Keep getting a "sweet" taste in brews.

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jcs401

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I have been brewing for a couple years now and have done multiple different types of brews. From extract, two partial mash, to all grain. I am what seems like almost constantly getting this sweet type flavor in my brews when I keg and try them. I am usually very patient in not serving until some aging accurs. I have tried many many different recipes from wheat beers,pale ales,IPA, and more and STILL continue to get this flavor. It's not a flavor that's really described in "off flavors" as it isn't grassy and such. I have tried googling it and found a post on here from years ago where someone weekend to be having the same issue however it was never resolved and kept leading torwards carb drops being the culprit. Well I don't use those so I don't see that being an issue. Like I said I have tried many recipes, from kits to beer smith ones to even straight up ones out of John palmers book. Can anyone please, please help give some ideah what this may be. I have Brewer enough and have leaned many things along the way which have significantly gotten rid of other flavors I had issues with but this one I just cannot kick out of my beers. Any ideas? Where to start?
 
Hard to give a definite answer without your recipes etc, but my first two thoughts would go to your mash temp and mash pH.
 
I understand not having the recipes is a bit tricky. The last brew I did was the pale ale recipe out of how to brew by John
Palmer. I mash usually at 152 writhing a degree or so and use ph stabilizer with ro water
 
Without, being able to taste it, wed need a few example recipes of some of the offending beers. Everything from OG/FG to water profile to really help

it may just be easier to send a few to some veteran brewer
 
First of all post a recipe which resulted in this flavor. Post the OG FG and expected FG.
 
I like how in the old thread, carbonation drops were the culprit.

*LOL*

Sugar actually doesn't make beer sweet... I know, I know, this is old and not part of this thread, but it's hilarious!
 
I like how in the old thread, carbonation drops were the culprit.

*LOL*

Sugar actually doesn't make beer sweet... I know, I know, this is old and not part of this thread, but it's hilarious!

I suppose there could be a situation where the yeast was too stressed or had somehow completely flocced out and wasn't fermenting the carb drop completely leaving some of the sugar unfermented.... maybe...
 
I like how in the old thread, carbonation drops were the culprit.

*LOL*

Sugar actually doesn't make beer sweet... I know, I know, this is old and not part of this thread, but it's hilarious!

Off topic but I've been meaning to consume one like a cough drop just for kicks but I keep forgetting and the package I have floating around somewhere is probably really old
 
I would love to send some for people to try! Is that legal? How to do so if it is?
I usually have no problem biting my target OG which have all been between 1.047-1.052. And FG is 1.011-1.013..Usually I use safe ale us-05 for most. Tried muntons gold also and both keep getting that sweetness taste.
I'm sorry I don't have all the recipes I have tried but I can find at least the kit ones I have done from either Austin homebrew or northern Brewer. I would just have to go on and look at my previous orders which I will do ASAP.
I also ferment in temp control fridge roughly for all between 64-68 degrees. I am so down to ship some beer to try to figure out what the hell this is. I will say that I have had a little trouble getting a "vigorous" fermentation and some have been very slow to start seeing in the airlock and some hardly bubble at all so perhaps I'm not getting good fermentation but then why would the OG drop from say 1.048-1.012 for FG.
I'm sorry but I just really want to figure this **** out because it is driving me nuts. Like I said I do not use sugar or drops to carb with my keg so that's not it. Also, the smell has a "sweet" type of dose as well.
Any advice on this is unbelievably appreciated!
 
Off topic but I've been meaning to consume one like a cough drop just for kicks but I keep forgetting and the package I have floating around somewhere is probably really old

It's just sugar - it won't hurt you.

;)
 
I would try switching to wlp 001/wyeast 1056 for a batch and see if that makes a difference. I know 05 can give peach flavors at lower temps so you may be getting that which you are misinterpreting as residual sweetness. Just a thought.
 
Like others have said, I'd be interested in seeing the FG relative to the OG. Without knowing exactly the grain bill and mash temps, my first instinct would be to look at yeast health. If you under pitch yeast, or if your yeast doesn't have the stuff present in the wort to get a good healthy fermentation going right off of the bat, then you'll increase ester production and can potentially get a slightly under attenuated beer. Those two things combined would make a beer taste a bit sweet or fruity, or my most hated descriptor "homebrewey".

Make sure you're pitching enough good yeast (I would say a pack of s05 into a 1050ish beer is sufficient), use nutrient, airate properly, and watch for your final gravities. Also, don't pitch too hot. Ester production happens early in the process, and if you pitch at 75-80, you're likely to get more fruitiness than you want. Try to cool at least to your desired fermentation temperature, if not a few degrees lower.

I'm not sure where you're located, but around here you could bring a beer into the local brew shop or find a local brew club and they would/should be happy to help diagnose what's going on. If you have neither of them nearby, maybe seek out the input of your local microbrewery (everywhere has one of those these days). I can't imagine a brewer at a craft brewery wouldn't at least try to give you some good feedback.
 
I am starting to think it may have to do with fermentation. I live I. Texas and I use an immersion chiller to get down to roughly 85 or so in about 15-20 min. I have a hard time getting much below that with the chiller so I usually then transfer to my stainless brew bucket and let sit (with lid) for a bit until it get to about 75 or so. Sometimes this does take a bit.lwouid this cause the "sweetness" possibly?
 
Pitching warm could potentially do that as the majority of ester production happens in the lag phase of the cycle...which is the first few hours. It's kind of an expensive fix, but you could add a second immersion chiller (a smaller one with less expensive stainless maybe) that you put into a bucket full of ice water. The water can go through that before getting to your immersion chiller which will help chill faster and further.

When ground water is in the 70's, it makes chilling tough. I have the same problem in the summer, so that's when I rig up my old immersion chiller in a bucket of ice to chill the water prior to getting to my plate chiller.

I try to pitch most of my ales around 60-62 unless I want the ester/phenol production (like for something belgian for example), and then I'll let them rise to 64-68 depending on the beer.
 
Off topic but I've been meaning to consume one like a cough drop just for kicks but I keep forgetting and the package I have floating around somewhere is probably really old


My kid will consume as many as I'll donate...guilty of trying one my self and they're....sugar! Not bad.
 
Pitching warm could potentially do that. It's kind of an expensive fix, but you could add a second immersion chiller (a smaller one with less expensive stainless maybe) that you put into a bucket full of ice water. The water can go through that before getting to your immersion chiller which will help chill faster and further.

When ground water is in the 70's, it makes chilling tough. I have the same problem in the summer, so that's when I rig up my old immersion chiller in a bucket of ice to chill the water prior to getting to my plate chiller.

I try to pitch most of my ales around 60-62 unless I want the ester/phenol production (like for something belgian for example), and then I'll let them rise to 64-68 depending on the beer.

Even cheaper fix that I use to combat the summer heat and warm tap water of N. California (requires planning):
1. Go to Harbor Freight or Amazon and get a cheap/small pond pump.
2. Save milk or juice containers (paper half gallon), fill with water and freeze a couple days prior to your brew day .
3. Break up frozen milk/juice containers into a bucket or ice chest and fill with cold tap water to top of ice level.
4. Once you have gotten as low as you can with hose water hookup the inlet of your IC to the pond pump and the outlet into the bucket of ice water.
5. Place pond pump in ice bucket and run until you reach your desired pitching temp.

Usually only takes a few additional minutes. I tried the pre-chiller technique with a second IC that I made and the pond pump seems to work faster and does not waste water in the middle of a drought that keeps me from watering my lawn.
 
Even cheaper fix that I use to combat the summer heat and warm tap water of N. California (requires planning):
1. Go to Harbor Freight or Amazon and get a cheap/small pond pump.
2. Save milk or juice containers (paper half gallon), fill with water and freeze a couple days prior to your brew day .
3. Break up frozen milk/juice containers into a bucket or ice chest and fill with cold tap water to top of ice level.
4. Once you have gotten as low as you can with hose water hookup the inlet of your IC to the pond pump and the outlet into the bucket of ice water.
5. Place pond pump in ice bucket and run until you reach your desired pitching temp.

Usually only takes a few additional minutes. I tried the pre-chiller technique with a second IC that I made and the pond pump seems to work faster and does not waste water in the middle of a drought that keeps me from watering my lawn.

That's a good idea that just takes some advanced planning, and it certainly is more water responsible.

I'd think that even taking the kettle into a simple immersion bath full of ice water for the last 5-10 minutes would take care of it. If you can get it to 75 degrees in 15 minutes, I would imagine you could drop it another 10 degrees with an ice bath in another 10 minutes.
 
That's a good idea that just takes some advanced planning, and it certainly is more water responsible.

I'd think that even taking the kettle into a simple immersion bath full of ice water for the last 5-10 minutes would take care of it. If you can get it to 75 degrees in 15 minutes, I would imagine you could drop it another 10 degrees with an ice bath in another 10 minutes.

Very true, lower tech and even cheaper......until I have to pay for a hotel room when my wife is pi**ed that i spilled five to ten gallons (depending on batch) of wort all over the house trying to get it into the bath tub.
 
I usually mash for 60-70 min. I am using the stabilizer in my mashes. I usually use ro water and add calcium chloride I believe.
 
I usually mash for 60-70 min. I am using the stabilizer in my mashes. I usually use ro water and add calcium chloride I believe.

I really think that the issue is as simple as this.

First, ditch that stabilizer junk. It doesn't work, and it's not needed in RO water even if it DID work.

Then, instead of just adding the cacl2 (which does enhance sweetness, or rather, 'fullness'), let us help you with some water additions and some acid additions to get the proper mash pH and some calcium sulfate for hoppy beers.

Increasing the calcium will enhance yeast flocculation, and sulfate will enhance the perception of dryness.

There are spreadsheets out there to help with this, and I think bru'nwater is the best, but even if you don't use the spreadsheet, this water knowledge page will help a lot with the understanding of what things like sulfate will do for your beers: https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/water-knowledge (scroll down a bit).
 
I really think that the issue is as simple as this.



First, ditch that stabilizer junk. It doesn't work, and it's not needed in RO water even if it DID work.



Then, instead of just adding the cacl2 (which does enhance sweetness, or rather, 'fullness'), let us help you with some water additions and some acid additions to get the proper mash pH and some calcium sulfate for hoppy beers.



Increasing the calcium will enhance yeast flocculation, and sulfate will enhance the perception of dryness.



There are spreadsheets out there to help with this, and I think bru'nwater is the best, but even if you don't use the spreadsheet, this water knowledge page will help a lot with the understanding of what things like sulfate will do for your beers: https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/water-knowledge (scroll down a bit).



Is there a way to use RO water and have like a standard of calcium or other additives to achieve a good water profile? Or is this not possible?
 
I really think that the issue is as simple as this.



First, ditch that stabilizer junk. It doesn't work, and it's not needed in RO water even if it DID work.



Then, instead of just adding the cacl2 (which does enhance sweetness, or rather, 'fullness'), let us help you with some water additions and some acid additions to get the proper mash pH and some calcium sulfate for hoppy beers.



Increasing the calcium will enhance yeast flocculation, and sulfate will enhance the perception of dryness.



There are spreadsheets out there to help with this, and I think bru'nwater is the best, but even if you don't use the spreadsheet, this water knowledge page will help a lot with the understanding of what things like sulfate will do for your beers: https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/water-knowledge (scroll down a bit).



Is there a way to use RO water and have like a standard of calcium or other additives to achieve a good water profile? Or is this not possible?
 
Also, I do not have this sweet type finish in a porter I brewed. If that helps. I was told it could have to die with the dissolved ions and ph and that darker grains tend to correct this
 
Also, I do not have this sweet type finish in a porter I brewed. If that helps. I was told it could have to die with the dissolved ions and ph and that darker grains tend to correct this

Not the "dissolved ions", but yes the pH is probably better when you use roasted grains if you're not using any acid in the mash to get to the right mash pH.

You can start with something really simple, like adding some calcium chloride (which you do) and some calcium sulfate (gypsum), and some lactic acid for a decent mash pH, but that's still not going to be "right" unless you know how much acid you need to hit the proper mash pH. A spreadsheet is very handy for this to guess approximately what you need.
 
Just seems so odd to me. Should RO water be RO water regardless where you are in the world? If so, then why is it different per person to person to add different minerals? Would t it be the same minerals for each person if they used ro water to begin with? Of course changing additives per beer styles though.
 
Is there a way to use RO water and have like a standard of calcium or other additives to achieve a good water profile? Or is this not possible?

Read post #1 here....https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=198460
It describes basic additions to soft or RO water, Cacl2, gypsum, acidulated malt. this may be all you need.

The brunwater spread sheet (among others) will work with all waters including RO.

There may be a thread around here somewhere where people who use RO have posted their favorite water profiles that they use. Might be worth a search.

Oh, and quit the 5.2 Stabilizer. The fact that your porter does not have the sweet taste points to the use of additional acid in your lighter beer recipies (acidulated malt or what yooper recommended). Roasted malts like those in porters tend to lower the mash pH.
 
Just seems so odd to me. Should RO water be RO water regardless where you are in the world? If so, then why is it different per person to person to add different minerals? Would t it be the same minerals for each person if they used ro water to begin with? Of course changing additives per beer styles though.

It's not different person to person, but rather different grain bills bring different amounts of acid to the mash (in general, the darker, the more acid they bring.) Since the optimal range for pH is fairly narrow, it is necessary to adjust RO water differently for different grain bills. That's why the spreadsheets are so useful.

Brew on :mug:
 
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