"Juicy" wheat beer

[jimmyjusa]

So our local brew club is doing an open competition to do our best beers. I've only done about a dozen beers total when including split batches. My most done style is a wheat beer.
My recipe is as follows:
5lbs 2 row
5lbs white wheat
1lb munich 10L
Mashing at 152 for 60min
Hops I'll be using are belma leaf and calypso pellets.
Since I'm going for hops at the end of the boil only I'm thinking of only doing a 30minute boil, especially since this beer is a hazy style.
I was planning on using nottingham because I've used it in a few split batch blondes and liked the character, but when going to the homebrew store they didn't have any and i got s04 instead (my wife actually went out and got the ingredients since she was already running around)
I've never used s04, so I'm debating doing a split batch with another yeast. The other yeast i have on hand i haven't used before but includes: lallemand london esb, and an assortment of crossmyloof yeasts: real ale, cali common, kolsch, saison, belgian. I have a couple hefe yeasts but personally i don't think those match with the fruitier hops.
I'm leaning towards the s04 for one batch, and either the esb or kolsch yeast in the second half.
Any thoughts on yeast options? The entry date is about 6 weeks from now, and since i bottle carbonate i will have to brew this soon to give it time to condition as well as carbonate.

 

[pittbrewing]

I would try a belgian strain, probably WLP500 which is the Chimay strain I believe. Maybe fermented on the cool side so the hops aren't completely hidden.

 

[jimmyjusa]

I have a whole slew of yeast types already so I'd rather use them.
Here are the yeast specs for the majority that i have on hand: belgian, real ale, saison, kolsch, cali common, kristalweizen
https://www.crossmyloofbrew.co.uk/yeast-specs

 

[jimmyjusa]

I would try a belgian strain, probably WLP500 which is the Chimay strain I believe. Maybe fermented on the cool side so the hops aren't completely hidden.

I am concerned about the yeast character of the Belgian strain clashing a bit which makes me hesitant to try it. That's one reason why I'm not using the weizen yeast. The kolsch yeast i have doesn't look like it drops very quickly which would be fine for the wheat beer since I'm not looking for clarity. My only concern would be too much nucleation causing a gusher which i had trouble with on my third batch ever where the yeast was getting kicked up. I may have also over carbed the beer a bit adding to the issue.

 

[Miraculix]

I would do a split batch, to get to know as much yeasts as possible, and I would try two which are a bit different.

S04 is definitely a possibility, however I do not really see this one working with the wheat heavy mash. But tastes certainly differ from person to person.

The koelsch would work very well I think, but I would limit late hop additions to a minimum and just go for a moderate ibu at about 15 to 20. Best would be noble hops for this type of beer, but you certainly can try out other stuff.

I wouldn't use the Belgian cml yeast in general. Tried it once and wasn't impressed. It can get quite tart, which I didn't like. In addition, it didn't bring enough Belgian character for my liking, but maybe my room temperature was to cool for it.

I would do the above koelsch or the same with the California lager strain, keeping the hops the way I described.

The second one I would do with the US yeast and give it the full late hop and dry hop power to get it juicy.

 

[Miraculix]

I am concerned about the yeast character of the Belgian strain clashing a bit which makes me hesitant to try it. That's one reason why I'm not using the weizen yeast. The kolsch yeast i have doesn't look like it drops very quickly which would be fine for the wheat beer since I'm not looking for clarity. My only concern would be too much nucleation causing a gusher which i had trouble with on my third batch ever where the yeast was getting kicked up. I may have also over carbed the beer a bit adding to the issue.

The gusher potential remains with all of the yeasts, but especially with the lager and koelsch strains. You can cold crash before botteling and you can fine with gelatin. Both make the yeast drop out quicker and better.

And be patient.leave it in the fermenter longer to clear up and so that the yeast can settle.

Safale 04 will drop crystal clear and stick to the bottom of the bottle. Downside is that the taste does not match the style imo.

You could throw in the koelsch or California lager, let it ferment for three days and then throw in one pack of s04 in addition. This will make the yeast flocc but might introduce a bit of additional flavour. Not much though, as the main part of the fermentation should be done on day 3.

 

[jimmyjusa]

My in laws enjoy wheat beers, especially slightly flavored ones which is my goal with this one. I did just late addition calypso before and that was probably my best beer I've made but wanted to add a little more complexity. That was fermented using us05 but i don't have any on hand and didn't like my last few batches using that yeast. I have a smash using the common yeast in the fermenter right now so i could use some slurry from that. I want to make the best product i can because it's a chance to brew a pro am batch with a local brewery. Although that's exciting I'm not getting my hopes up because I've only been brewing for 6 months and most people in the club have been brewing for at least 6 years, some over 20 years.

 

[pittbrewing]

After looking on their website, I can agree with not using their belgian strain. It reads like it will be wit-like. I didn't see the saison, but I would be inclined to try that, as I think wheat beers need some help from the yeast flavor IMO. I don't know if I would enjoy a wheat beer with no yeast character, but to each their own. Good luck!

 

[jimmyjusa]

After looking on their website, I can agree with not using their belgian strain. It reads like it will be wit-like. I didn't see the saison, but I would be inclined to try that, as I think wheat beers need some help from the yeast flavor IMO. I don't know if I would enjoy a wheat beer with no yeast character, but to each their own. Good luck!

Thanks, i was thinking the citrusy ester of saison may match nicely. I know a lot of the american wheat beers i have pretty neutral yeast characters. I was also looking at the real ale instead of s04.

 

[jimmyjusa]

The gusher potential remains with all of the yeasts, but especially with the lager and koelsch strains. You can cold crash before botteling and you can fine with gelatin. Both make the yeast drop out quicker and better.

And be patient.leave it in the fermenter longer to clear up and so that the yeast can settle.

Safale 04 will drop crystal clear and stick to the bottom of the bottle. Downside is that the taste does not match the style imo.

You could throw in the koelsch or California lager, let it ferment for three days and then throw in one pack of s04 in addition. This will make the yeast flocc but might introduce a bit of additional flavour. Not much though, as the main part of the fermentation should be done on day 3.

I can't cold crash my stuff yet, no fermentation control. I can do a water bath using my boil kettle but found that keeping my water level up past my stick on thermometer it ruined it at least temporarily.

 

[Miraculix]

I can't cold crash my stuff yet, no fermentation control. I can do a water bath using my boil kettle but found that keeping my water level up past my stick on thermometer it ruined it at least temporarily.

Depending on where you live, you could just cover the fermenter with a plastic bag and put it outside to cold crash. Works here in the UK atm.

Otherwise, just fine with a bit of gelatin and let it res t for a few days.

 

[jimmyjusa]

Depending on where you live, you could just cover the fermenter with a plastic bag and put it outside to cold crash. Works here in the UK atm.

Otherwise, just fine with a bit of gelatin and let it res t for a few days.

I did do room temp gelatin on an ipa i did, seemed to help clear it up faster than just letting it sit to clear. I used a full packet vs the normal half that I've seen after cold crashing since i thought i may need more. I'm not necessarily concerned with crashing the wheat beer though because i expect it to be hazy, but i guess it would help remove any yeast bite that may be there.

 

[Miraculix]

I did do room temp gelatin on an ipa i did, seemed to help clear it up faster than just letting it sit to clear. I used a full packet vs the normal half that I've seen after cold crashing since i thought i may need more. I'm not necessarily concerned with crashing the wheat beer though because i expect it to be hazy, but i guess it would help remove any yeast bite that may be there.

Yes, the yeast bite is exactly the problem. If it is not a German Hefeweizen, I generally do not want the yeast to dominate the flavour by its presence. Especially koelsch, lager and ale type of beers suffer immensely if yeast is present to create the yeast bite, as they are so delicate in nature.

I am currently experimenting with a mixed fermentation. I started an APA with US05 and after 2 days I added S04 to enhance the flocculation. As the fermentation was already in the final phase at this point (most of the simple sugars are gone), the S04 should not contribute much flavour, but shurely does contribute its amazing flocculation abilities. I just checked it, the beer is clear after 8 days in the fermenter, which would not be the case with US05 on its own.

But the taste test has not been done yet.... but it looks surely promising.

 

[jimmyjusa]

Yes, the yeast bite is exactly the problem. If it is not a German Hefeweizen, I generally do not want the yeast to dominate the flavour by its presence. Especially koelsch, lager and ale type of beers suffer immensely if yeast is present to create the yeast bite, as they are so delicate in nature.

I am currently experimenting with a mixed fermentation. I started an APA with US05 and after 2 days I added S04 to enhance the flocculation. As the fermentation was already in the final phase at this point (most of the simple sugars are gone), the S04 should not contribute much flavour, but shurely does contribute its amazing flocculation abilities. I just checked it, the beer is clear after 8 days in the fermenter, which would not be the case with US05 on its own.

But the taste test has not been done yet.... but it looks surely promising.

That makes sense. Now i just need to figure out a brew date in the next week or so. And finalize my yeast selection for my 2 5gal batches. Right now I'm leaning towards the saison yeast for one and maybe doing a repitch of cali common since the flocculation is supposed to be pretty high on that. I'll gelatin fine the common yeast but would i fine the saison one or leave it be like i would if doing a hefe?

 

[jimmyjusa]

I'll probably do a couple ounces of belma at 5 minutes, and then a couple ounces of calypso at flameout. I've been debating throwing in some el Dorado into the mix but that package is not open yet and the other two are

 

[jimmyjusa]

Whirlfloc or no? I normally don't bother with wheat beers but if there is a reason for it I'll throw it in.

 

[LokiM4]

Whirlfloc or no? I normally don't bother with wheat beers but if there is a reason for it I'll throw it in.

You generally don’t Irish moss or whirlflock a wheat, they’re meant to be cloudy

 

[jimmyjusa]

You generally don’t Irish moss or whirlflock a wheat, they’re meant to be cloudy

That's why i normally don't worry about it but i was just asking.

 

[LokiM4]

That's why i normally don't worry about it but i was just asking.

There are some German styles (wit) that are filtered to be clear-not sure what your going for...

 

[jimmyjusa]

I ended up throwing one in when i did my batch but it is still fairly hazy, but only about 10 days old. I dry hopped last night and bottling next saturday