Job Counter offer question

[VermVerm]

So I left my job as a VP at Chase Bank two weeks ago. I was making 61K and had 4 weeks of vacation. I was getting a ton of heat and was told that even though sales were up 40% y/y I was making too much and they had to get rid of some of the higher paid people.(which I didn't think was me). So a small credit union has offered me a business development spot and I wanted some advice on what you would do in my situation. They offered me 65K and 3 weeks vacation. They think that I have an offer from another bank (a bluff or a white lie) and they think that their offer was 65K. I asked the HR person if the offer was in stone and she said no, they have been searching hard for the right person and they think its me. She said that they would not take it as a negative if I counter offered. So tomorrow I have to counter offer. So what would you guys counter offer?

Remember, the more I make the more I brew and the closer I get to starting the brewery

 

[Bedlam]

I'd counter with 68K and 4 weeks vacation.

Then, when they come back with 66 and 4 weeks, take it.

But it's not like I know anything about this stuff...

 

[Dr_Deathweed]

Someone with more experience in the banking/business world please correct me if I am wrong.

I heard if you are in a position to counter offer, add 5% to what they offered. Its not too much more so you don't seem greedy, but an extra 3.25K in your case isn't something to turn your nose up at.

 

[arturo7]

If HR said the offer was not in stone and also said they think you are the right person, I would by all means make a counter offer. Judging by what HR told you I would guess that there is more in the budget for your position.

Tell them that you think the job is a great opportunity but there is another offer on the table. Their bank is great but dollars are dollars.

Of course you have to do what is comfortable for you, but why not ask for $72. If they come back with more than their original offer you've done your job.

Always negotiate from a position of power. It sounds like you've got a bit of leverage.

 

[c.n.budz]

I agree with deathweed, maybe ask for a little more vacation time also. But keep in mind that you are bluffing so you don't want to ask for too much then get refused

 

[jdoiv]

As a recruiter that deals with this all the time, just tell them what you realistically want. If it's 72K and 3 weeks then ask. If you were my client, I would tell you to ask for the 4 weeks vacation and tell them you don't want to go backwards on the time off you've built during your career. Sounds to me that leaving your job was a good decision. The worst that happens is that they come back with a little more of something or say they have tapped out and the original offer is the best they can do.

 

[BrianP]

My friend gave me some great advice. Never be the first one to name a price.

In your case, they already were first and made an offer, but maybe you can get them to up their offer without you having to put out a counter. Who knows, they may offer you more than you would have suggested.

 

[menschmaschine]

I've been told that you don't counter offer. You politely refuse the job and don't say why. If they really want you, they'll ask why. Just tell them it's not the money you were hoping for. Then they'll make a higher offer and you're golden. But I'm certainly no expert, so take my opinion with a grain of salt... plus it sounds like the subject of counter-offers was discussed and not discouraged, so you may be in a special situation.

 

[Bearcat Brewmeister]

Do you have a feel for what people with your experience in your market make? I don't know squat about banking, but it is possible they are probing with their offer - just throwing out a number with the expectation of a counter offer and that the counter offer will be reasonable since you don't want to scare them off.

I guess I agree in part with the last 3 posters. If you know the salary range of someone with your experience in your job market and you believe you sold yourself well (which it sounds like based on their comments), then confidentally ask for something on the high side of the range (with the extra vacation). If you are uncertain of the range for someone of your experience, maybe the other tactic of trying to get them to up their offer without you counteroffering may work better.

Please let us know how this turns out for you. I am also in the job market for the first time in 8 years and may soon be in the same boat as you regarding how to handle an offer.

 

[kenche]

A year ago I was in a similar position. My approach was to agree to the salary offered with a slight caveat. At the sixth month point on the job I would receive a 10% raise if I had a favourable performance review. I also requested an additional week of vaction, as their offer was less than I was used to receiving.

Within the first 6 months there was a market adjustment raise of ~5%. After 6 months I got my 10% raise.

 

[HenryHill]

Aren't they going to expect a savvy prospect-the 'right' prospect, to counter-offer?

Down the road 'if's' are still if's...maybe a portion of your increase but don't put all your eggs in that basket. Paying Incentive on Their part will be enticing.

Respectfully ask to keep your 4 weeks, that's a non-tangible-and ask for half of what you desire in salary-give and take bartering says they meet you halfway.

Cave early and they'll wonder why-act greedy and they may continue to look...there is a happy medium...

Business development is a creative venture-begging a creative C.O.

But IDKS.

 

[joejaz]

Why would you quit your present job before you had a comitment for another position. You have more bargaining power and your value is perceived to be higher if you are working and have to be lured from your position, especially with a prestigious bank like Chase. Also with the prospect of recession and the effects of the sub-prime fallout on the banking and finacial industry can you really afford to bluff a counter offer. Ask yourself, do you really want this position; what are your other prospects; how is the job market right now in the banking and finanical industry , how long can you afford to stay out of work? I f you are out to long, you may have to lower your sites and take something out of necessity. Good luck, I hope you make the right decision.

 

[kenche]

Down the road 'if's' are still if's...

That depends. I know that I am in the top percentile of my industry. They likely expected a 5% counter offer, but I knew that I guaranteed myself a 10% raise. If you are an average performer, maybe this is not the best route.

 

[HenryHill]

Many people become unhappy with promises that were not kept.

This can lead to bad morale.

Bad morale often leads to poor performance.

 

[VermVerm]

Why would you quit your present job before you had a comitment for another position. You have more bargaining power and your value is perceived to be higher if you are working and have to be lured from your position, especially with a prestigious bank like Chase. Also with the prospect of recession and the effects of the sub-prime fallout on the banking and finacial industry can you really afford to bluff a counter offer. Ask yourself, do you really want this position; what are your other prospects; how is the job market right now in the banking and finanical industry , how long can you afford to stay out of work? I f you are out to long, you may have to lower your sites and take something out of necessity. Good luck, I hope you make the right decision.

I quit when Chase told me that anybody's branch that is considered a large branch and was not in the top of the performance levels was going to be written up and let go in about a month. This is because all the banks have to get rid of well paid managers. My sales numbers were up 40% last year at a $180 million branch...thats really good. BUT employee expense was up 40% also so it was a wash. Banking is very complicated and although six months ago my DM ranked me as his top out of 11 I was under pressure. I gave my two weeks and was still "technically" employed while I spent all day interviewing.
The truth is it was a gamble, but I had to play the game. Its my family and survival we are talking about. But I was not going to wait to get fired. There are 100 branches in the market for Chase, the top 10 branches have either left or stayed to get fired in the last month. Cost cutting is probably going around everywhere in the banking industry.

 

[VermVerm]

So here is the conclusion. I counter offered the next day at 72K and 4 weeks vacation. While I was waiting the other bank that I thought was going to make an offer called and did make an offer. They offered 2 weeks and 54K oh sh**. I told them that they needed to come up to the 70K and 4 weeks to be in the game and he said that their District managers don't even get that. So I waited, and my wife freaked out, and I started to freak a little. Thank God I had a great home brew(called Unemployment Amber) on tap! They came back with 65K and 3 weeks...but they threw in a 3K sign on bonus and an early comp review after 6 months. I accepted and am very lucky to be employed again. I start next Tuesday the 19th.

A couple of notes.
My wife(and I guess I) own a home cleaning business that she runs. . We live in a house that we bought for 115k about 5 years ago(all brick ranch 1700SF, on an acre, with a bada$* 25x25 deck I built on the back and a 800SQ brewshop out back.). That is our only debt. I can't imagine if I lived in area where a good house like ours would cost 300k-500K. Or I had car loans, CC debt, or a wife that didn't work. I guess what I am preaching here is with a recession coming it would be a good time to get your spending under control. The banking industry that I work in is often the first to be under pressure during downturns. I don't know what you guys do but I guess learn from my situation. Also, thanks for all of the advice. This situation is why I love this site. This is one hell of a source for advice on all things. Thanks guys...now where is my beer?

 

[Donasay]

The thing you have to evaluate is whether or not you are actually going to use your vacation time. Many people in the finance industry don't ever use their vacation because there is always someone willing to do your job for less money below you, as you are well aware of from the dealings with your previous company. An extra week of vacation time may be worth a little more than a grand to you, but to the company it is worth your lost productivity, which must be more than your salary, plus the salary they have to pay you while you are taking paid time off.

If you are going to use your extra week of vacation, I would just ask for another week of vacation keep the pay offer and enjoy it, if they say no, just remember the extra vacation time is worth at least double the salary you would have made in your time off.