Jungle Cider

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Rhu

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New to any form of brewing but have decided to start with a cider.

English, but living in Mexico - "proper" cider is pretty difficult to come by (Strongbow is not proper cider!!)

It's not easy as am living on a Marine research station in the middle of the jungle, on the beach, with not a lot in the way of power. Have managed to get some started, by getting people to bring me stuff out from the UK and smuggle it through customs..I think infection is going to be my biggest worry as there is a LOT of damp and fungus floating about.

Got the guys on the weekly shopping run to pick me up 7 gallons of 'Organic' cider and a bushel of mixed Gala/Granny smith type apples (all that was available)...

Using a blender, food mill and old t-shirts managed to get about 2.5 gallons of juice out of the apples. Have made Airlocks out of old peanut butter jars and some O2 mask tubing that we had lying about all sealed with Super glue and Marine silicon, filled with medical alcohol...not pretty, but functional.

The s/g of the organic juice was 1.077, adding the pressed juice brought the s/g down and I added about 1 kg of "piloncillo" (which as far as I can make out is a Mexican raw cane sugar block)...this resulted in a combined juice with a s/g of 1.066.

Split the mixture between two 20ltr plastic water bottles which look identical to the "better bottles" in the photo at the start of the Ed's Apfelwein post. Added 1x 5ml spoonful of Sodium metabisulphate to each 5 gallons (my calculations lead me to believe this is equivalent to 2 Campden tablets per gallon as the juice was fairly insipid in taste (I don't have a way to measure the pH)). The juice was really dark brown at this point...like really dark. I'm not sure if this is normal or if I took too long getting it all pressed and mixed up.

Left the juice overnight and saw no evidence of fermentation, was kinda happy that there was no immediate infection, but I was a bit worried that the 'organic' cider was less than organic even though there were no preservatives listed and that the juice had turned brown in the bottle after opening (I figured this meant it probably didn't have any preservatives in)..

I added Pectinase to one bottle the following morning and DAP to both about 6 hours later. I added 1 tspoon pectinase per gallon and just less than 2 tspoons of DAP to each. I'd read it was possible to end up with Ammonium flavours/odours if you added too much DAP so erred a little under what it said on the tub...

About 6 hours after that I added 5g of E-118 Champagne yeast to both bottles. Homemade airlocks on and then into the coolest area I can find (about 21C = 69F in the middle of the day) We're in the middle of a cold snap here..I hope it continues and doesn't get much hotter.

The following morning (about 12 hours later) and there is a slight amount of bubbles around the edge of the bottle but not much else, no bubbling from Airlock. about 4 hours after that and it's starting to go a bit crazy...I've got nearly an inch of foam on the top, bright white around the edges and brown on top.

Interestingly the bottle with no pectinase has a much paler brown foam than the juice with the pectinase. Is this normal?

As I write this fermentation is increasing I'm upto just under one bubble a second in both airlocks.

The plan is to make one clear, sparkling cider and one cloudy, still cider, they're hopefully both going to be dry as sweet cider isn't my favourite, also I have no refrigeration so cold crashing isn't going to be an option......fingers crossed...if anybody reads this and spots a glaring error please let me know..

I'll let you know how it turns out, hopefully it won't explode into a giant cloud of drunk mosquitos at some point...
 
You marines are tough, you are supposed to wash the Tshirts before you use them as strainers! WVMJ
 
hahaha...Am not a Marine. Am researching Marine environment, science stuff...

And the T-shirts were washed, Rinsed in drinking water, sterilized with BruSan and boiled for an hour...Although I'm still not sure that got rid of 4 years of accumulated beach living..

I'm pretty paranoid about getting this brew infected with anything other than yeast...I'm seriously missing the taste of English draught cider after 5 years away...
 
hahaha...Am not a Marine. Am researching Marine environment, science stuff...

And the T-shirts were washed, Rinsed in drinking water, sterilized with BruSan and boiled for an hour...Although I'm still not sure that got rid of 4 years of accumulated beach living..

I'm pretty paranoid about getting this brew infected with anything other than yeast...I'm seriously missing the taste of English draught cider after 5 years away...

Where are the pictures of your Gilligan's Island style setup professor?? :fro:
 
Ok here are the photos...

I'm a bit worried to be honest, everything I've read said that cider shouldn't have Krausen? But I definitely do..

Is this infected, do I need to bin it?

Anyway, first photo is the homemade airlock and the cider without pectinase, it's going mental to be honest, loads of turbulence..the second is the cider with pectinase, it also has a lot of turbulence, but a much calmer foam on the top.

The third photo shows a comparison between the two...

#'s four and five are my beautiful house on the expedition base and the view from my front door this morning.....

I'm a bit worried, the foam just 'farted' up the airlock tube (homemade) I was thinking (if I don't just need to bin the whole lot right now!) that I would just wait until it calmed down and then swap the airlock for a clean one...it shouldn't really matter if the foam bubbles all of the way through the airlock should it? it still won't contact the air?

any and all help and advice gratefully received....

homemadeairlock.jpg


darkfoam.jpg


foamcomparison.jpg


home.jpg


frontdoor.jpg
 
oh, and phots were taken approx 36 hrs after pitching the yeast. Temperature has not got much above 70 all day and was waaaayyy lower last night when most of the activity happenned
 
Wait it out. Don't throw anything away
ok, I won't..It's steadily climbing towards the top though..If it does start to climb out do I just keep waiting and then replace the airlock when it starts to subside?

Also, I'm assuming the brown stuff is yeast. Will it stick all over the top of the bottle and then die/go bad when fermentation calms down? Should I 'swoosh' the cider round inside to wash it back into the liquid?
 
So are you looking for any beach-brewing interns? We could totally market your jungle cider and start exporting it ;)

Foam coming up through the tube and into the PB jar should be fine as long as the tube stays submerged.
 
ok, I won't..It's steadily climbing towards the top though..If it does start to climb out do I just keep waiting and then replace the airlock when it starts to subside?

Also, I'm assuming the brown stuff is yeast. Will it stick all over the top of the bottle and then die/go bad when fermentation calms down? Should I 'swoosh' the cider round inside to wash it back into the liquid?

way for us to post at the same moment practically.

a) You can clean out the PB jar airlock with cleaner water when it simmers down. No worries.

b) When it calms down and is no longer foaming, carefully siphon it to a new jug if you can. If you have any more cider/juice top it up to near the neck. Then just wait for it to stop bubbling in the jug and then bottle 'er up. I don't know what degree of clarity you're looking for, but the longer you wait the clearer it'll be.

c) no need for crazy swirl action, plenty of yeasties in the liquid.
 
Alright then,

I was planning on having one clear, one not clear...I'm expecting to leave it at least 2 months before I drink it..

I'm unsure about the idea of secondary, for one I'm paranoid about oxidising the cider...I have a siphon with a tap on the end but don't want to wreck it. How much air can it stand to be in contact with?

If I rack it to secondary-ish to get it away from the foamy yeast, should I suck up a bit of the stuff that's on the bottom to keep it going?

The other thing is that there are a lot of airborne moulds and fungus' buzzing around down here and if I can limit the contact it has with them then all to the good.

From reading Ed's apfelwine it shouldn't matter if it stands on the lees too long should it?

I'm more concerned about the yeast that's outside the cider going all funky and poisoning it..

And I'm not sure how economic it would be..It cost me the best part of $120US for apples and juice!!
 
Alright then,

I was planning on having one clear, one not clear...I'm expecting to leave it at least 2 months before I drink it..

I'm unsure about the idea of secondary, for one I'm paranoid about oxidising the cider...I have a siphon with a tap on the end but don't want to wreck it. How much air can it stand to be in contact with?

If I rack it to secondary-ish to get it away from the foamy yeast, should I suck up a bit of the stuff that's on the bottom to keep it going?

The other thing is that there are a lot of airborne moulds and fungus' buzzing around down here and if I can limit the contact it has with them then all to the good.

From reading Ed's apfelwine it shouldn't matter if it stands on the lees too long should it?

I'm more concerned about the yeast that's outside the cider going all funky and poisoning it..

And I'm not sure how economic it would be..It cost me the best part of $120US for apples and juice!!

a) I prime the tube by filling it with juice/water and just dunk one end in the primary and then the other end down in the secondary. Minimal contamination. Also... it's crazy beach cider not a french merlot :) I'd be more concerned about the fermentation temperature than oxygen contact during racking.

b) Try to minimize the amount you suck up from the bottom, but it won't hurt anything flavor (flavour?) wise. You might have an inch in the primary, but you'll have a dusting in the secondary. If you want to just leave it in the primary it won't hurt anything no. Just makes for a clearer cider end.

c) Ok I'm a high school science teacher, so I'd love to comment to my kids about knowing someone doing real science... what exactly do you study at your marine research station? :)
 
We're the data collection end of various organisations studying the health and diversity of the Coral and Fish species on the Meso-American Barrier Reef, or other comparable ecosystems worldwide. I'm a Marine Biologist and Scuba instructor and also the base chief..not a bad job really, driving speedboats and Scuba diving the Caribbean most days.

We take volunteers and teach them to collect data. The data is analysed by the NGO in charge of the Reserve we're in and the Mexican government agency in charge of running Reserves, also pretty much anybody that wants to do thesis/degree/doctorate level research can apply to get their hands on it. Can actually get college credit in the US for coming out here, volunteering and learning how to do it because we teach ID and monitoring methods to Phd research quality (it's not cheap though).

anyway, important things...the cider isn't going to be harmed by a bit of splashing around in the secondary bottle as long as I keep it to a minimum and get the tap under the juice as quick as possible then?

Should I wait until the majority of the lumps have fallen out of solution before racking to secondary, there are some big old chunks flying around at the moment, it's pretty turbulent in there. temps upto 23c/73F today..or just rack it as soon as the foam stats to subside?

Thanks for all this by the way...
 
hmm...don't have any more juice unfortunately..I could try and get some..it's pretty important to top up the secondary right? It will start fermenting again though right..I'm hoping for something pretty dry.
 
Best... job... EVER.

As long as you keep the sloshing about to a minimum it'll be fine, esp if there's still a small amount of fermentation going on. The yeast will use any oxygen up right quick as long as it's not like spash-racked.

Decidedly wait until you can't see stuff floating up then falling with crazy fermentation. Wait until you just see tiny bubbles going up. :)
 
hmm...don't have any more juice unfortunately..I could try and get some..it's pretty important to top up the secondary right? It will start fermenting again though right..I'm hoping for something pretty dry.

yes, as long as it's still fermenting in the secondary, it'll make a blanket of CO2 and you'll be in pertty good shape.
 
how much space should I leave in the secondary? It's unlikely to go crazy again like this one, is it?

Anyway..getting fairly far ahead of myself, it's only on the 40hr mark..

It's not a bad job at all, saw a whale the other day for the first time..that was pretty special.
 
No, when you rack to the secondary it'll generally start back up again, but nowhere near like what it's doing now.

Less headspace means less air the CO2 from the fermentation has to force out to make a low oxygen blanket.
 
What an amazing place you're in! I'm jealous.


It is an amazing place, super beautiful...buuutttt...it's not all beer and skittles..

Mosquitos are hell, the other side of the beach is the Mangroves, mosquito heaven and they've got Dengue fever..

The humidity is incredible, you can't leave anything outside (and by outside I mean not in a box filled with dessicant)for longer than a week without it developing mould..clothes, even candles go mouldy...

The whole place is open to the elements..if it's hot you're hot, if it's raining you're wet.

It's over two hours down the worst road in the world to get to a town..

We rely on Solar power for energy, but there's no power in any of the accommodation, not even lights..only got power in the main building. If it's as rainy and grey as it has been recently even the power in main building is off by 1930..

THE SAND!!!! it's everywhere... in your clothes, your hair, your food, everything has sand in it.....

And there's no Cider...although that should change in a couple of months hopefully......
 
Um, it is an amazing place to live/work though..I'm just Northern and therefore not happy unless I'm complaining....
 
Ok, you just one of those whinging science boys on the beach, hope you Tshirt didnt smell like chum, thats hard to get out of a cider :) Do you guys have like glass tubing you could heat on a bunsen and bend around to make a nice glass airlock? You might want to plan on drinking your cider in weeks vs months since you have to make it under such unfavorable conditions. I know you English guys like a low alc cider, but if you could amp up the sugar a bit to give it more alcohol it would keep a little bit better. GOOD LUCK, WVMJ
 
um...most proper English cider...not strongbow, blackthorn etc. but something real like Old Rosie or any of the Westons ciders is usually around 7.5 in the bottle or pushing 9 on draught. That's about as strong as a cider can get without being a wine, right? I added sugar upto 1.066, if I leave it to ferment completely dry I could get as low as 0.990 or is that asking a bit much?

The calc. I have suggests that even at 0.998 it'll be pushing 9%..Everything I've read suggests I'll have to stage it for a while or it'll taste like lighter fluid..

and I was hoping the chum would act like the traditional dead rat...
 
um...most proper English cider...not strongbow, blackthorn etc. but something real like Old Rosie or any of the Westons ciders is usually around 7.5 in the bottle or pushing 9 on draught. That's about as strong as a cider can get without being a wine, right? I added sugar upto 1.066, if I leave it to ferment completely dry I could get as low as 0.990 or is that asking a bit much?

The calc. I have suggests that even at 0.998 it'll be pushing 9%..Everything I've read suggests I'll have to stage it for a while or it'll taste like lighter fluid..

and I was hoping the chum would act like the traditional dead rat...

I thought the combined juice was 1.066 to start with? The more sugar you add the longer you have to let it sit (in my opinion).

I'm not convinced you have an infection either. Don't toss anything. Keep at it.
 
Very good point, might be you can add a bit less nutrient :) If you bury your carboy partially in the sand in the shade would that keep it cooler? WVMJ
 
Hey Rhu,

I, too, have been on a quest to make "proper" English style cider outside of England and I just wanted to warn you against expecting too much from your setup. Galas and Granny Smiths are spectacularly low in tannin, the compound that gives English-style ciders like Old Rosie's their bite. Apple juice from America/Canada/Mexico is probably nothing like what goes into a scrumpy-style cider. When you taste, remember that you are making your own unique creation, and not mimicking the UK stuff. Good luck!
 
Morning all,

@Epiccider..the bottled 'organic' juice had an s/g of 1.077, I added the pressed juice (didn't take a measurement) and then syruped 1kg (2.2lbs) of piloncillo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piloncillo) and the final gravity was 1.066...having done lots more reading I think I've just got very happy yeast, it smells of delicious yeasty apple alcoholicness anyway...which brings me onto...

@WVMJ..I think I might add less nutrient in future...I added less than it said on the bottle..directions were 2tsp per gallon in a cup of warmed water. I dissolved 9 tsp in 100ml and split that between the 2 bottles. The weird thing is that it's only one bottle that's going truly crazy and farting up the airlock...the other one has a nice brown yeasty head, and just as much turbulence in the juice but the head is much more restrained...I was wondering if the pectinase I added to that bottle is keeping the foam down? (I didn't put pectinase in the crazy bottle)..and I'll aim for less chum next time soon, some of the chunks flying around in there are about shark sized..

The carboys are in the coolest place I can find...They're in my (non-functioning) bathroom in my hut under a counter top, shade all day, I wrapped a wet towel around them, but I'm not sure how much good it's doing as humidity is so high. Possibly burying them in the sand would keep them slightly cooler, but there's not many places that are in the shade for the whole day...and..um..alcohol is fairly restricted on base, so I'm trying to keep this as private as possible..Temperature at night dips below twenty it's not passed 23/24 during the day and it's supposed to get colder again over the next few days (thats a range of about 66 - 74 F).

@oljimmy...The 'organic' juice was truly disappointing, very insipid..it had a picture of what looked like a red delicious on the front and I'm guessing that's what it was primarily made of, super sweet as well..adding the pressed apples made a big difference, but still wasn't as good as some of the 'normal' juices on supermarket shelves back home, and at nearly $13US a gallon I was a bit gutted.

I know I'm not going to be making Old Rosie anytime soon...but a boy can dream right? It smells amazing currently...I read somewhere that the dark brown sugars have some unfermentable sugars in so I'm guessing putting in the piloncillo will give it a bit of sweetness. It's going to be a bit of a mutant I think. Looking forward to it nonetheless.

hmm..Jungle Mutant Cider...there's a name.
 
how much space should I leave in the secondary? It's unlikely to go crazy again like this one, is it?

Anyway..getting fairly far ahead of myself, it's only on the 40hr mark..

It's not a bad job at all, saw a whale the other day for the first time..that was pretty special.

if your worried about oxidation in secondary transfer it when there is still a little bit of activity left so it creates a nice blanket of co2. i think this is going to turn out great! good luck!
 
Morning All,

Things seem to be progressing nicely, fermentation is slowing down and I'm starting to get sediment deposit, about an inch in the calmer of the bottles and between a quarter and a half an inch in the crazy bottle. Most of the foam has disappeared from the top of both although there are still thick yeast deposits on the upper surfaces of the bottles. These seem to be receding and dropping back into the juice though.

Anyway, I've been doing lots more reading and I was wondering about racking to secondary..there seems to be no concise, definite answer to this but any and all opinions will be gratefully received.
Question#1 is: do I wait until the cider is clear, like clear clear before racking to secondary, or should I rack once clearing is underway? I don't really want to do lots of gravity readings..because of the risks of infection here. I figured that the cider will go to dry if I leave it long enough anyway, but would rather leave it in secondary rather than primary..or have I missed something somewhere.

Question #2: I've managed to get another 2 gallons of juice, if I wait until the cider is clear before racking to secondary adding the juice is going to make everything cloudy again, this will clear out right?

cheers all
 
Ok..so racked to secondary, one jug is at 1.000 the other at 0.998.

Have topped up both jugs with AJ to gravity of 1.002...I think, should both end up at 0.998 that this will leave me with 20L at 9.19% and 20L at 9.46% anybody spot a glaring error in my maths?

Both taste quite sour, although definitely like cider. Both smell amazing (better than they taste, I'm hoping this is a good sign)

In other news, weather continues cold, spotted three Bull shark fins about 5m off the beach this morning whilst cleaning teeth....
 
Cool! Keep us posted on how it tastes. The sourness will normally mellow with time for various reasons. I've found that 2 months of aging is enough to start tasting, but as I understand it, if you've sanitized properly there is almost no limit to how long you can age it.
 
They are both bubbling away merrily, although much more restrained than last time...only thing is though, that although I swear I was super carefull, and still had an inch of sediment in each bottle after I'd siphoned (even left half an inch of cider on top just to be safe!!)...

I now have at least half an inch of of sediment in the bottom of both bottles already...

I forsee another go next week, or maybe just leave this one for a month and see what happens..any advice out there?
 
Some internet research yields the results that the organic juice I bought was maade with a blend of Golden delicious and "Criolla manzanitas" which roughly translates as "little creole apples". CAn't find anything about them in print but an image search found this photo...anybody heard of these/know anything about them?

IMG_0351.JPG


IMG_0354.jpg
 
Never heard of 'em! But if you can get your hands on one you should be able to gauge the acid and tannin levels. If they're sweet and fresh tasting, they're not cider apples. If they have any "bite" to them at all, then the juice might be in better shape. Probably not worth worrying about though... it's not like you're in an area with a lot of options, right?
 
Oh, and the sediment is from the fermentation! It's not necessarily apple gunk or pectin, it's dead yeast/other stuff. It's a sign of a healthy ferment!
 
The girlfriend (Mexican) has heard of them...she says they are super acid..if that's the case there must be bugger all in the juice because it tasted like syrup. Might be why first tasting went down like battery acid though....

They don't grow them in this area, apparently they come from somewhere up North. I'm assuming they're what we would call 'crabs'.

I do have another question though..If I take my cider out of one bottle and into another, then add more juice...presumably I'm back to primary fermentation, just in a cleaner bottle..rather than being in secondary fermentation....
 

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