KBS Clone Recipe in Zymurgy!

[peregrinebio]

mattjmac,

How was the coffee flavor in your's? It looks like we brewed this about the same time, I brewed on 8/13. Tasted yesterday and it was great. The bourbon has mellowed into the background, oak is coming out but not overtly, but the coffee flavor is completely gone. Mine came out a lot stronger than the recipe. My mash was too efficient and instead of an OG of 1.092, I hit 1.11! I'm wondering if the coffee got lost in all the malt.

Anyhow, SWMBO and I both think it's ready for bottling, but I'm thinking of adding another infusion of cold press coffee at bottling. However, I'm worried that the coffee will become too strong then. Any opinions???

Cheers!

 

[mattjmac]

My brew buddies and I are bottling this tomorrow (while doing a Bourbon County Stout vertical tasting from '07 to '10 and cracking open one of my bottles of Dark Lord!) I haven't tasted it since I transferred to secondary way back at the end of August. I'll be sure to reply back here with the results and I'll let you know how the coffee taste is. I'm actually glad to hear you say the coffee taste is almost nonexistent...I was really concerned with the amount of coffee this recipe called for and was afraid the coffee taste would be overpowering.

 

[ohiobrewtus]

I don't see where the OP posted how the finished product was... did I miss it or do we need to endlessly harass him?

 

[mattjmac]

Not sure about the OP's results, but I can say that we bottled this today and the coffee flavor was dominant closely followed by chocolate. We are all very excited to see how this turns out in a few weeks. I'd say if you can't taste the coffee a cold-pressed addition at bottling couldn't hurt things. Let me know how it turns out.

 

[peregrinebio]

Nice. I couldn't make up my mind so I'm doing both. Half sans extra coffee, half with. Bottling tomorrow! This beer already tastes great. Can wait to see how it turns out in a few week, a few months, next year!

 

[jim313]

What F.G. did you guys end up with (before the bourbon)? I used WYeast Irish Ale 1084 and it is struggling to get below 1.030, O.G. was 1.092. Primary ferment temp is 63 F.

 

[peregrinebio]

I don't have my notes with me, but mine finished somewhere around 1.030 too. However, I started with an O.G. of 1.11. I used WLP 001 and that is right at the low range of it's attenuation. Your attenuation seems a little low for 1084. What temp did you mash at? How long has it been in primary?

 

[jim313]

I don't have my notes with me, but mine finished somewhere around 1.030 too. However, I started with an O.G. of 1.11. I used WLP 001 and that is right at the low range of it's attenuation. Your attenuation seems a little low for 1084. What temp did you mash at? How long has it been in primary?

Yeah I was hoping for 75% attenuation with the 1084 which would put me at 1.022 F.G.

I mashed at 154, it's been in the primary for 8 days now. I made a healthy starter, pumped O2 in the wort and lag time was about 6 hours.

I'll take another reading in 2 days.

 

[peregrinebio]

Yeah, it seems that you should be able to get lower. I've never used 1084 myself so I don't know how flocculant it is, but you could try rousing the yeast.

A little more time may help too. I remember mine took a couple weeks to fully attenuate.

Cheers

 

[jim313]

Yeah, it seems that you should be able to get lower. I've never used 1084 myself so I don't know how flocculant it is, but you could try rousing the yeast.

A little more time may help too. I remember mine took a couple weeks to fully attenuate.

Cheers

After 2 weeks it is holding at 1.027 I guess I'm fine with that. Off to the secondary!!

 

[Apendecto]

I don't see where the OP posted how the finished product was... did I miss it or do we need to endlessly harass him?

If you won't, I will.

HOW'D IT TURN OUT, ASS!?!? How's that?

 

[JOHN51277]

Ok, so.......Life has really been a little too busy. I moved, rehabbed the house, and have not brewed in months. I feel as though there is a void in my life. I lost 45 lbs. and life is good (besides not brewing).

This stuff turned out awesome! Out of everyone who has tried it, AND Founders. I have had one person tell me they like the original better. It is the same thing, but different. It is THE best brew I have done to date. (since 2002) I bottled 90% of it after keg carbing and DAMN it ages very well.

If you want KBS this year, which looks like it will be very hard to find, and you can't find it. Brew this!

I will use real cocoa nibs next time though. The chocolate level could have been a little more noticeable. I have also thought about doing the Canadian version of this with some real maple syrup.

 

[wolverinebrewer]

This stuff turned out awesome! Out of everyone who has tried it, AND Founders. I have had one person tell me they like the original better. It is the same thing, but different. It is THE best brew I have done to date. (since 2002) I bottled 90% of it after keg carbing and DAMN it ages very well.

If you want KBS this year, which looks like it will be very hard to find, and you can't find it. Brew this!

This sounds awesome. I will have to put it on the "to brew" list. Thanks for updating.
A friend of mine drove 2 hours to the KBS release party last weekend and it was all gone before he got to try it. So he had to go to plan B: Nemesis and Looking Glass

 

[psychobrawler]

I just put mine one tap from a brewing last September. At my last HBC meeting I brought a bottle, and during a night of commercial beer tasting (about 50 beers) it was agreed to be the 2nd best thing there. With the best being a 5 year old Samichlaus Bier...

I just bought some KBS, but have not done a side by side yet. For my own tastes, I'd keep the recipe as is except double the oak and maybe increase the bourbon by 25-50%. But that's a personal preference because I like a more pronounced bourbon barrel flavor.

 

[JOHN51277]

I did add extra Buffalo Trace bourbon to mine. I like bourbon!!!!!

 

[psychobrawler]

I get no oak and little bourbon flavor as is. Chocolate and coffee dominate. Coffee in aroma and chocolate in flavor. It's delicious, but I need a bit more. Swapping some base malt for sugar worked out great. Final gravity at kegging was about 1.016. That dry for this big a beer makes it wonderfully drinkable.

 

[mattjmac]

I brought a bottle of this to a tasting at Goose Island (1st Thursday of every month). One of their assistant brewers tried it and gave me some very positive feedback. My version turned out a little heavy on the coffee, but he was impressed with it nonetheless. To quote him "I would brew this and sell it easily".

Yesterday my buddy tells me Goose Island is releasing a beer named "Big John" that is a RIS with heavy coffee/chocolate undertones. Now, I don't think for a second the taste of my beer inspired "Big John", after all, they'd probably already brewed theirs at that point and it was aging, but the announcement of this beer release certainly explains why he was interested in my beer.

This beer is amazing. I'd recommend it to anybody with a ton of patience and a bunch of empty 22oz bomber bottles laying around.

 

[peregrinebio]

My update. We cracked the first bottle on New Years and have been drinking a bottle at the beginning of every month (gave a bunch away for Christmas). I have enough to drink one a month for the next year and then one every new years for the next five years. We are thinking of making this an annual brew and every New Years having a vertical tasting. We'll see if I have the self control

Anyhow this weekend we did a side by side tasting with KBS. Mine was blind. I misidentified both aroma and appearance, and only after 5 minutes of deliberation did I identify mine by taste. They are pretty fricking close. Definitely the closest clone I've ever brewed. Small differences, even though I finished at 1.029 we thought the KBS was a bit sweeter. Mine had a bit more bourbon in the nose but the KBS has more bourbon flavor. The KBS has a little more oak too. If I were to do anything different, I would leave it on the oak longer than the 3 months I did.

I highly recommend this recipe.

 

[MI_Craig]

How long did you guys end up leaving it in the secondary with the oak?

 

[peregrinebio]

How long did you guys end up leaving it in the secondary with the oak?

Three months on 3oz of oak cubes. I might go longer this year to up the oakiness or use more oak. If you're not aware, read up on the difference between cubes versus chips. I guess you only want to use chips for a couple of weeks.

 

[Yeahman99]

My friends and I are brewing this up this weekend. 50 gallons of it going into a bourbon barrel in a couple of weeks.

 

[SonicUrineBoy]

Does anybody know why this recipe calls for fermentation at such a low temperature? I thought the yeast that it calls for usually ferments at a normal room temp. Am I missing something?

 

[dannypo]

That is about normal for most yeasts. I rarely start fermentation above 65.

 

[Homercidal]

Am I right in reading that you only pour 1 cup of bourbon into 5 gallons of this beer? I made a stout last year with 1 cup and it was barely noticeable IMO...

 

[SonicUrineBoy]

That is about normal for most yeasts. I rarely start fermentation above 65.

http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/strains_wlp001.html

WLP001 California Ale Yeast
This yeast is famous for its clean flavors, balance and ability to be used in almost any style ale. It accentuates the hop flavors and is extremely versatile.
Attenuation: 73-80%
Flocculation: Medium
Optimum Fermentation Temperature: 68-73°F
Alcohol Tolerance: High

Where are you getting your information from? Is there some unwritten rule to ferment well under the recommended temperature?

 

[Homercidal]

I try to chill down to 65-70. I keep my fridge at 65. The beer should produce some of it's own heat, which would likely raise the temp a few degrees to hit the 68 White Labs states.

Plus, it's not that the beer will not ferment, or that it won't be as good a couple of degree lower, but might be harder to start, or take longer to finish.

As with most everything else in brewing, there is wiggle room in this. I doubt that setting your temp controller for 68 instead of 65 is going to make a noticeable difference in the final product.

 

[datamike]

http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/strains_wlp001.html


Where are you getting your information from? Is there some unwritten rule to ferment well under the recommended temperature?

I am guessing the information came from the brewer.

001/1056 has a fairly wide range of fermentation temps. Lower temps result in a cleaner beer with less esters. Higher-temps result in more "fruity" flavors and the potential for some "off-flavors", though this strain is relatively forgiving in this respect.

Commercial brewers sometimes ferment at higher temperatures as the nature of tall, cylindroconical fermenters inhibits ester formation. Thus, homebrewers often ferment at relatively lower temps to end up with a similar flavor profile.

Fermentation temps used by a specific brewer are usually the result of experimentation, experience, type of fermenter, etc.

Banish the notion of "room temperature" fermentation if you're interested in making the best beer. Fermentation temperature control is absolutely critical to beer quality.

Michael

 

[SonicUrineBoy]

I am guessing the information came from the brewer.

001/1056 has a fairly wide range of fermentation temps. Lower temps result in a cleaner beer with less esters. Higher-temps result in more "fruity" flavors and the potential for some "off-flavors", though this strain is relatively forgiving in this respect.

Commercial brewers sometimes ferment at higher temperatures as the nature of tall, cylindroconical fermenters inhibits ester formation. Thus, homebrewers often ferment at relatively lower temps to end up with a similar flavor profile.

Fermentation temps used by a specific brewer are usually the result of experimentation, experience, type of fermenter, etc.

Banish the notion of "room temperature" fermentation if you're interested in making the best beer. Fermentation temperature control is absolutely critical to beer quality.

Michael

Thanks. This is all valuable information to me. I'm relatively new to homebrewing (About to start my 4th brew) so this is all helpful. The reason I asked my initial question is because I have yet to acquire a fridge for fermentation, and wanted to know if it is needed or worth buying one for this brew. I don't have much room for a full size fridge, but would like something smaller. I'm hoping to find a minifridge that is big enough for my carboy.

 

[Craigweiser]

Please, is there a consensus?? Should i be aging on .25 oz cubes or chips for 2-6 months?

 

[j62usa]

I plugged this recipe into Beersmith (first time using this software) and I am coming up with IBU of 24.4. The founders KBS comes in at 70 IBU's am i missing the baot somewhere?

Joe