Is your LHBS taking advantage of the Shortage?

[McKBrew]

It is ironic that people condemn the basics of a capitalist system when the very life we live is so dependent on it.

Not trying to condemn the system. Obviously I come across the wrong way.

It just goes against my principle to run a business only to make as much money as I can. I understand that a business needs to turn a profit to stay open and to pay the employees a reasonable wage. In the case of LHBS's that charge prices higher than the competition there could definately be other factors like higher rent, etc... that force him to do so. In the case of hops, maybe his costs did go up. As a consumer, you have no way of knowing why prices are set at a certain level.

Me personally, I'd sleep better at night knowing I was the guy who had competitive prices, and would rather have more customers coming in to buy my product at a lower price, then less coming in at a higher price. My thought would be that more satisfied customers would spread the word, bringing in even more.

Honestly I'm probably not making any sense because I suck at getting my point across sometimes. Again, not bashing capitalism, nor really saying that the guy with high prices is a ******.

What the hell am I saying, I really don't know and since I am on duty tonight, I can't have any beer to clear things up.

 

[invisible76]

Which homebrew places are you talking about? I'm in south jerz as well and am looking for different places to buy as I start getting into this whole homebrew hobby...obession...whatever

 

[tdavisii]

who knew there were so many economists here on the sight? But really some of you have some good points. The point that it is not a necassary item and that if people will pay it then just charge what you want is absolutly what this country is about. But damn cant a regular joe buy some two row for a regular price. Just because you dont "need" something doesnt make sky high prices right (in my book) And buy the way some of you talking about "Needs" arent really needs at all. Ive been to several third world countries. And their needs compared to our needs are not the same. Food water shelter those are needs. The rest are wants and luxuries. Im a big fan of people looking out for people. So if this means keeping your two row prices in check then so be it.

 

[SRTBREW]

Hey you guys should really check out my lhbs's website. Sorry for being a fanboy, but I've dealt with them alone and have been VERY happy. Their 2-row and 6-row prices are $1.00/pound. Bulk is even better. homebrewery.com

 

[z987k]

I dont trust LHBS's much anymore either. I feel if its not part of a large chain (such as Friar Tucks in my hometown), then the ingredients may very well be so old that they need dusting. Skip that. I have been lucky with having pretty good LHBS, but there are def. some bad eggs out there.

we have 2 ok homebrew places. The one on mattis has great deals on bulk grain and friar tuck has awesome selection on the specialties. But if I don't need something today, I like to go to AHS.

 

[Sir Humpsalot]

I get quotes from LHBS on bulk grain... 50-55 lb sacks. Truthfully, the mail order places delivering direct to your door can't compete with the LHBS that's tacking your order along with his.

 

[skinfiddler]

LHBS charges $95/50lb sack. Hops for 4.50/oz (if all you're getting is hops and not a kit).

As business owners I want them to be free to get what they can. As a buyer I want to be free to find ways to get it cheaper and let that LHBS know it.

I would also like to see the incentive stopped for farmers to rip out their (name the other grain) and replace it with corn.

I too would like to get in on a bulk buy. (Any Central Ohio folks game?)

So far when I buy bulk I buy from Listermann in Cincinnati who sell the same bag for $70 shipped, (free shipping on orders over $55 east of the Miss.)

 

[Chris_Dog]

I think loyalty to a certain supplier has to be a two way street. The vendor has to do what he can to control costs or I will go elsewhere. The service level of the LHBS adds value (or should) to the product. You as the consumer have to decide if the added value is worth the added cost.

I know I wouldn't buy grain that is so far over the markets price regardless of the shop owners situation.

 

[FSR402]

I feel bad for those of you that have a crappy LHBS and HAVE to order online. I have a few small places near me but I only go to one of them.
They have enough beer there that I could drink a different beer every day for a few years and never have the same one twice.
They stock an asston of grain, yeast and hops. Base grain runs $.90-1.20/pound and speciality malts are $1.79/pound. You can buy most grain by the once if you want to or the speciality malts are by the pound. You can also buy by the sack at $40 for a sack of pale 2-row. Also they give a 10% off anything for brewing if you are a member of a local homebrew club which I am. If I had free time I would get a part time job there just so I could spend more time there.

 

[Chriso]

I wish ours *had* part-time jobs so I could get one there. It's just the owner, no one else.

 

[bigben]

Apparently, if a store owner just wants to plain old make more money, he's a ******. It's gotta be a "valid" reason! VALID!!!! And wanting to increase profits is apparently not valid.

To take his comment a step further...we need a valid reason why the price went up, or we won't shop there

 

[Bobby_M]

I will support a local shop and pay a slight bit more to do so but the product better be just as good or better and the service I get MUST be better. If I go to the LHBS and complain that I'm paying a 30%+ premium over the SHIPPED price via mailorder and they get smug and defensive, I'm gone. Even with my homebrewclub's 10% discount, they're still a little higher on a sack of grain than I'd pay via shipment. The rub is that I'd spend $10 more in gas to get there and back.

In any case, if I do my comparison shopping and find that their premium price is not worth it to me, I will go elsewhere. In no circumstance would I accuse them of being poor businesspeople or gouging. They're just not competitive enough for me.

 

[mot]

I have two of the main brew stores about 20 minutes away from my place...One has great prices with the shortage the other is very inflated. These are very popular brew stores across the country and one is much cheaper

 

[Chriso]

And if the one that is much cheaper would only run flat-rate like their competitors, then they'd be my new cheapest source. I still spend about 1/3 of my homebrew dollars there though, with the other 2/3 being split between Austin and my lhbs.

 

[BrewBrain]

I will support a local shop and pay a slight bit more to do so but the product better be just as good or better and the service I get MUST be better. If I go to the LHBS and complain that I'm paying a 30%+ premium over the SHIPPED price via mailorder and they get smug and defensive, I'm gone. Even with my homebrewclub's 10% discount, they're still a little higher on a sack of grain than I'd pay via shipment. The rub is that I'd spend $10 more in gas to get there and back.

In any case, if I do my comparison shopping and find that their premium price is not worth it to me, I will go elsewhere. In no circumstance would I accuse them of being poor businesspeople or gouging. They're just not competitive enough for me.

I agree with this. I enjoy having a good, friendly LHBS at my disposal, so I support it and pay a little more than I have to. I get the difference back in convenience as their prices are certainly not at "gouge" level. I'll soon be paying for a deep freeze conversion by paying a little extra for the plumbing supplies, but I consider it worth it in the long run.

This would change if they were asking $3 for a pound of grain

 

[drayman86]

Here's how cool my LHBS is....

It's associated/adjacent to a brewery (owned by the same folks), and I was in the pub last week draining an IPA with the owner while trying to reformulate my weekend recipes based on the hops the HBS currently had in stock. The owner asked me what I was doing and when I told him, he suggested I put together a hops "wish list", and he'd release a few boxes of maybe three or four popular varieties (20 lbs/box) from the brewery to the adjacent LHBS.

I'll never buy anywhere else BUT my LHBS.

 

[Bill1968]

I don't think "gouge" is a good word for the higher prices. Almost every price on everything I use daily has gone up. Power, water, gas, food, soon my taxes. Break down what it costs you per bottle of brewed beer now compaired to the lower price. I'll know it's less than 10 cents per bottle.

Brother, can you spare a dime?

 

[olllllo]

I'm pretty cynical about corporate America, but LHBS are small businesses.

I feel pretty confident in saying that NO ONE is getting crazy rich running such a place and any recent gains gotten (again, which I question is occuring at this level) probably do nothing to offset some pretty lean times.

After all, why do you think these guys are so cranky?

 

[Cakehole]

The LHBS buys in half-pallets because they're tight on storage space. i can't blame 'im. if he bought a full pallet, it would never sell, and spoil.)

Have you considered talking to the owner of the LHBS and offering to purchase the other half of a pallet so both of you can benefit from a bulk purchase? You would get a half pallet for yourself and the LHBS store would get the other half of what I assume is a normal order for them. Perhaps the 2 of you working as a team would see a lower price than the LHBS owner only buying a half pallet.

You support him and get bulk grain for yourself....

Just my thoughts.

Cake

 

[wildwest450]

Jeebus, I have never seen a thread beat a dead horse so bad. Either buy crap locally or don't.

 

[Chriso]

... You would get a half pallet for yourself and the LHBS store would get the other half of what I assume is a normal order for them. ...

Half pallet is way too much - I am looking for 3-4 bags at a time, lasting me ~4-6 months (plus some) in the process. I have tried to 'recruit' other local brewers to split a half-pallet to piggy-back with his order, but we've never gotten more than 8-10 sacks total together, and it's never really materialized. It's not a big deal though - It just mostly hurts because I'm fairly equidistant from all the major online HBSes and so I get "slammed" with shipping no matter what I do. Every time I check up on numbers, there is one HBS that can come within +/- 5 dollars (shipped) of my LHBS'es price (with tax). The rest of them are +5 dollars or more, sometimes far far more. I just envy all of those who have sweet brewery deals that let them get access to "normal" bulk prices without a huge shipping charge.

I don't mean to beat the dead horse. It can die. Poor horse. :fro:

 

[ben the brewman]

it is getting crazy. the first 33 pound jug of malt extract i bought was $70, then it went to $80 and now its $95. i wanted to buy a 8 pound jug of wiedemann wheat malt extract but he told me it was $50 so i left empty handed.

 

[EdWort]

it is getting crazy. the first 33 pound jug of malt extract i bought was $70, then it went to $80 and now its $95. i wanted to buy a 8 pound jug of wiedemann wheat malt extract but he told me it was $50 so i left empty handed.

Yeah, you can thank the cost of Diesel for part of that. AHS sells a 40# bucket for about $96 for most of their malts. I heard that the price increased substantially recently.

 

[RichBrewer]

I guess I'm pretty lucky. My LHBS sells malt by the ounce and hops in 1 ounce bags. They still have decent prices too. Well, it's about 5 minutes from my house too!

 

[ArcaneXor]

Price gouging is a term that describes raising prices on an item that everyone needs in order to survive in a market condition that literally forces you to buy regardless of price. Example: All roads are flooded out and the municipal water system is contaminated. You're a price gouger if you bought up all the bottled water in the area and then row your boat to each house with bottled water and charge $100 a gallon.

It is ironic that people condemn the basics of a capitalist system when the very life we live is so dependent on it.

Are you seriously suggesting beer is not an essential item?

 

[Austinhomebrew]

That's steep.
Now that you're buying online; watch out for
some of the vendors shipping on bulk grain. A 55#
bag of 2 row was at a mere 48bucks was going to
have a lovely shipping price tacked onto it of $27 !!
That's more than half the cost of the grain. That was
the LOWEST option they had on shipping.
The best deals are online, just do your homework, and
screw the LHBS if they charge like that. Those are hyperinflated
prices.

To be fair, $27 is what it cost to ship 55# of grain just about anywhere.
We just shipped an order to a customer in Vermont that was 130#, mostly grain.

Do you want to guess how much we paid for the shipping charges?
Lets don't include the cost for the boxes, tape and shipping peanuts.

$109!! So, $27 for 55# is pretty cheap. Of course, we only charged the customer $6.99 because that is our deal. So when comparing prices, compare the delivered price to your door, not just the price on the product.

Forrest

 

[Austinhomebrew]

Oh, you know it.

Hey, to the OP: what "shortage" are they "taking advantage of"? According to my sorta-local HBS owner, imported grains might be going up but domestic (breiss et al) are actually going down. I bought two 50lb sacks from him for about $50 each, and this was last month.

If people are stupid enough to pay $3.20 for a pound of domestic 2-row, then they deserve to be ripped off. End of story. The d-bag can charge $8/lb is he wants, and if people still buy it, more power to him. If there were stupid bastards out there who were willing to pay me more than the going market rate for something, who am I to turn down their money?

SInce when does anything go down in price? Breiss prices just recently went up. You local guy may have lowered his price but his cost went up.

Forrest

 

[Austinhomebrew]

I think you should tell the LHBS owner how you feel. Present the facts, not your emotions. If he states that he cannot stay in business if he lowers his price, then it is what it is and kindly tell him that you cannot afford to purchase ingredients from him. I am blessed with many great LHBSs in my area. I much prefer seeing what I am buying before I get it, I can see with my eyes how much turn over there is and how fresh my ingredients are. I just ask Brad behind the counter, 'hey how old is this stuff', and he says '___ days, it was dropped off two days ago'. I also like getting his advice and supporting the local small business. I have a great fear of buying ingredients from an online store/warehouse where I have no personal relation with my supplier.

However, I am lucky enough to have access to many stores near me that all have good stock and supplies. I would say in your case if the owner is a dick, or just has outrageous prices, give Forrest your business.

I agree with Evan! I have not seen a significant price increase for anything but hops. My local guy has great hop connections so still has most everything all the time. Because of this, he has spread the price increase of the limited supply hops (Cascade) across all hops so the price has increased, but that's no big whoop.

The owner knows how much other people charge. He has to. Apparently he feels he needs to charge this amount to stay in business, so let him. Just shop elsewhere. I don't think talking to him will help. He thought long and hard if he is charging that much.

Forrest

 

[Austinhomebrew]

man my LHBS is $2.45 a pound. I didn't know any better. But don't have any other local choice. Good think I got plenty of base 2-Row

Youy have http://www.listermann.com

 

[Austinhomebrew]

It seems that, that home brew shop is a farging rip off. I to buy some stuff online but the LHBS here in St. Louis is pretty good. He is a little pricey but is a wealth of knowledge and has fresh homebrew on tap for samples. So to me its worth paying a little extra for the homebrew advice at my beckon call. But i am against any store be it home brew supply or otherwise that are in the business of taking advantage of people.

What about capitalism and the fact that he has to bring in a certain amount of money to stay open? Let the market decide. He has to charge what he needs to stay open. He could charge less but then he won't stay open or he can charge a lot and people will shop elsewhere and he won't stay open.

This is America and he has every right to go out of business anyway he chooses.

Forrest

 

[Austinhomebrew]

damn, i'm so spoiled. my LHBS doesn't overcharge for anything...i'm still paying <$1.50/lb of grain and can get it cheaper in bulk. hops prices are $3/oz right now.

their turnaround is AMAZING. all the ingredients are nice and fresh because they're constantly checking what they sell and what to buy. it is a VERY well run customer-based business.

great beer always on tap, too. the extract recipes are incredible...i don't know how they get rid of the twang with certain recipes.

i practically live there.

Because Extract twang does not exist. Don't hijack this thread because of me. Start a new thread if you want to discuss the myth.

 

[Austinhomebrew]

I will redefine my use of the word ****** to mean "poor business practice."

Evan!, as much as your economics posts p!ss me off, you are totally right. No one has to shop at the LHBS that is selling items at a price significantly more than the competition and it seems like many of us can agree that it's not the way we would personally run a business.

Take for example the gas station owners who raised the prices to $6/gal after Hurricane Katrina. Everyone called it price gouging, but in reality as long as people were willing to pay it, there was nothing wrong with it. Am I finally getting it?

One of the oil companies CEO made $400,000,000 in 2006. That is $192,307.69 per hour if he worked 52 weeks and 40 hour a week. He probably took a vacation in there somewhere as well. It is a little different comparing gas to homebrew items.

I doubt the homebrew store guy is making that much. He probably has very high expenses and a low customer base and doesn't want to go back to working for the man.

Forrest

 

[Austinhomebrew]

Jeebus, I have never seen a thread beat a dead horse so bad. Either buy crap locally or don't.

We are actually debating the merits of Capitalism vs. Socialism but using LHBS as a metaphor so we don't sound all high-brow.

Does anyone on this thread run a business that is or was successful?

Forrest

 

[Austinhomebrew]

I wish ours *had* part-time jobs so I could get one there. It's just the owner, no one else.

I realize it would be a long commute but you can work part time for me.

You could work Mondays and then the 2 days to get back to Nebraska and 2 days to get back to Austin. Then you could work Saturday....

Or if you think you can drive the 14 hours straight you could work every 4th day. That would definately be a part time job.

Forrest

 

[scinerd3000]

****....forrest is pissed.

 

[scinerd3000]

****....forrest is pissed. In defense though AHB is pretty damn cheap compared to my LHBS...they are at what i will consider gouge levels.

 

[Austinhomebrew]

****....forrest is pissed.

Seriously, why would you think I am pissed? I never get pissed.
Well I got pissed once when an employee started to pour some dark liquid extract and went to the bathroom and took a magazine with him. He poured about 300 pounds on the ground. I had him clean it all up then fired him. Slacker duuuude.

 

[Ryanh1801]

Seriously, why would you think I am pissed? I never get pissed.
Well I got pissed once when an employee started to pour some dark liquid extract and went to the bathroom and took a magazine with him. He poured about 300 pounds on the ground. I had him clean it all up then fired him. Slacker duuuude.

I bet that was a fun clean up.. I think I would have beyond pissed for that one.

 

[SourHopHead]

I saved ~$20 from my LHBS. I hated to do it, but it was done this time.

 

[DeathBrewer]

Because Extract twang does not exist. Don't hijack this thread because of me. Start a new thread if you want to discuss the myth.

i'm not hijacking anything...and cool your jets, buddy

i'll start another thread when i do a little test