowing air with a blower and return (maybe 4” pvc insulated?)…could it work with 8’ distance ? Then I thought, what about 1/4 or 3/8soft copper (have lots) in an insulated sleeve doing a loop, up to the taps and back down to a coil in the keezer, similar to an immersion chiller and a pump on a timer.

I don’t know, want to do this but not sure how I can make it work.

Yes, three more taps, and no upstairs footprint, is totally worth it

 

[Henbrew]

I like the idea of blowing the air through PVC with a return, simple and effective. As long as you insulate it well enough you should be good to go.

Whatever you do, I'd build this outside the wall just to test it out.

 

[Tallgrass]

I have seen a few examples of PVC feeding cold air into a wall mounted insulated box but not a tower.
Unless I'm missing something, you would have to reduce the 4" PVC to the diameter of the black iron? With 6 beer lines in the same black iron it seems like you would be restricting the flow of air quite a bit.

An insulated trunk line will definitely work but how you chill it is important. I tried a pump in 6 gallons of water inside my keezer. Overnight that water reservoir temp rose to 10 degrees warmer than the keezer temp. Circulating 45 degree water isn't good enough.

A chiller can be made for very little money. I built one to save ice a few years back with a free window air conditioner and a large cooler I already had. That chiller now cools wort, chills a trunk line and can chill a 15 gallon fermenter down to 40 degrees with plain water. No glycol and my trunk line return comes back just 1 degree warmer than it left.

If you're only need for a chiller would be to chill beer lines.... I did see a post somewhere here in which someone used a small dorm sized freezer to hold a container of glycol. I believe the cold plate for the freezer was moved into the glycol container. That could be a clean quiet option for a short run.

You can buy trunk line or make your own. I made my own with EVABarrier beverage lines and 3/8 soft copper. I didn't have any tight bends and I like the way the copper holds whatever shape the trunk line is bent.
Here is a thread with a lot of good information and links to the correct products to build your own.

My advice, if it wasn't already evident, is to do it right once.

 

[Deadalus]

How deep is the wall cavity, what size are the studs? A 2x6 wall is usually needed for 3" PVC pipe. You would be cutting through the base plate completely on a 2x4 wall with 3" PVC and just a straight pipe never mind the fittings. Three and four inch PVC is typically planned for in the house plans. You may have the wall space but thought I would ask.

You wouldn't need that size PVC necessarily. There are calculators for fitting pipes inside pipes. 2" PVC will fit inside a 2x4. I've not found the rules for holes in base plates. I think it's dependent on whether the wall is bearing or not. There are structural straps too that you can add for support.

Transitioning between black pipe and PVC is easy, threaded PVC fittings most times are NPT.

 

[Wpgbeer]

I have seen a few examples of PVC feeding cold air into a wall mounted insulated box but not a tower.
Unless I'm missing something, you would have to reduce the 4" PVC to the diameter of the black iron? With 6 beer lines in the same black iron it seems like you would be restricting the flow of air quite a bit.

An insulated trunk line will definitely work but how you chill it is important. I tried a pump in 6 gallons of water inside my keezer. Overnight that water reservoir temp rose to 10 degrees warmer than the keezer temp. Circulating 45 degree water isn't good enough.

A chiller can be made for very little money. I built one to save ice a few years back with a free window air conditioner and a large cooler I already had. That chiller now cools wort, chills a trunk line and can chill a 15 gallon fermenter down to 40 degrees with plain water. No glycol and my trunk line return comes back just 1 degree warmer than it left.

If you're only need for a chiller would be to chill beer lines.... I did see a post somewhere here in which someone used a small dorm sized freezer to hold a container of glycol. I believe the cold plate for the freezer was moved into the glycol container. That could be a clean quiet option for a short run.

You can buy trunk line or make your own. I made my own with EVABarrier beverage lines and 3/8 soft copper. I didn't have any tight bends and I like the way the copper holds whatever shape the trunk line is bent.
Here is a thread with a lot of good information and links to the correct products to build your own.

My advice, if it wasn't already evident, is to do it right once.

Great tips. Thanks. I might just do something like that

 

[Wpgbeer]

How deep is the wall cavity, what size are the studs? A 2x6 wall is usually needed for 3" PVC pipe. You would be cutting through the base plate completely on a 2x4 wall with 3" PVC and just a straight pipe never mind the fittings. Three and four inch PVC is typically planned for in the house plans. You may have the wall space but thought I would ask.

You wouldn't need that size PVC necessarily. There are calculators for fitting pipes inside pipes. 2" PVC will fit inside a 2x4. I've not found the rules for holes in base plates. I think it's dependent on whether the wall is bearing or not. There are structural straps too that you can add for support.

Transitioning between black pipe and PVC is easy, threaded PVC fittings most times are NPT.

I think I’ll be ok. Not sure if it wasn’t clear but I’m actually fortune in that it’s the old chimney cavity, exactly where I’d need it to be. So there’s lots of space.

 

[JeffersonStateBrewing]

Is there any reason not to use copper tube/pipe for beer line?

I read your post and immediatly coming to mind was a tube in tube cooler like a counter flow wort chiller or distillate condenser on a home size still.

Run the copper beer line, say 1/4 up the center of a 1/2 line with a return as close to the tap as possible and cycle cold water or glycol as discussed above. You could easily get six 1/2 lines to fit in a space about the size of a 4 inch pvc pipe.

If you went this route, you might be able to use Eva barrier hose inside a 3/4 copper pipe with some creative fittings.

I like copper, obviously there might be other and better options.

For my keeper I was planning 2 taps, one for seltzer water and one for still water. I was planning to fit a coil of copper or stainless into the corney keg, routed thru the corney lid (picture a fermenter cooling cool) from city water to keeper tap. Cycling the water thru the coil in the cooled keg should keep the tap water temp down. Maybe something similar to cool your beer lines on a circulating pump might do the trick? Just my crazy thoughts.

Post lots of pictures! We want to see what you end up doing.

 

[day_trippr]

There's a fairly big reason not to use copper plumbing for beer: beer pH is well into the acidic range and would most likely leach copper into the beer...

Cheers!