John Palmer kit calls for distilled water

[Dhm8484]

As the title says, I got the Palmer's Northern Brown Ale kit and it states that you should use distilled water because the malt extract already has been made. I was wondering this anyways and was going to do it anyways for my next batch but to see John Palmer say it then how do you not listen? Till now I was just using spring water. Any thought I would glad to hear.

 

[kh54s10]

Distilled water takes out the variables of what is in the water used. Especially when you go to municipal water, you don't only have to contend with varying chemistry you also have additives like chlorine or chloramine etc. All the nutrients etc are in the extract, so distilled water won't change things.

 

[h22lude]

Someone brought in two bottles into my LHBS of an extract batch he did. One bottle was done with tap water and the other bottle was done with RO water. The RO water was much better. It tasted cleaner and the beer flavor was more pronounced. Obviously tap water differs from even neighborhood to neighborhood so your water may be great but you never know unless you get it tested. RO water will be the best bet.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Agreed with kh54s10...

THAT said, if it's easier or cheaper to get spring water, go for it.

The real key is that Palmer wants you to get rid of any negative variables in your water. I.e. he doesn't want you to use what comes out of your tap, just in case what comes out of there sucks. Bottled spring water to be used as drinking water *will* have minerals, but it won't be in such concentrations as to materially change the beer. AND it won't have any of the minerals or other things that will cause off flavors.

 

[Dhm8484]

Okay cool looks like I'll go with RO or distilled water, and I have a well and my water is hard I do know that but as far what other stats it has I'm lost. At work we have a GE chemical guy and he did a water test for me for free and I'll be damned I can't find that paper haha

 

[pursuit0fhoppiness]

Is it safe to say using distilled or RO water plus some yeast nutrient late in the boil or sprinkled on after pitching is fool-proof?

 

[mabrungard]

Many 'spring' waters have significant alkalinity and mineralization. However, its mainly the alkalinity that ends up degrading an extract beer. That alkalinity pushes up the wort pH and the resulting beer pH is more likely to be higher. Elevated pH tends to make beer duller. Keeping the pH in a better range by using distilled (or RO) water with an extract brew is always a good idea.

 

[SlitheryDee]

It does make sense to use distilled water. The complete water profile of the water used to make the extract should still be present in the extract. You should probably be using distilled water with all extract kits for best results. Even if you have decent water you'd still basically be doubling up on the mineral content of the manufacturer's water.

 

[rudylyon57]

Think of extract as a condensed version of a completed mash. The only thing removed in the condensing process is pure water so all the minerals originally in the mash are still there. Distilled or RO water is best to maintain the original mash mineral profile.

 

[Revvy]

It does make sense to use distilled water. The complete water profile of the water used to make the extract should still be present in the extract. You should probably be using distilled water with all extract kits for best results. Even if you have decent water you'd still basically be doubling up on the mineral content of the manufacturer's water.

This is it in a nutshell. The maltser in essence already selected the water profile when he mashed the grain and created the wort they concentrated into extract form, so by using only RO water, then you are getting the purest version of what the beer is meant to be.

He may vary well have used tap water in making the extract, but it's HIS tap water, his minerality, his ph.

Think about the famous waters of beers we drink... Burton on Trent, for British beers for example, Highly minerally.... that's their "tap water" their common water. Or the very soft water of Cologne where the Kolsch is king... Both of those are born from the water around them.

So when brewing beers that derive so much of their essence from those waters, you don't want to cause a conflict with the water you use.

That's why usually when an allgrain brewer is trying to replicate the water, they will use the most neutral water possible, the most mineral free and PH neutral, and that's Distilled/RO water, (Or sometimes you do build some waters from your own tap water if you have gotten a water report and know what's in there,) and you add things to it to match the numbers.

Or they brew ONLY certain beers, which by having a water report and knowing what's in it, that benefit from their water profile. Maybe IPAs have a nice "Punch" with their water, but a stout might possibly taste flat (not in terms of carbonation) and one dimensional, not complex as the grainbill would warrant. So for that they might build water from RO.

So with extract kits it's really the same thing, to get the recipe CLOSEST to what the brewers created you want to use it too.

BUT, will it ruin your beer if you use tap, or mineral water? NOT ONE BIT.... Most new brewers use tap water in their batches... and the beer is fine...

A HUGE amount of Allgrain brewers don't sweat the water issues, and many, like me use tap water (I live in Michigan which except for Flint,) has some of the best water in the country, especially in the Detroit area- we pull our water from the Great Lakes. Our water is fine to drink and if it's fine to drink it's fine to brew with. All I treat (unless I forget) is for chlorine.

I don't play around with water chemistry for 98% of my batches- it's only if I'm trying to replicate a specific beer, like a Burton Pale Ale... then I'll play around from an R.O. base water.

But honestly, I believe that most of the time we won't notice the difference between a tap water beer or a distilled water batch.... for most styles. I brew with a lot of highly ranked Bjcp judges, and most of them can't even distinguish that- only one of my friends can tell when I don't campden my water, but since we're all in Detroit, we are all used to the same water.

Now in terms of extract, will it hurt your beer to use tap water? (and I'm not talking about during boil advisories) NO. But will it matter for MOST of the batches... probably not.. BUT for certain styles using neutral water will put you closest to what the beer was when the brewer created the recipe.... Will it be "Better" than the same recipe with tap water... it would be an interesting experiment with some beer judges to try....

Personally I think it's cool that JP is selling his kits that way. It really goes the extra mile to make the most closest rendition of the beer he wanted you to taste as possible.

 

[Dhm8484]

Thanks this is some great information and easier to put into perspective. Would it be wise to use yeast nutrients also or does the extract have enough minerals and such for the yeast?

 

[pursuit0fhoppiness]

Interested to hear a knowledgeable response to your question Dhm. For my first batch I used DME, tap water with a campden tablet, plus a little bit of yeast nutrient (I forget if 1/2 tsp or how much) with 10-15 mins left in boil, as well as a sprinkle into the fermenter after pitching yeast, so I probably overkilled it... :smack: Didn't want to leave my yeast hungry lol

 

[Yooper]

Thanks this is some great information and easier to put into perspective. Would it be wise to use yeast nutrients also or does the extract have enough minerals and such for the yeast?

You don't need yeast nutrient.

In most cases, it should be left out.

One guy sent me beer with a slightly odd flavor. After going over and over his technique, I found out that each batch had a bit of yeast nutrient added. He didn't believe me, but I said to leave it out once. And he did- and his beer lost that weird off flavor.

Malt has plenty of nutrients for beer. There may be some cases where supplementation may be advisable (particularly zinc) but often "yeast nutrient" is something that isn't needed and may have a flavor impact.

 

[mabrungard]

I'm definitely with Lorena on this one. All malt worts do not need a yeast nutrient since there are plenty of nutrients added from the malt. Its when you are adding significant percentages of simple sugars or honey that you MIGHT want to add a little nutrient. Most yeast nutrients do contain zinc and maybe a bit of manganese (both are necessary yeast micronutrients). Both of those elements have a strong flavor if present at too high a concentration.

When in doubt...leave it out. If you are going to use it, this is definitely a case where: Less is More.

 

[pursuit0fhoppiness]

Hey guys, dumb question but I'm about to brew an oatmeal stout and just bought some distilled water. It has literally 0 of every mineral, is this normal for all distilled water or should it have some? Not really worried as I'm using DME and a pinch of yeast nutrient so sure I'll be fine.

 

[Revvy]

Hey guys, dumb question but I'm about to brew an oatmeal stout and just bought some distilled water. It has literally 0 of every mineral, is this normal for all distilled water or should it have some? Not really worried as I'm using DME and a pinch of yeast nutrient so sure I'll be fine.

That's the point of distilled water, the distillation process removes them.

 

[pursuit0fhoppiness]

Thought so haha don't mind me Thanks Revvy

 

[Muckdog]

I've switched to exclusively using distilled water recently with good results. I feel like it has made my beers smoother and brought out the hops a little bit more. Plus, 5 gallons of distilled water is only about $5 so it's really not much of an investment. If you've never used it, I recommend trying it and seeing what you think since it's so inexpensive to try.

 

[Dhm8484]

Yea I plan on using it on my next batch. It's same price as spring water for I think 89 cents a gallon

 

[Phingertoes04]

Thank you for posting this... i didn't even stop to think about using distilled water or RO. i figured spring/bottled drinking water was way better than tap but never considered distilled over Spring water.

gonna give this a try on my next Sunday Brew Day!

 

[eadavis80]

Never noticed whether I use tap (w/ or without campden) or spring water in all honesty. I just use tap without campden now.