It's been 30 years

[Pete S]

I did a little bit of brewing in college. It was drinkable, but not great. There's so much more information available now. I've been doing a ton of reading and watching Youtube videos on all of it over the past few days. I have a 6 gallon stainless steel pot, so I could do some malt extract based brewing if I get a fermenter, Star San, a few other odds and ends, and a way to bottle or keg it.

After watching lots of Grainfather, Anvil Foundry, RoboBrew, Mash & Boil, etc. videos, I was leaning more toward not using one of them for the mash and boil, but instead getting a separate mash tun and kettle, plus using the 6.5 gallon Anvil Foundry with its stainless steel immersion coil as a HERMS for regulating mash temps, and for providing the proper temp sparging water. The costs of that adds up pretty quickly. It finally dawned on me that some of the issues that people were having with the 10.5 gallon Foundry (and competing units), which were pushing me away from getting one, are less likely to occur with the 6.5 gallon model. Some people seemed to be having problems with overly compacted grain beds in the bigger model, which could be from less than ideal grain milling or from too high a recirculation rate. It seems like Blichmann/Anvil decided to add more perforations up the side of the grain basket to help prevent stuck mash conditions, but what it potentially results in is more wort flowing out through the sides, and the center of the grain bed not draining or being sparged as well. The 6.5 gallon Foundry doesn't have the perforations in the side of the grain basket, which is probably better with a smaller grain load (or a larger one, if it's not too compacted).

Anyway, my high end system was to get a 10 gallon SS BrewTech kettle to use for both heating water to strike temp and also for the boil, a 10 gallon SS BrewTech mash tun, and a 6.5 gallon Anvil Foundry to use as a HERMS and to provide sparging water. I think for now I'm going to just order a 6.5 gallon Anvil Foundry and a 3.5 gallon SS BrewTech Brew Bucket with the cooling kit.

-Pete

 

[fourfarthing]

Welcome back

 

[Dinadan]

You sound kind of like me. I brewed a lot for a few years in the 1980s. Then all kinds of things involving life got in my way. I just started up again. It is kind of funny, but I learned every thing that was essential from a 20 page booklet from Bierhaus International. Now there is soo much info available that it would be easy to become frozen in place while trying to figure out what to do.

 

[mongoose33]

You might look into Brew-in-a-Bag.

Welcome back, regardless. Things are different today, and a lot of things that used to be "settled knowledge" have been displaced by new ideas. For instance, sparging. I do single-infusion brewing, no sparging at all. Or using a secondary. Almost nobody does any more, unless they're newbies reading outdated instructions they received with a kit, or they're doing some aging or adjunct kind of thing. I haven't used a secondary since my 3rd brew, and would never do that unless there's a weird reason.

 

[Pete S]

I really didn't do much research back then on what to do. I think that making sure that everything is sanitized, after the step of boiling the wort, has been well known for a long time. Back then, I didn't give much thought fermentation temperatures. It was probably in your book, but I was winging it. Now there's more information easily available about water chemistry, mash temperatures, yeast starters, you name it. I actually don't find the wealth of information daunting at all. For me it comes down to not wanting to spend a bunch of money on gear that I end up feeling is undersized or not as good as what I feel I should have bought in the first place. At the same time, I don't want to buy a Unitank, then decide I don't enjoy brewing, which I don't think will be the case, if the beer I'm making is good. I like the idea of of knowing that I have fermentation temperature controlled, so that's not an unknown variable. I don't have an extra refrigerator or chest freezer around to use for controlling fermentation temps, so I it's much easier to buy the neoprene jacket, chiller coil, controller, etc.

If I don't stick with it in the end, someone else will get a great deal on lightly used equipment. I'm okay with that.

 

[Pete S]

You might look into Brew-in-a-Bag.

Welcome back, regardless. Things are different today, and a lot of things that used to be "settled knowledge" have been displaced by new ideas. For instance, sparging. I do single-infusion brewing, no sparging at all. Or using a secondary. Almost nobody does any more, unless they're newbies reading outdated instructions they received with a kit, or they're doing some aging or adjunct kind of thing. I haven't used a secondary since my 3rd brew, and would never do that unless there's a weird reason.

I will look into that more. I have seen the BIAB acronym all over as I was researching. I knew what it stood for. My 6 gallon kettle is all I would need I guess for the mash and boil steps. I have a Thermapen for taking accurate temperature readings. Which leaves the fermenter. Which as I said to @Dinadan above, I want to know that I have fermentation temperature under control, and know what the water pH was, etc., so if things don't turn out like expected, I can exclude a bunch of things as being problems.

 

[mongoose33]

I will look into that more. I have seen the BIAB acronym all over as I was researching. I knew what it stood for. My 6 gallon kettle is all I would need I guess for the mash and boil steps. I have a Thermapen for taking accurate temperature readings. Which leaves the fermenter. Which as I said to @Dinadan above, I want to know that I have fermentation temperature under control, and know what the water pH was, etc., so if things don't turn out like expected, I can exclude a bunch of things as being problems.

I see you've found the "If I Could Start Over...." thread, so no need for me to repeat any of that here. It's a conundrum, and as you indicate in an earlier post above, trying to fine-tune expectations (too much, not enough w/r/t money and capabilities) is problematic.

But....you're asking all the right questions, IMO, and all you need do is choose the answer that satisfies you the most.

Let me throw in a personal analysis, take from it what you will--but reading your stuff above, you sound a lot like me. At least to me.

I started with extract, got a mash tun and did the mash/sparge thing for a while. I did batch sparging which is much simpler and faster than fly sparging, though marginally less efficient.

Then I'd read about BIAB, and decided to try it. It's single-infusion, no sparging, though some people are finding ways to wring more efficiency out of it. But to me, that defeats much of the advantage of BIAB. Simplicity, pure and simple. It's much faster, too. It makes for a very relaxed brew day for me, and I could get done in 3 1/2 hours, usually, from starting setup to being cleaned up and put away.

I'm glad I went through the sparging process--it helped with the learning curve. But in the end, all the sparging stuff does for me is improve efficiency a little, and the tradeoff in money saved is not worth the fiddling and time spent. YMMV.

Another beautiful thing about BIAB is that the investment in doing it is less than than a system with a separate mash tun. If you have a 10-gallon kettle, all you need is a bag (maybe $35 in including pulley hoist) and a place to hang it from above the kettle. So if the process includes just the joy of learning about it, $35 is not a lot to spend for that entertainment--and it's not like it's a compromise. You can produce some excellent beer using that method. I did.

**********

But then I went off the rails. I went on a quest to produce the very best beer I possibly could, and that evolved into a Spike unitank for fermentation, and an electric brewing setup using RIMS to control mash temp and recirculation. It also included low-oxygen brewing techniques on the hot side, which motivated some of the equipment setup.

And yes, the beer is great. I have friends who want to pay me commercial prices for it, a local bar that wants to sell it. It's the best I've ever done, better than I used to do. But not that much better.

The process has become more involved. What used to be a 3 1/2 hour brew day from start-to-finish using BIAB and a Bigmouth Bubbler plastic fermenter moved to a 5-hour brew day using my new fancy, shiny system. And that's not including the cleanup tasks. Takes about 5 minutes to clean up the old plastic fermenter. Takes nearly an hour to clean the unitank, i.e., disassemble ports, sanitize, reassemble, and get ready for the next brew day. I could cheat on that a bit, but the whole point of a unitank is to have a controlled fermentation environment, and potential infection is not on the menu for that.

I can speed that up a bit....I fill the kettle the night before, weigh out grain the night before....I can wake up, flip on the heating element and have coffee while the water heats up, so the day-of time can be reduced, but I'm just shifting it. Some is due to using the RIMS system and often a step-mash, but that's the point of having that system--it allows me almost perfect control over the mash process.

Anyway, that was a rather long and convoluted endorsement of BIAB. It may be the perfect place for you to start as there's little cost in doing it and you'll be able to decide if you want to expand your capabilities (or not) based on how you enjoy it and the beer.


If you ever want to take a trip down the rabbit hole, I can guide you right into it. But not out.

 

[mongoose33]

<snip>I like the idea of of knowing that I have fermentation temperature controlled, so that's not an unknown variable. I don't have an extra refrigerator or chest freezer around to use for controlling fermentation temps, so I it's much easier to buy the neoprene jacket, chiller coil, controller, etc.

If I don't stick with it in the end, someone else will get a great deal on lightly used equipment. I'm okay with that.

Below is a pic of my setup--you can see the large camoflaged refrigerator on the left, and the minifridge below the bench. Both have been used as fermentation chambers; the larger refrigerator also is a place I store spare kegs, force carb them, and use for other general refrigerator-type uses.

I also have a glycol chiller feeding a stainless coil that is inside my Spike unitank. The unitank has a neoprene sleeve which helps some, but not as much as you'd think. Too many protuberances (legs, handles, ports) acting as a heat sink.

Unless you have a unitank (and maybe even then depending), IMO the easiest way to control fermentation is with a refrigerator. You can get them cheap on Craigslist or, if you aren't in a hurry, just wait for a good deal.

Most brewers here would probably tell you that fermentation temperature control was a huge step forward in their brewing. It was for me.

But what you describe above--neoprene jacket, chiller coil--isn't simpler. You still need a source of cold water or glycol solution. Maybe you do that with an icewater batch, who knows, but it's not as simple as the refrigerator.

Those tall dorm-style refrigerators are great for a small footprint. Most people take the plastic shelving off the door, but I was lucky in that my BMB just barely fit.

Anyway, my 2 cents. If you were closer I'd probably sell you my little one. The big one retains far too much usefulness to part with it.

 

[Pete S]

I see you've found the "If I Could Start Over...." thread, so no need for me to repeat any of that here. It's a conundrum, and as you indicate in an earlier post above, trying to fine-tune expectations (too much, not enough w/r/t money and capabilities) is problematic.

But....you're asking all the right questions, IMO, and all you need do is choose the answer that satisfies you the most.

I appreciate all of your input. One thing I like about the electric all-in-one units is the fine temperature control. I have a feeling it would be a little difficult to maintain steady mash temps with my 6 gallon pot and my existing stove, although maybe it would require less babysitting than I expect. I found a couple Youtube videos last night of a guy that has the 6.5 Anvil Foundry and the whole process looks pretty easy. The thing that was pushing me away from that smaller unit was that I want to keg, and I didn't realize initially that you could get 3 gallon corny kegs. So, I ordered the 6.5 Foundry, plus the boiler lid tube and perforated disk for an additional $31.

For fermenting I'm going to go with a couple of SS BrewTech 3.5 Brew Buckets. They're stackable and will be easy to clean. With the 90° hose barb fitting for the lid, you can also do pressurized transfers into kegs. My basement temp has been holding pretty steady around 66-67 degrees lately, so maybe I'll just go with some ales at first and look for a fermenting fridge and chest freezer for a keezer.

I have plenty of other odds and ends to pick up before the Foundry arrives, which probably won't be for at least a couple weeks (it's backordered).