Altbier Kaiser Alt

[fredthecat]

used this recipe mostly, especially the single decoction part (my first), though i change the grainbill to half munich, half pils and i dont have access to carafa so used chocolate instead. just tasted one after 6 days (i always have to have one per week after.. ) i can tell already it will likely be the best beer ive made so far. thanks!

 

[JBrady]

well this is so far the best damn beer I have ever made. I can't wait to brew this with the water profile that you specified. thanks for the great recipe.

 

[NYCBrewGuy]

I brewed this with only a few changes: didn't adjust water (NYC tap always seems to work OK for me), primed with sugar instead of krausening.

This was my first brew with my new wine fridge fermentation chamber and I was able to keep it nice and cool even during a HOT New York summer. The results were incredible. A clean, balanced, easy drinking Alt. I've only had one commercial sample to compare to, Southampton Dusseldorf Alt. And while I'm not surprised that my version isn't quite up to snuff, this is without a doubt the best homebrew I've produced.
Thanks Kaiser!

I should also say that since taking up homebrewing I have developed a newfound appreciation for German styles. Its easy to cover-up flaws with massive amounts of hops, spices, etc. But it's deceptively hard to make clean, crisp, delicious beers. Definitely gonna try a bock this winter (my first lager!).

Cheers

 

[petergriffen]

All I have for yeast is Saflager w-34/70, is this a bad idea?

 

[arturo7]

Not a bad idea, just not an Alt.

 

[petergriffen]

Any idea how much it'll change the flavor?

 

[petergriffen]

So for my first non single infustion. I followed this below but have one question.

This was my decoction method (5gal with 10.6lb of grain): I doughed in with 3.3gal for 20mins at 132 [Protein] .. then I added another 1.7 gal of boiling water, held temp of 153 for 45 more mins. [Sac. Rest] (While the decoction boils does this, the sac rest just sit there? Because that 1.5g I took out took about 20 to boil and then boiled for 20 so it was more like a 1hr20min sac rest, right?)Then I removed 1.5 gal of mash and brought that to a boil for 20mins. Returned this to the mash - and then mashed out. I batch sparged with another 3.5 gal of 175 water to get my desired boil amount.

 

[petergriffen]

delete

 

[oldman2251]

Thanks for the recipe, this is one great beer. I have never had an Alt so I have nothing to compare it to, this is one darn good beer. I fermented at 64*F, fined with gelatin, and lagered for 10 days at 38*F. This is one tasty beer and plan on doing this again, just a great clean flavor. One question, do you have any more recipes to share! Once again thanks for sharing a great beer with us.:rockin:

 

[Flywheel]

Any extract version? Sorry...still an extracter....

 

[meister]

used this recipe mostly, especially the single decoction part (my first), though i change the grainbill to half munich, half pils and i dont have access to carafa so used chocolate instead. just tasted one after 6 days (i always have to have one per week after.. ) i can tell already it will likely be the best beer ive made so far. thanks!

Half pils, half munich here too,
my hydro sample tasted wonderful today day 6, kinda bitter, But wl036 sweet taste, I cant wait,...I dont like carafa so i used 4oz chocolate wheat, and i can taste it in the sample.
I did 118deg. 20 minutes, infusion 147 for 25 min. 154 for 25 min. then mashed out at 168. first step mash for me, i think it will pay off,,, also fwh with mt-hood/spalt mix, Im certain this to be my best ever, this style is great.:rockin:...good luck with yours

 

[Randar]

Brewing this today and did my first decoction as instructed here and followed the mash schedule to a T. Worked out perfectly so far. I had to throw on a little tradition with the spalt since the only spalt I had were very low alpha% so I kicked it with just 3/4 oz of tradition for a 14.5 gal batch.

The decoction was way easier than I anticipated even after I had watched Kai's youtube vids.

 

[hollywoodbrew]

Okay, three weeks in and looks like the FG is around 1.010. I used WLP029 and this is the clearest beer I have ever made! I won't be needing the gelatin addition. I think I used the wrong yeast, I guess WLP036 is the proper equivalent to WY1007. It's still very sweet and malty like a brown ale. I wonder if I let it sit another week if it will get any drier?

I think next time I'll adjust the Cl-SO4 ratio in the water profile to subdue the malt a bit more.

 

[JagCrusher]

Sorry, newbie question please ...

What would be the best dry yeast for this recipe?

Thanks!

(Oh, and Kai, many thanks for braukaiser.com... an amazing repository of great info!)

 

[Sudz]

Forgive my ignorance but I'm attempting to reproduce Kai's water recommendations and I'm a tad confused on the amount of water involved.

I think I understand he is putting 400mg of NaCl into 30L of RO water along with the other mineral amounts as well...

So his mineral quantities are utilized with 30L and I should scale as required for my needs?

Is this a correct understanding?

 

[michaeltrego]

Yes, I believe he's treating 30L (8 gal.), which would likely be 4 gal. strike water and 4 gal. sparge water for a 5.5 gal. batch. He specifies 0.8g NaCl, which would be 800mg not 400mg.

 

[Sudz]

He specifies 0.8g NaCl, which would be 800mg not 400mg.

Thanks for the response.

I guess I'm looking at the wrong data?? I see .4g NaCl on his list for WATER. Where are you seeing the .8g NaCl? I'm not trying to be picky, I just want to insure I'm using the correct data.

 

[michaeltrego]

Thanks for the response.

I guess I'm looking at the wrong data?? I see .4g NaCl on his list for WATER. Where are you seeing the .8g NaCl? I'm not trying to be picky, I just want to insure I'm using the correct data.

Hmm, I was looking at the recipe page: Kaiser Alt - German brewing and more, which shows:

30L (assuming 25L (6.25 gal) pre-boil volume) reverse osmosis water +

0.8g NaCl (table salt)
0.6g MgSO4 (epsom salt)
1.8g NaHCO3 (baking soda)
4.0g CaCO3 (chalk)

(58mg/L Ca; 3mg/L Mg; 32mg/L Na; 10mg/L SO4; 21mg/L Cl; 150mg/L HCO3)

 

[Sudz]

Hmm, I was looking at the recipe page: Kaiser Alt - German brewing and more, which shows:

Looks like we're both correct.

I'm looking at this recipe as posted under "hybrid ambers" in the forum recipes and for some reason the minerals specified for the water are different from those shown on the website you referenced. Puzzling since the article and recipe appear to be the same.

Thanks for the web reference. I've only glanced at the mineral bill for the water so I think I'll go through this to see if there are any other discrepancies. I may drop Kai a note to clarify this for myself as well as others.

Thanks....

 

[michaeltrego]

Hmm, I didn't notice that before....all of the salts on this recipe page are half of what they are on his website...

 

[NeverSober]

So after intense consideration, and completely unable to find a dopplesticke or sticke recipe I have decided to double this recipe. Ive got 14lb Munich, 4oz carafa, 1lb 8oz caramunich and 4oz spalt for fwh or 60min. I'm thinking about doing a open fermentation inside a sanitized kegerator. I have lots of Pacman yeast which I usually work with. 55ibu 28srm and 7.9abv. I would like to ferment at 60 however the warmest the kegerator runs is at 55. What do you think about this attempt at a double alt? Hate it or love it?

 

[Sudz]

Just bottled my efforts with this one. The mash schedule went as planned and hit my numbers. I made a starter with the 1007, oxygenated, and fermented at 67*F. Initial fermentation was very strong, overflowing my 1 gal water trap via my blow off hose, more so than any other ferment I've had.

Moved to secondary at 7 days, added gelatin and cold crashed at 14 days... but failed to check my gravity!! I know, I was warned by Kaiser... dumb, dumb, dumb. Caught up in my own bad habit.

Anyway at about day 21 the brew is crystal clear and I go to bottle... surprise... FG of 1.022! Ouch!!!

Backed out of bottling, added a small amount of Nottingham and returned to 67*F. A week later I'm at 1.009 and holding so I go ahead and bottle. The only downside is this stuff looks like muddy water but I believe it will settle out during conditioning. Does taste great for a green beer I might add.

Why am I exposing my dirty laundry one might ask?

The 1007 apparently does finish slower than most ale yeast I've used so when Kaiser tells you to verify the fermentation completion.. he ain't kiddin'.

Lesson learned....

 

[fxdrider]

So after intense consideration, and completely unable to find a dopplesticke or sticke recipe I have decided to double this recipe.

I had the same thought recently, but instead of doubling the amounts, I was going to try a 50% increase and see how that went. Have you tried your recipe yet? I'd be interested in hearing how yours turns out.

 

[helgibelgi]

I just brewed this. 3 weeks or so since bottling. I really like this beer, it's like nothing else I have ever tasted. Maybe that's because I'm very new to homebrewing. It tastes kind of fruity, malty but more to the dry side than sweet (sometimes a little syropy-like flavor). The hops are very nice balanced (I used Saaz). Very little head. Looks like cognac, dark red-brownish and clear.

My fermentation temps were high though: around 20-21°C or around 68-70 fahrenheit (ambient temp). Do you think this changed alot? I read on the manufacturer's website that this yeast, 1007, shouldn't produce much off flavor even in high temps. Next time I will control the temps better.

Thank you, Kaiser, for an awesome recipe and instructions!

 

[urbanmyth]

I have a half gallon starter going for my brewday on Tuesday! Looking forward to this beer. Had a GREAT altbier at Titletown Brewery in Green Bay this past weekend.

 

[dawgmatic]

I have a half gallon starter going for my brewday on Tuesday! Looking forward to this beer. Had a GREAT altbier at Titletown Brewery in Green Bay this past weekend.

I love titletowns Alt! It's really dark for the style though

On a side note, it appears the NB now has an Alt kit that is quite similar to kaisers grain bill. Minus the carafa with some pale wheat an cararoma

http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/...-s-reverse-burster-altbier-all-grain-kit.html

 

[urbanmyth]

I love titletowns Alt! It's really dark for the style though

I think they have some of the most solid brews I have had. Have not been disappointed yet. I'm not one for IPAs, either, but their Hopasaurus Rex is fantastic.

As for my version of Kaiser Alt, I was pressed for time, so I did a no sparge 3 gallon batch. I over compensated for the loss in efficiency by upping the base malt a bit...ended up at 1.060 OG. I still got good attenuation, it was down to 1.009 last I checked a couple days ago. Not too sure what to call it now.

 

[wickman6]

I have brewed variations of this recipe before with good results. Yesterday I went at it again, this time by the book. Built up a starter of 1007, and followed the mash schedule as closely as possible. Nailed my OG of 1.046.

It's fermenting away at 67 deg. Can't wait to crack open the first one maybe 2 months from now!

Thanks Kaiser for the recipe and for all of your shared knowledge!

 

[lockwom]

Kai,

Your original recipe includes both chalk and baking soda. I'm interested in brewing this beer as closely as I can, but instead using only pickling lime to increase alkalinity, keeping sodium levels significantly lower. This chalk approach generally follows the advice of Martin Brungard, and I think even derives from some of your experiments regarding solubility of chalk.

Do you stand by that water profile, including the high levels of sodium? Or would you change anything?

I'm leaning toward an "Amber Malty" profile like Brunwater, when comparing your previous chloride and sulfate levels.

55 ppm Ca, 5 ppm Mg, 10 ppm Na, 55 ppm SO4, 65 ppm Cl, enough bicarbonate to reach a reasonable mash pH. You recommend a slightly higher mash pH (5.5-5.6) given the decoction mashout, correct? Or since this is a double-infused decoction, 5.4 would be reasonable? This differs significantly from your recipe, so I'd appreciate any feedback.

I didn't want to PM you in case other people were wondering the same things.

 

[wickman6]

Just kegged my latest batch of this last night. It was pretty clear, but not as much as I'd like. I think a week in the keg should take care of that.

Smelled and tasted awesome! Can't wait till its carbed up.

Thanks again Kaiser!