Is your LHBS taking advantage of the Shortage?

[cee3]

$64!!!!!! Ouch! Hope that's not domestic.

My "local" (30 mi) is ThingsBeer, which is at the Michigan Brewery, sells Briess malts for $33-$41/50lb and $1.10-$1.50/lb. Hops are now $3 and liquid yeast $6.25.

 

[Evan!]

But seriously, all pricing should be cost-based? And a business owner should sell a product for less than people are willing to pay because...why? Charity?

Apparently, if a store owner just wants to plain old make more money, he's a ******. It's gotta be a "valid" reason! VALID!!!! And wanting to increase profits is apparently not valid.

 

[MrFebtober]

My LHBS isn't gouging on prices, but because of the hop shortage he's implemented a kind of anti-hording policy: You must purchase 3 lbs of extract or 6 lbs of grain for every 1 ounce of hops you buy. I guess this could bite me when i go to brew my next batch of Hopopotomus, but for most batches it hasn't been an issue. In fact I don't even think it's that bad of an idea. I can't complain, I just bought some cascade whole hops for $1.95/oz. yesterday. I hadn't seen cascade in the freezer in months!

 

[tdavisii]

i·ro·ny[ahy-ruh-nee, ahy-er-] –noun, plural -nies.
1. Complaint about capitalism by an internet forum user with a corporate cartoon character as an avatar.

Sorry, that just struck me as, well, ironic

But seriously, all pricing should be cost-based? And a business owner should sell a product for less than people are willing to pay because...why? Charity?

Another opinion of mine is maybe we should just not take advantage of others just because of capitalism. Just because you can get away with it doesnt mean we should. On the other hand i hope our economy puts this guy out of business. I do agree with most of what you say bike n brew but at what point would you not back this high priced LHBS? At what point does it become just out right wrong?

 

[MNBugeater]

Im in the camp that believes a business charges what they can. And the market dictates that result.

If the guy can get you to pay $4/lb, more power to him. If the next guy that comes in says "No way", and goes to the next LHBS, then so be it. But as long as people pay $4/lb for grain, he'll keep selling it.

This isn't exactly a necessity item. You know what you are buying up front. I see the same arguments or negative feedback on eBay. People will rate a seller poorly or give negative feedback because of high shipping costs AFTER they buy something when they knew the shipping costs BEFORE they bought it. So they KNEW they would get hosed and still bought the item yet they choose to complain.

This isn't like the government is seizing assets or property via eminent domain and is paying "fair market value". There isn't a fair market value in this case. It's capitalism at its finest. The market will bare his fate.

 

[McKBrew]

If you're charging more than people are willing to pay, then you're also not a smart businessman, because people won't buy your product if it costs more than they're willing to pay.

I will redefine my use of the word ****** to mean "poor business practice."

Evan!, as much as your economics posts p!ss me off, you are totally right. No one has to shop at the LHBS that is selling items at a price significantly more than the competition and it seems like many of us can agree that it's not the way we would personally run a business.

Take for example the gas station owners who raised the prices to $6/gal after Hurricane Katrina. Everyone called it price gouging, but in reality as long as people were willing to pay it, there was nothing wrong with it. Am I finally getting it?

 

[Chriso]

I hate that place first of all, because you have to buy the grain in their special increments. For instance, I can't get 5oz of Roasted Barley...I have to buy a whole pound.

The Problem is, they are charging $16 for a 5lb bag of Domestic 2-Row. WTF is that??? A little math shows that as $3.20 a pound. The specialty grains were around $4 a pound.

- Mine sells in whole lb's too. I appreciate it because I get a stock of specialty grains built up. Then I don't have to run out because I'm 1 oz short on chocolate malt - I just pull out my bag of spare choco.

- I'm going to play the devil's advocate: Maybe the LHBS'es rent is astronomically higher than the "other" LHBS, who is probably in a different suburb/neighborhood/etc. Maybe he HAS to charge those rates to keep his rent paid.

 

[Bobby_M]

I will redefine my use of the word ****** to mean "poor business practice."

Evan!, as much as your economics posts p!ss me off, you are totally right. No one has to shop at the LHBS that is selling items at a price significantly more than the competition and it seems like many of us can agree that it's not the way we would personally run a business.

Take for example the gas station owners who raised the prices to $6/gal after Hurricane Katrina. Everyone called it price gouging, but in reality as long as people were willing to pay it, there was nothing wrong with it. Am I finally getting it?

Price gouging is a term that describes raising prices on an item that everyone needs in order to survive in a market condition that literally forces you to buy regardless of price. Example: All roads are flooded out and the municipal water system is contaminated. You're a price gouger if you bought up all the bottled water in the area and then row your boat to each house with bottled water and charge $100 a gallon.

It is ironic that people condemn the basics of a capitalist system when the very life we live is so dependent on it.

 

[Bobby_M]

Another opinion of mine is maybe we should just not take advantage of others just because of capitalism. Just because you can get away with it doesnt mean we should. On the other hand i hope our economy puts this guy out of business. I do agree with most of what you say bike n brew but at what point would you not back this high priced LHBS? At what point does it become just out right wrong?

I don't think it ever becomes wrong. The alternative is Communism basically. Think of it this way, if the government stepped in and dictated at homebrew suppliers, or any consumer goods for that matter, could only profit 5%. How many businesses would close up shop because it's just not worth it to them? Capitalism has a pros and cons, but I submit that it has mostly pros and you have to swallow the cons to make it work.

 

[Buford]

My LHBS doesn't gouge on prices, but they limit how much you can get as far as hops go. Said they're lucky if the get 10 oz per shipment of stock. Last time I scored because the let me go over the limit by an ounce and a half because they'd have to break a package to do it, but they still sell for just over a dollar per ounce.

There's the only shop around, but considering online shops they still have plenty competition. They don't want to run regulars away.

 

[McKBrew]

It is ironic that people condemn the basics of a capitalist system when the very life we live is so dependent on it.

Not trying to condemn the system. Obviously I come across the wrong way.

It just goes against my principle to run a business only to make as much money as I can. I understand that a business needs to turn a profit to stay open and to pay the employees a reasonable wage. In the case of LHBS's that charge prices higher than the competition there could definately be other factors like higher rent, etc... that force him to do so. In the case of hops, maybe his costs did go up. As a consumer, you have no way of knowing why prices are set at a certain level.

Me personally, I'd sleep better at night knowing I was the guy who had competitive prices, and would rather have more customers coming in to buy my product at a lower price, then less coming in at a higher price. My thought would be that more satisfied customers would spread the word, bringing in even more.

Honestly I'm probably not making any sense because I suck at getting my point across sometimes. Again, not bashing capitalism, nor really saying that the guy with high prices is a ******.

What the hell am I saying, I really don't know and since I am on duty tonight, I can't have any beer to clear things up.

 

[invisible76]

Which homebrew places are you talking about? I'm in south jerz as well and am looking for different places to buy as I start getting into this whole homebrew hobby...obession...whatever

 

[tdavisii]

who knew there were so many economists here on the sight? But really some of you have some good points. The point that it is not a necassary item and that if people will pay it then just charge what you want is absolutly what this country is about. But damn cant a regular joe buy some two row for a regular price. Just because you dont "need" something doesnt make sky high prices right (in my book) And buy the way some of you talking about "Needs" arent really needs at all. Ive been to several third world countries. And their needs compared to our needs are not the same. Food water shelter those are needs. The rest are wants and luxuries. Im a big fan of people looking out for people. So if this means keeping your two row prices in check then so be it.

 

[SRTBREW]

Hey you guys should really check out my lhbs's website. Sorry for being a fanboy, but I've dealt with them alone and have been VERY happy. Their 2-row and 6-row prices are $1.00/pound. Bulk is even better. homebrewery.com

 

[z987k]

I dont trust LHBS's much anymore either. I feel if its not part of a large chain (such as Friar Tucks in my hometown), then the ingredients may very well be so old that they need dusting. Skip that. I have been lucky with having pretty good LHBS, but there are def. some bad eggs out there.

we have 2 ok homebrew places. The one on mattis has great deals on bulk grain and friar tuck has awesome selection on the specialties. But if I don't need something today, I like to go to AHS.

 

[Sir Humpsalot]

I get quotes from LHBS on bulk grain... 50-55 lb sacks. Truthfully, the mail order places delivering direct to your door can't compete with the LHBS that's tacking your order along with his.

 

[skinfiddler]

LHBS charges $95/50lb sack. Hops for 4.50/oz (if all you're getting is hops and not a kit).

As business owners I want them to be free to get what they can. As a buyer I want to be free to find ways to get it cheaper and let that LHBS know it.

I would also like to see the incentive stopped for farmers to rip out their (name the other grain) and replace it with corn.

I too would like to get in on a bulk buy. (Any Central Ohio folks game?)

So far when I buy bulk I buy from Listermann in Cincinnati who sell the same bag for $70 shipped, (free shipping on orders over $55 east of the Miss.)

 

[Chris_Dog]

I think loyalty to a certain supplier has to be a two way street. The vendor has to do what he can to control costs or I will go elsewhere. The service level of the LHBS adds value (or should) to the product. You as the consumer have to decide if the added value is worth the added cost.

I know I wouldn't buy grain that is so far over the markets price regardless of the shop owners situation.

 

[FSR402]

I feel bad for those of you that have a crappy LHBS and HAVE to order online. I have a few small places near me but I only go to one of them.
They have enough beer there that I could drink a different beer every day for a few years and never have the same one twice.
They stock an asston of grain, yeast and hops. Base grain runs $.90-1.20/pound and speciality malts are $1.79/pound. You can buy most grain by the once if you want to or the speciality malts are by the pound. You can also buy by the sack at $40 for a sack of pale 2-row. Also they give a 10% off anything for brewing if you are a member of a local homebrew club which I am. If I had free time I would get a part time job there just so I could spend more time there.

 

[Chriso]

I wish ours *had* part-time jobs so I could get one there. It's just the owner, no one else.

 

[bigben]

Apparently, if a store owner just wants to plain old make more money, he's a ******. It's gotta be a "valid" reason! VALID!!!! And wanting to increase profits is apparently not valid.

To take his comment a step further...we need a valid reason why the price went up, or we won't shop there

 

[Bobby_M]

I will support a local shop and pay a slight bit more to do so but the product better be just as good or better and the service I get MUST be better. If I go to the LHBS and complain that I'm paying a 30%+ premium over the SHIPPED price via mailorder and they get smug and defensive, I'm gone. Even with my homebrewclub's 10% discount, they're still a little higher on a sack of grain than I'd pay via shipment. The rub is that I'd spend $10 more in gas to get there and back.

In any case, if I do my comparison shopping and find that their premium price is not worth it to me, I will go elsewhere. In no circumstance would I accuse them of being poor businesspeople or gouging. They're just not competitive enough for me.

 

[mot]

I have two of the main brew stores about 20 minutes away from my place...One has great prices with the shortage the other is very inflated. These are very popular brew stores across the country and one is much cheaper

 

[Chriso]

And if the one that is much cheaper would only run flat-rate like their competitors, then they'd be my new cheapest source. I still spend about 1/3 of my homebrew dollars there though, with the other 2/3 being split between Austin and my lhbs.

 

[BrewBrain]

I will support a local shop and pay a slight bit more to do so but the product better be just as good or better and the service I get MUST be better. If I go to the LHBS and complain that I'm paying a 30%+ premium over the SHIPPED price via mailorder and they get smug and defensive, I'm gone. Even with my homebrewclub's 10% discount, they're still a little higher on a sack of grain than I'd pay via shipment. The rub is that I'd spend $10 more in gas to get there and back.

In any case, if I do my comparison shopping and find that their premium price is not worth it to me, I will go elsewhere. In no circumstance would I accuse them of being poor businesspeople or gouging. They're just not competitive enough for me.

I agree with this. I enjoy having a good, friendly LHBS at my disposal, so I support it and pay a little more than I have to. I get the difference back in convenience as their prices are certainly not at "gouge" level. I'll soon be paying for a deep freeze conversion by paying a little extra for the plumbing supplies, but I consider it worth it in the long run.

This would change if they were asking $3 for a pound of grain

 

[drayman86]

Here's how cool my LHBS is....

It's associated/adjacent to a brewery (owned by the same folks), and I was in the pub last week draining an IPA with the owner while trying to reformulate my weekend recipes based on the hops the HBS currently had in stock. The owner asked me what I was doing and when I told him, he suggested I put together a hops "wish list", and he'd release a few boxes of maybe three or four popular varieties (20 lbs/box) from the brewery to the adjacent LHBS.

I'll never buy anywhere else BUT my LHBS.

 

[Bill1968]

I don't think "gouge" is a good word for the higher prices. Almost every price on everything I use daily has gone up. Power, water, gas, food, soon my taxes. Break down what it costs you per bottle of brewed beer now compaired to the lower price. I'll know it's less than 10 cents per bottle.

Brother, can you spare a dime?

 

[olllllo]

I'm pretty cynical about corporate America, but LHBS are small businesses.

I feel pretty confident in saying that NO ONE is getting crazy rich running such a place and any recent gains gotten (again, which I question is occuring at this level) probably do nothing to offset some pretty lean times.

After all, why do you think these guys are so cranky?

 

[Cakehole]

The LHBS buys in half-pallets because they're tight on storage space. i can't blame 'im. if he bought a full pallet, it would never sell, and spoil.)

Have you considered talking to the owner of the LHBS and offering to purchase the other half of a pallet so both of you can benefit from a bulk purchase? You would get a half pallet for yourself and the LHBS store would get the other half of what I assume is a normal order for them. Perhaps the 2 of you working as a team would see a lower price than the LHBS owner only buying a half pallet.

You support him and get bulk grain for yourself....

Just my thoughts.

Cake

 

[wildwest450]

Jeebus, I have never seen a thread beat a dead horse so bad. Either buy crap locally or don't.