Just tasted my first two kegged beers - baaad... what the heck happened??

[Rev2010]

I have a Pumpkin Ale and Belgian Saison that I kegged two weeks ago set and forget method. The pumpkin was at 12 psi and the Saison at 13 psi. Sanitized my lines first, ran a bit of beer through to flush the remanining sanitizer and bottom yeast/trub till it poured nicely. Both beers have a very noticeable metallic soapy taste. I've tried running more and it's still there. I have no idea what happened and I've never had this with bottling. I'm really quite upset at the moment. I planned to have a beer tasting with a good number of friends and family next weekend and now I'm going to have to cancel as I just can't serve up these nasty tasting beers. My CO2 was bought from a place that specializes in selling only gases and this was supposed to be beverage quality CO2, so not sure if it's the CO2 as I'm seen some say the quality can vary.

My kegs were all cleaned first, rinsed a ridiculous amount of times as I was being uber safe to make sure they were fully rinsed out. I sanitized the kegs thoroughly before racking my beers into them. I cleaned my brand new Perlick faucets, rinsed them, and sanitized them. I have no idea why these beers both have this horrendously nasty taste.

Going to go smoke a cigar outside and try to fight back the urge to cry. Yeah, sounds lame I know... but I was really looking forward to the beer tasting party. Any advice on what might be the cause would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

*Edit - just want to add that neither of the beers had any sign of this off taste when I checked the FG and tasted the sample right before kegging.


Rev.

 

[Yooper]

Open the keg and take out a sample, and see if it's the beer in the keg that tastes bad, or the beer coming out of the lines. That will narrow down the cause.

 

[Rev2010]

Just took a sample straight from the keg with a sanitized turkey baster. Same taste. I didn't figure it would be the lines though being beer passes through it a bit too quickly to gain such a noticeable taste. I didn't have the liquid line connected while carbonating so no beer sat in the lines, I only connected it today after sanitizing the lines first.


Rev.

 

[The_Bishop]

Source of the kegs? Used? New? How'd you clean them?

 

[Rev2010]

Brand new made in Italy homebrew kegs. Cleaned them with Oxyclean free and rinsed them very well, like 4 times. Sanitized them with StarSan. Sanitized the lines same day I cleaned the kegs just to test my new system, then sanitized them again today before connecting the liquid out disconnects. Both beers have exactly the same metallic soapy taste when they didn't exhibit those tastes when I tasted the FG sample before kegging. Only thing I can think of is the CO2, but I can't see why that would be creating this bad taste, people use CO2 all the time without this issue so I'm dumbfounded at the moment.

These were the kegs I bought: http://www.cornykeg.com/catalog.asp?prodid=685589&showprevnext=1


Rev.

 

[Tutsbrew]

I'll be watching this thread as I experienced very nearly the same...

 

[j1n]

I doubt its the new kegs. i have a few AEB Italian kegs (rubber top) and are prob the best corny kegs you can get.

I had issues with bad taste in the beer from my beer lines but it was only from the beer that sat in the line. if i purged the little bit of beer in the line first then poured a glass, i wouldn't taste the off flavor. I replaced with Accuflex Bev-Seal Ultra Barrier Tubing from birdman brewing.

 

[Rev2010]

I doubt it's the kegs as well. So far I think it's either the CO2 or the beers just need more time. When bottling my beers would sit for three weeks before going into the fridge for several days. The problem I have with the "needs more time" concept is many here keg then serve after two weeks with no issues. That and well... the beer is in the kegerator at 37 degrees so how much can it really age in there anyway? I'm going to stop messing with it for now unless someone has some info to test this further and check back in one week to see if there is any change.


Rev.

 

[dnslater]

Since you have ruled out the kegs and the lines, it is either the gas, or you had a problem from the start before kegging. If you have an extra keg you could try to carbonate some water to see how it tastes. Good luck. I feel for you.

 

[Rev2010]

Yeah I was planning on trying to carb up some water to see if the taste is still there. Will probably burst carb it by setting it to 30psi for 24 hours or so then set to regular pressure for a few days. Will try that tomorrow.


Rev.

 

[dnslater]

Yeah I was planning on trying to carb up some water to see if the taste is still there. Will probably burst carb it by setting it to 30psi for 24 hours or so then set to regular pressure for a few days. Will try that tomorrow.


Rev.

After the 24 hours just give it a good shake and taste it. No worry about foam with water.

 

[j1n]

Check the co2 lines too.

 

[day_trippr]

Check the co2 lines too.

For what?

Cheers!

 

[j1n]

For what?

Cheers!

To see if he got beer backed up into there cause it would go bad and contaminate the co2.

 

[tsever00]

Metallic taste for me has always been over carbonation. I would pour a beer, stir the heck out of it to release some carbonation, and give it another taste. Letting it warm up a bit will also release some carbonation. Just something to try to narrow down the problem.

 

[CA_Mouse]

I've had oxyclean leave a very soapy taste in glasses and plastic. Stopped using it and only use PBW now.

 

[SandstoneCityBrew]

From John Palmers How to Brew, in the section describing off flavors :

"Metallic flavors are usually caused by unprotected metals dissolving into the wort but can also be caused by the hydrolysis of lipids in poorly stored malts. Iron and aluminum can cause metallic flavors leaching into the wort during the boil. The small amount could be considered to be nutritional if it weren't for the bad taste. Nicks and cracks ceramic coated steel pots are a common cause as are high iron levels in well water. Stainless steel pots will not contribute any metallic flavors. Aluminum pots usually won't cause metallic flavors unless the brewing water is alkaline with a pH level greater than 9. Shiny new aluminum pots will sometimes turn black when boiling water due to chlorine and carbonates in the water."

"Soapy flavors can caused by not washing your glass very well, but they can also be produced by the fermentation conditions. If you leave the beer in the primary fermentor for a relatively long period of time after primary fermentation is over ("long" depends on the style and other fermentation factors), soapy flavors can result from the breakdown of fatty acids in the trub. Soap is, by definition, the salt of a fatty acid; so you are literally tasting soap."

 

[Rev2010]

To address some of the follow up comments:

1. Been using Oxyclean free for years with no problems at all. I also use it to clean my kettle and mash tun. I rinse very very well, a little OCD'ish actually and I never leave the surface of the cleaned item feeling slick or still soapy. With my brand new kegs after cleaning them and rinsing them many times I also filled them with sanitizer and pumped it out through the lines with CO2. So even if any Oxyclean residue was still somewhere like in the diptube I'd imagine 2.5 gallons of sanitizer should've flushed it out.

2. I didn't have the liquid lines connected while carbonating and I didn't burst carb, just set and forget. Shouldn't really have had any beer back into the CO2 lines and I don't see any sign of beer in there with a flashlight against the blue tubing.

3. The grains were fresh from NothernBrewer, uncrushed as I crush my own, and stored as always in my refrigerator.

4. My kettle is stainless steel (Blichmann) and my sparge water kettle is a stainless steel Megapot 1.2. I don't use any aluminum.

5. Both beers were brewed one week apart. The pumpkin was in primary for 3 weeks.

6. I did the warm up beer and stir test, taste was still there but maybe a little less prominent.

7. Lastly, all my glasses are clean and free of any soapy residue. I've tried more than one as well.

I'm stumped. I've also just now noticed, since I tried a small taste this morning, the taste comes up noticeably with a burp (CO2). Only thing I can think of is it's something with the CO2 or brand new kegs. This taste is in both beers, both have the taste of the beer underneath this prominent taste. I didn't notice any such taste when drinking the hydrometer FG sample, and I've been brewing and bottling for coming up to 4 years now without experiencing this.


Rev.

 

[Rev2010]

Oh, one additional bit of information. Since I was using the kegerator as a fermentation chamber for my pumpkin ale the temp of the CO2 was at 63 degrees or so when I kegged the beers and purged/pressurized them. From their the kegs went into the kegerator and I set the temp to 36 degrees. Could keeping the gas lines hooked up with the temp going from warm to cold have had some affect on the CO2 in the kegs?


Rev.

 

[j1n]

Did you try carbing some water and seeing if its the co2? i would do it with an older keg and one of the new ones and compare. That way you can narrow it down to the co2 or keg if its either of those causing the issue.

 

[Rev2010]

Did you try carbing some water and seeing if its the co2? i would do it with an older keg and one of the new ones and compare. That way you can narrow it down to the co2 or keg if its either of those causing the issue.

I only have three brand new AEB kegs. I just now washed and rinsed and filled my third, never been used, keg with cold water and applied 30psi, disconnected, shook it up, reconnected and repressurized and did that once more. Sitting in there now on 30psi. I'll have to report back tomorrow night after I get home from work.


Rev.

 

[Rev2010]

**UPDATE**

Tasted the water when I got home, it's carbonated though not as carbonated as the beer obviously but there is no off taste to it, tastes like typical soda water really. But, more importantly I tasted both beers and to my surprise in my pumpkin ale the off taste has gone down by 50 or more percent! The Belgian Saison also exhibits a bit less of the taste with more of the beer taste coming through but it's still a bit strong, maybe say the taste has dropped 20 percent. However, the Belgian Saison was one week younger than the pumpkin, I rushed it honestly. Well, the fermentation was aggressive and it finished so I kegged after only two weeks, usually I wait one extra week in the fermenter after the krausen has dropped and the surface is clear before bottling in the past. Since I had a party coming and fermentation appeared done and I had a 1.005 FG I figured it would be ready.

Looking back I'm now thinking the beers just need to condition in the kegs a little longer. I'd thought 2 weeks cold conditioning would basically replace my bottling regimen which was 3 weeks in the bottle and a few days in the fridge, guess I was wrong? I was partly steered to that thought process seeing many on here simply keg when they hit FG and drink after two weeks set and forget carbing. Maybe my beers just need longer?

Well, I can breathe a sigh of relief. I'll report back when I take another sample this weekend.

Rev.

 

[bemerritt]

**UPDATE**

Tasted the water when I got home, it's carbonated though not as carbonated as the beer obviously but there is no off taste to it, tastes like typical soda water really. But, more importantly I tasted both beers and to my surprise in my pumpkin ale the off taste has gone down by 50 or more percent! The Belgian Saison also exhibits a bit less of the taste with more of the beer taste coming through but it's still a bit strong, maybe say the taste has dropped 20 percent. However, the Belgian Saison was one week younger than the pumpkin, I rushed it honestly. Well, the fermentation was aggressive and it finished so I kegged after only two weeks, usually I wait one extra week in the fermenter after the krausen has dropped and the surface is clear before bottling in the past. Since I had a party coming and fermentation appeared done and I had a 1.005 FG I figured it would be ready.

Looking back I'm now thinking the beers just need to condition in the kegs a little longer. I'd thought 2 weeks cold conditioning would basically replace my bottling regimen which was 3 weeks in the bottle and a few days in the fridge, guess I was wrong? I was partly steered to that thought process seeing many on here simply keg when they hit FG and drink after two weeks set and forget carbing. Maybe my beers just need longer?

Well, I can breathe a sigh of relief. I'll report back when I take another sample this weekend.

Rev.

Pretty sure beers will age slower in teh colder conditions. So while you will get carbed up faster than bottles, the flavor will take a little longer to be identical.

 

[dnslater]

Good news. Thanks for the update. I have had a metallic taste at bottling once or twice, and had the beer turn out fine after conditioning. Perhaps since your kegging, the beer is more green than you are used to tasting? I just kegged my first beer as well, a hoppy Pale. I always do a 4 week primary and bottle condition for 3 weeks. Now I am drinking after 4-5 weeks, so it definitely tastes different early.

 

[Howhownow]

Perhaps there was some production residue left in the bev side dip tubes that didn't get scrubbed out in cleaning? That is a pretty thin theory, though, and doesn't explain the water test.
I have had many beers taste 'green' right after kegging... but never metallic. 3 weeks is usually the peak of flavor for my kegged beers.

 

[Rev2010]

Pretty sure beers will age slower in teh colder conditions. So while you will get carbed up faster than bottles, the flavor will take a little longer to be identical.

Yeah that's what I was thinking too. This weekend will mark three weeks in the kegerator under CO2, so I'll check the taste again and see how it is. I'm hoping it doesn't take too much longer as I was really looking forward to kegging at least shaving off a little bit of the wait time. If it takes something like 2 more weeks (4 total) I think I'll switch to priming in the keg and letting it condition at room temp for 3 weeks.


Rev.

 

[bemerritt]

Yeah, depends what you have in the keg. I'll drink an IPA 4 weeks after brewing. For a pumpkin, I'll wait closer to 8-10 weeks. It's now become a ritual to brew the pumpkin ale on Labor Day to have it ready for Halloween.

 

[rekoob]

whoo.. it seems I was all worried at the start of this thread for nothing... I hope.

I agree that a kegged beer does take a while to really condition, of course some beers are faster than others in really coming together.
I almost always start pulling a pint to early, either cuz I can't wait to try it or I have an open tap that needs to be hooked up.
Regardless I would say it's like a month for it to mellow and condition to the point you give it a gulp and say.... Nice.
The trick is to keep enough in the keg to make that time frame work for you not against you.

You said you have them set at different pressures? so you are running different regulators off the same tank? I guess to secondary regulators?

I'm just trying to understand why both kegs would have the same flavor profile that isn't supposed to be there for either one.

 

[kornkob]

. I didn't notice any such taste when drinking the hydrometer FG sample.

Forgive me if this has been addressed already.

The quote above makes me think about the difference here. When I sample the tester, I often don't get much of the smell, since I'm drinking out of a tall narrow vessel.

Is it possible that this off taste is being caused by a smell? Have you tried tasting it with you nose plugged?

 

[kornkob]

Double post

 

[andrewmaixner]

...
Regardless I would say it's like a month for it to mellow and condition to the point you give it a gulp and say.... Nice.
The trick is to keep enough in the keg to make that time frame work for you not against you.

Yes, I'm new at this but have already noticed that for my beers that are over the 5% ABV range, 2-3 weeks seems not enough for reasonable flavor development, and they are better at 5-6 weeks (I age at 68F after SG stops dropping). This might be less important if you have high-quality temperature controls for fermentation.

So buy a couple more carboys (or more kegs if you have the cash), and have a longer queue of beers mellowing out before putting them on tab. Sure it takes a few more weeks for a specific batch to be on tap, but the quality will be higher at tapping instead of having it improve more slowly in the fridge while you are drinking it.

 

[Rev2010]

You said you have them set at different pressures? so you are running different regulators off the same tank? I guess to secondary regulators?

I have a dual gauge primary regulator and three product Taprite secondary regulator so I can control the pressures of three individual kegs.

@Kornbob - tried that on Saturday, it's in the taste and smell, so no it's not just a smell influenced thing.

As mentioned I'll pull another sample Saturday and report back.


Rev.

 

[cannman]

I did the skim read on the topic...

Was real pumpkin used in this boil?

When was it added?

If it didn't come from a can, fruits are generally sterile unless the hull has been breached by another organism or injury. Fresh fruit can become contaminated from the moment the brewers cuts into it with an unsanitized knife. Then possibly when laid on an unsanitized cutting board, exposure to air etc.

Therefor if the fruit was added to the boil late, it is possible for a number of organisms to have survived to fermentation...

I understand this might be a fat chance, but as an avid preserver of all things yum, I choose to freeze my pumpkin instead of canning it due to infection risks with this fruit.

I don't know why your non-pumpkin beer showed similar fates...

For what it's worth...

 

[rekoob]

I did the skim read on the topic...

Was real pumpkin used in this boil?

When was it added?

If it didn't come from a can, fruits are generally sterile unless the hull has been breached by another organism or injury. Fresh fruit can become contaminated from the moment the brewers cuts into it with an unsanitized knife. Then possibly when laid on an unsanitized cutting board, exposure to air etc.

Therefor if the fruit was added to the boil late, it is possible for a number of organisms to have survived to fermentation...

I understand this might be a fat chance, but as an avid preserver of all things yum, I choose to freeze my pumpkin instead of canning it due to infection risks with this fruit.

I don't know why your non-pumpkin beer showed similar fates...

For what it's worth...

Good points made and also the reason I can't wrap my head around both beers having same issue.

Yes, I'm new at this but have already noticed that for my beers that are over the 5% ABV range, 2-3 weeks seems not enough for reasonable flavor development, and they are better at 5-6 weeks (I age at 68F after SG stops dropping). This might be less important if you have high-quality temperature controls for fermentation.

So buy a couple more carboys (or more kegs if you have the cash), and have a longer queue of beers mellowing out before putting them on tab. Sure it takes a few more weeks for a specific batch to be on tap, but the quality will be higher at tapping instead of having it improve more slowly in the fridge while you are drinking it.

You are so right, I absolutly need more kegs. Having three taps and seven kegs is no where near enough for my liking.

 

[Rev2010]

Good points made and also the reason I can't wrap my head around both beers having same issue.

It definitely has zero to do with the pumpkin. I use puree and the same brand (Libby's) for over 7 batches now and never has there been anything like this. I use it in the mash btw.

Nah, this is now seeming like I am just that new to kegging that I was completely oblivious that the beer still needs a conditioning period just as bottling does. For bottling I always figured the main bulk of the time was waiting for the yeast to eat the priming sugar and for the CO2 to absorb into the beer. I always did notice that a bit more time in the fridge also made for better tasting beer, but since there is no priming sugar when force carbing and being it was two weeks at 37 degrees I figured that would be equivalent to two weeks in the fridge for bottle carbed beer. Apparently I was quite wrong, at least that's how it's appearing. I'll need a little more time to do tastes and report back. But I was wow'd last night at the change just from this weekend. Sometimes I really wish I could know just what the F is going on inside beer and how things can change so much in a week or two if let sit LOL.

So again, I'll taste again this weekend and report back. No need wasting anymore beer until then, but I think the issue was just that simple - needs more time to condition. My only curiosity now is will it condition under the cold temps in just as much time as it takes for bottle priming to carbonate and condition? So far the signs look promising, just won't know until given more time and testing.


Rev.

 

[2Kegger]

It sounds like you are very detailed in your cleaning process, but I had an issue once with my auto siphon. I always run sanitizer through it like everything else, but i got some off flavors once and took a closer look. the portion of the hose that attached to the siphon needed replacement. I just got a new hose and all was good with the next batch. That wouldn't explain the metallic flavor, but...

Also, as a side note, I saw someone posted about the CO2 adding metallic flavor. That's true. I tried kegging a red wine I made. It tasted awful on CO2. It had a distinctive metal flavor. I dumped the carbonation and bottled it, and it tasted great.

I have 5 kegs in my keezer and they all work great. Some I bought used, some new (made in India). I usually condition in the carboys and transfer to the kegs when they are ready to serve.

Good luck!

 

[landonw32]

double post

 

[landonw32]

Did you purge the dip tubes after you cleaned and rinsed? Sometimes liquid will stay in due to suction so you have to press the poppet valve to drop the liquid out. It is possible some stayed in until you kegged and mixed with the beer.

 

[Rev2010]

Did you purge the dip tubes after you cleaned and rinsed? Sometimes liquid will stay in due to suction so you have to press the poppet valve to drop the liquid out. It is possible some stayed in until you kegged and mixed with the beer.

No, but I pushed 2.5 gallons of sanitizer through both kegs/lines right afterward.


Rev.

 

[squash1978]

**UPDATE**

Tasted the water when I got home, it's carbonated though not as carbonated as the beer obviously but there is no off taste to it, tastes like typical soda water really. But, more importantly I tasted both beers and to my surprise in my pumpkin ale the off taste has gone down by 50 or more percent! The Belgian Saison also exhibits a bit less of the taste with more of the beer taste coming through but it's still a bit strong, maybe say the taste has dropped 20 percent. However, the Belgian Saison was one week younger than the pumpkin, I rushed it honestly. Well, the fermentation was aggressive and it finished so I kegged after only two weeks, usually I wait one extra week in the fermenter after the krausen has dropped and the surface is clear before bottling in the past. Since I had a party coming and fermentation appeared done and I had a 1.005 FG I figured it would be ready.

Looking back I'm now thinking the beers just need to condition in the kegs a little longer. I'd thought 2 weeks cold conditioning would basically replace my bottling regimen which was 3 weeks in the bottle and a few days in the fridge, guess I was wrong? I was partly steered to that thought process seeing many on here simply keg when they hit FG and drink after two weeks set and forget carbing. Maybe my beers just need longer?

Well, I can breathe a sigh of relief. I'll report back when I take another sample this weekend.

Rev.

Almost every beer that I've kegged never really tastes all that great without some conditioning. After 1 week it tastes terrible. After 2 weeks it tastes noticeably better but still off. After 3 weeks it tastes great. When I first started kegging I tried burst carbing it so that it would be carbonated within a week. I've since learned that my beers need some time in the keg and just use the set it and forget it method and just wait.

I'd be willing to bet both of your beers will turn out fine with a little more time--especially since you've noticed an improvement already.