I've been making wine with wild yeast for a while

[nagomi]

I've been making wine with wild yeast for a while.

I've got no proper brewing yeast here. I do have a baking yeast. Last time when I tried it, it didn't seem to be polluted. It tasted OK and smelled OK as well, but it was almost just a lukewarm soda with fizz. If there's any alcohol, I had to literally concentrate and try to convince myself maybe there IS some. I guess at this stage, it's already a failure. So I decided that this baking yeast is a gone.

And as for wild yeast, I just wash grapes and put them in with sugar or honey and water. That's it. And wait for about 2 weeks and it does get some booze in it, but very weak. Is this normal?

1) I have no chance making a proper booze (at least 5% or higher) with a baking yeast?
2) Wild yeast can make any more than 4% if I wait long enough? and how long would it be?

 

[Yooper]

1. Yes, you can. Not sure how high the ABV can be pushed in bread yeast, but certainly 10%.
2. Yes- but it depends on what kind of wild yeast you get, and not bacteria or other microbes.

I had an idea- why not try Joe's Ancient Orange Mead, if you don't have a hydrometer or a way to determine any sort of alcohol measurement? Then you're not guessing quite as much, and make a delicious easy drink as well.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/joes-ancient-orange-mead.49106/
Or, if you have fruit we can help you come up with a recipe that we've done and give you some more helpful advice. I've only used bread yeast a couple of times, but I've made over 700 gallons of wine so I have a pretty good grasp on how to get a decent product even with bread yeast instead of wine yeast

 

[nagomi]

1. Yes, you can. Not sure how high the ABV can be pushed in bread yeast, but certainly 10%.
2. Yes- but it depends on what kind of wild yeast you get, and not bacteria or other microbes.

I had an idea- why not try Joe's Ancient Orange Mead, if you don't have a hydrometer or a way to determine any sort of alcohol measurement? Then you're not guessing quite as much, and make a delicious easy drink as well.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/joes-ancient-orange-mead.49106/
Or, if you have fruit we can help you come up with a recipe that we've done and give you some more helpful advice. I've only used bread yeast a couple of times, but I've made over 700 gallons of wine so I have a pretty good grasp on how to get a decent product even with bread yeast instead of wine yeast

Wow, that's wonderful. Sounds hopeful. What do you think my attempt with a baking yeast was wrong? I only included: water, sugar and the yeast. And the results were a softdrink-like, totally non-boozy, water. Is it that this baking yeast is just not suited for brewing?

And thanks for the recipe! I really should try that out. It's quite seldom when I get to have access to oranges, but I'll keep an eye on them at the store.

 

[Yooper]

The problem with your baking yeast attempt was water, sugar, yeast. That's not wine! Plus, you'll need specific measurements of the amounts of sugar and water, and fruit or juice, if you don't have a hydrometer.

If you don't have oranges, there is a grape version: Joe's Quick Grape Mead
You don't know buckwheat honey- just whatever honey you have available.

 

[Yooper]

Do you have canned/bottled/frozen juices available? We can help you make a wine with that, and it would be tasty as well as easy.

 

[nagomi]

Or, if you have fruit we can help you come up with a recipe that we've done and give you some more helpful advice. I've only used bread yeast a couple of times, but I've made over 700 gallons of wine so I have a pretty good grasp on how to get a decent product even with bread yeast instead of wine yeast

I do have grapes, apples and mandarines and .. that's it. I still do have my bread yeast whose expiration date is until Aug. 2021. Is there a chance this particular baking yeast happens to be not a cut out for brewing?

 

[nagomi]

Do you have canned/bottled/frozen juices available? We can help you make a wine with that, and it would be tasty as well as easy.

No. Because all of them I can find here are with preservatives. I do know what happens when there's preservatives. Nothing lol. I've been there, sadly.

 

[Yooper]

No- if your bread will rise, the yeast is good.
If you want to look through the recipes here: Wine Recipes you can get some ideas on how much sugar per gallon and fruit you'd want to use to make something palatable. You may not have access to some things like pectic enzyme, but that's ok.

 

[bernardsmith]

Nagomi, It's hard to imagine why your bread yeast has no tolerance for alcohol except that you may be treating it as if you are baking bread and not making a wine, but even suppose you stick with native (wild) yeast and one thing you might consider is "jacking" the wine you make. Let's say that your yeast (bread or native) makes a wine at about 4% ABV. if you have a freezer I would stick that wine in the freezer until it appears to have frozen. Turn the container upside down and collect the first 1/3 of the liquid that forms. That 1/3 will contain all the alcohol and sugar but considerably less water, so the ABV will be about twice what the yeast was able to produce. This is not an inexpensive process - because if the yeast gave you say, 6 liters of wine, you are collecting 2 -3 liters and tossing out the remainder as essentially water.

 

[nagomi]

Nagomi, It's hard to imagine why your bread yeast has no tolerance for alcohol except that you may be treating it as if you are baking bread and not making a wine, but even suppose you stick with native (wild) yeast and one thing you might consider is "jacking" the wine you make. Let's say that your yeast (bread or native) makes a wine at about 4% ABV. if you have a freezer I would stick that wine in the freezer until it appears to have frozen. Turn the container upside down and collect the first 1/3 of the liquid that forms. That 1/3 will contain all the alcohol and sugar but considerably less water, so the ABV will be about twice what the yeast was able to produce. This is not an inexpensive process - because if the yeast gave you say, 6 liters of wine, you are collecting 2 -3 liters and tossing out the remainder as essentially water.

That IS one very interesting method. I thought I would have to filter it through (after freezing), but your suggestion would save much time. Thanks to the quarantine, it's still expensive just to have any booze after all. And as for the treatment of the yeast, I have no clue. I just put them into the equation: water, sugar and yeast. And that's it.

I just got a bottle of mineral water, and put sugar in it and the bread yeast too. It did, of course start fermenting. And All I've got after 2 weeks and even further into week 3, was just no alcohol but fizz with sweetness. If there's any room for adjustment or mistakes (potentially), then I would given different attempts, but I'm at my wit's ends.

 

[Yooper]

That IS one very interesting method. I thought I would have to filter it through (after freezing), but your suggestion would save much time. Thanks to the quarantine, it's still expensive just to have any booze after all. And as for the treatment of the yeast, I have no clue. I just put them into the equation: water, sugar and yeast. And that's it.

I just got a bottle of mineral water, and put sugar in it and the bread yeast too. It did, of course start fermenting. And All I've got after 2 weeks and even further into week 3, was just no alcohol but fizz with sweetness. If there's any room for adjustment or mistakes (potentially), then I would given different attempts, but I'm at my wit's ends.

You have to measure the sugar and water- "some" just won't do. If you really want to make something drinkable with appropriate amounts of alcohol, it's really important to follow the recipe. Wine is made of fruit and yeast, and that's it. We can use some sugar to boost the alcohol in fruit that is lacking (all fruits except wine grapes), but measured amounts will give you results that are dependable.

Mineral water is a poor choice for starting- you want as blank slate for water as you can get.

 

[bernardsmith]

I agree with Yooper. You want spring water , not mineral water. And You want to use sugars that a) provide the yeast with the basic minerals and B vitamins, (zinc, potassium, manganese, nitrogen, calcium and phosphorous) that the yeast need to build and repair cells; and b) provide you with a decent flavored alcohol. I have no clue where you are located but in the USA today, dandelions are exploding open in yards and green spaces. You can make a delicious dandelion wine (lots if recipes on line). If you have bottled apple juice you can make hard cider - simply open the bottle drink a cup of the juice and pitch your yeast. If you have tea you can make a tea wine: boil enough tea /tea bags to make a gallon of good tasting tea and add sugar. Two and a half pounds of table sugar dissolved in water to make one US gallon will result in a wine (all other things being equal) of about 12% alcohol by volume.
Going back to the point about the yeast's need for nutrients - You might note that despite the fact that yeast are single cell fungi, their nutritional needs are very similar to ours... If you do not have access to good lab cultured yeast nutrients you might either boil a tablespoon of bread yeast in a quarter cup of water (I would proof the yeast first so that the cells are a fully active and the yeast have absorbed everything they need to make sterols and the like) and then add those dead yeast cells into your must - (that's the technical term for the liquid into which you are going to be pitching (adding) your fermenting yeast. OR if you take daily multi-vitamins those pills contain just about everything that the yeast need, except perhaps organic nitrogen. I might add a crushed tablet shortly after pitching your bread yeast.
Last point: and you may know this but your posts suggest that you may not. Yeast make alcohol from the sugar. They don't make alcohol once they have eaten up all the sugar. and 1 pound of table sugar (a pound, not a spoonful) dissolved in water to make 1 US gallon of liquid will provide the yeast with enough sugar to make a wine with about 5% alcohol - That's close to twice the amount of alcohol in a Guinness beer. So, providing the yeast with say, 4 oz of sugar in that same volume will make a drink that will have about 1- 1.5% alcohol. So, I wonder if your problem is nothing more than making a sugar solution that does not have enough raw material to make alcohol. And again, asking yeast to ferment simple sugar will not make a good tasting drink. The more flavor you begin with , the more flavor you will end up with..

 

[nagomi]

I agree with Yooper. You want spring water , not mineral water. And You want to use sugars that a) provide the yeast with the basic minerals and B vitamins, (zinc, potassium, manganese, nitrogen, calcium and phosphorous) that the yeast need to build and repair cells; and b) provide you with a decent flavored alcohol. I have no clue where you are located but in the USA today, dandelions are exploding open in yards and green spaces. You can make a delicious dandelion wine (lots if recipes on line). If you have bottled apple juice you can make hard cider - simply open the bottle drink a cup of the juice and pitch your yeast. If you have tea you can make a tea wine: boil enough tea /tea bags to make a gallon of good tasting tea and add sugar. Two and a half pounds of table sugar dissolved in water to make one US gallon will result in a wine (all other things being equal) of about 12% alcohol by volume.
Going back to the point about the yeast's need for nutrients - You might note that despite the fact that yeast are single cell fungi, their nutritional needs are very similar to ours... If you do not have access to good lab cultured yeast nutrients you might either boil a tablespoon of bread yeast in a quarter cup of water (I would proof the yeast first so that the cells are a fully active and the yeast have absorbed everything they need to make sterols and the like) and then add those dead yeast cells into your must - (that's the technical term for the liquid into which you are going to be pitching (adding) your fermenting yeast. OR if you take daily multi-vitamins those pills contain just about everything that the yeast need, except perhaps organic nitrogen. I might add a crushed tablet shortly after pitching your bread yeast.
Last point: and you may know this but your posts suggest that you may not. Yeast make alcohol from the sugar. They don't make alcohol once they have eaten up all the sugar. and 1 pound of table sugar (a pound, not a spoonful) dissolved in water to make 1 US gallon of liquid will provide the yeast with enough sugar to make a wine with about 5% alcohol - That's close to twice the amount of alcohol in a Guinness beer. So, providing the yeast with say, 4 oz of sugar in that same volume will make a drink that will have about 1- 1.5% alcohol. So, I wonder if your problem is nothing more than making a sugar solution that does not have enough raw material to make alcohol. And again, asking yeast to ferment simple sugar will not make a good tasting drink. The more flavor you begin with , the more flavor you will end up with..

This is my first day and I feel like my brain was crushed up. Thank you so much. There are plenty to try!

 

[nagomi]

You have to measure the sugar and water- "some" just won't do. If you really want to make something drinkable with appropriate amounts of alcohol, it's really important to follow the recipe. Wine is made of fruit and yeast, and that's it. We can use some sugar to boost the alcohol in fruit that is lacking (all fruits except wine grapes), but measured amounts will give you results that are dependable.

Mineral water is a poor choice for starting- you want as blank slate for water as you can get.

Thank you, Yooper for being so nice to give my much of feedback. But what is "blank slate" in terms of water?

 

[Yooper]

You want nothing in the water- as little mineralization as possible.