Is using caramel in wort taboo?

[BrewDoc_Md]

At one point in his book "Brew Like a Monk", the author suggests home brewed Belgians lack the complexity of Abbey brewed beers because we lack/rarely use many of their secret ingredients/techniques. One flavor he mentioned our home brews lack is the caramel complexity. sure enough, I've never seen caramel mentioned in any recipe so far (as a sugar, not the result of grain-based flavors). Why not, it's just cooked sugar, right? Is there an obvious reason it's not used in more recipes?

So I'm thinking, why can't I take a cup to a half pound of corn sugar, cook it with a little water, make a caramel like substance and add it to the wort, to give it that special je nous se qua? Since I forgot to do this when I made my Chimay-like brew this past Saturday, can I make caramel and add it to the fermentor tonight? It was still bubbling this morning, though not nearly as much as this weekend. I'm not out to boost gravity so much as am just adding flavor.

 

[Tenchiro]

I think just adding caramel would result in a most non-caramel like flavor, as the sugars would ferment out. Simply using 40L crystal may do more to impart the flavor you are looking for.

I have heard of Scottish brewers dripping wort into a hot kettle to caramelize it before brewing. http://www.babblebelt.com/newboard/thread.html?tid=1108752780&th=1196715997&pg=9&tpg=1&add=1 has some more info on the process.

 

[niquejim]

Don't put it in water, just put the sugar in a foil pan and put into an oven(toaster oven works the best) at 350 for 5-15 minutes or until it is the color you want( the sugar melts when heated). I use it in my Fullers' Clone(Full Owl in my recipe pulldown). The caramel flavor really comes through.

 

[jmulligan]

...that special je nous se qua?

It's "je ne sais quoi".

Sorry, I hate when people are all anal and correct other peoples' writing, but in case you ever want to use that phrase again, there you go.

Can't help you on the caramel other than to second the thought that the sugars are just going to go away - I would try amending your recipe next time with more crystal, as Tenchiro suggested.

 

[Donasay]

saying it that way has a certain je ne sais quoi or as the french would say a certain I don't know what.

 

[newell456]

Since I forgot to do this when I made my Chimay-like brew this past Saturday, can I make caramel and add it to the fermentor tonight? It was still bubbling this morning, though not nearly as much as this weekend.

The article below recomends adding honey (after heating it) at high krausen to get more of the honey taste. So, if you can add honey during fermentation, I see no reason why you can't add the caramel. But I like to try a light hand when trying something new like that. Better to get a hint of it and think you should have added more than to have too much of a good thing in your brew.

http://***********/feature/924.html

 

[BrewDoc_Md]

Don't put it in water, just put the sugar in a foil pan and put into an oven(toaster oven works the best) at 350 for 5-15 minutes or until it is the color you want.

Interesting approach. I'll give it a shot. how much do you use?

Does it matter if you use corn sugar or regular table sugar? I just thought of corn sugar initially since everything you read concerning brewing says table sugar gives an unwanted cidery taste when added to wort. But, maybe when going for those heat-induced warmer flavors, the sugar source doesn't really matter (like the heated honey guy suggests).

 

[The Blow Leprechaun]

The sugars that are caramelized become significantly less fermentable, so I think you would still get a significant "caramel" flavor from them.

I would use table sugar, as that's what caramel is generally made from. Corn sugar doesn't have much flavor of its own, I don't know what it tastes like caramelized - you could always make some caramel with it and see how it tastes.

Saranac makes a Caramel Porter that's something of a guilty pleasure for me. It doesn't have much beer flavor, but it sure does taste delicious.

 

[brewt00l]

At one point in his book "Brew Like a Monk", the author suggests home brewed Belgians lack the complexity of Abbey brewed beers because we lack/rarely use many of their secret ingredients/techniques. One flavor he mentioned our home brews lack is the caramel complexity. sure enough, I've never seen caramel mentioned in any recipe so far (as a sugar, not the result of grain-based flavors). Why not, it's just cooked sugar, right? Is there an obvious reason it's not used in more recipes?

I can't say that I really took that message away from the book...if anything, he really went to great lengths to demystify the trappist/belgian mystique IMHO.

IIRC In the discussion on dark syrup, he discusses the difference between it and caramelized sugar...I'll have to check my book when I get home.

http://www.brewlikeamonk.com/2006/04/24/belgian-caramelized-syrup-now-available-in-america/

My LHBS carries this product..

Here are some interesting brewing sugar taste comparisons and a dark syrup diy:

http://madfermentationist.blogspot.com/2007/12/11-differnet-sugars-1-great-tasting.html
http://madfermentationist.blogspot.com/2007/10/belgian-sugar-experiment-round-2_29.html
http://madfermentationist.blogspot.com/2007/10/homemade-candi-syrup.html
http://madfermentationist.blogspot.com/2007/02/belgian-sugar-experiment.html

 

[olllllo]

If I'm not mistaken, Stan offers up Randy Moshers technique for creating a carmelized sugar in the very same chapter. It is detailed in full in Radical Brewing.

 

[BrewDoc_Md]

If I'm not mistaken, Stan offers up Randy Moshers technique for creating a carmelized sugar in the very same chapter. It is detailed in full in Radical Brewing.

Cool, yet another book I need to read.

 

[brewt00l]

If I'm not mistaken, Stan offers up Randy Moshers technique for creating a carmelized sugar in the very same chapter. It is detailed in full in Radical Brewing.

yup and IIRC, this is the same thing that's in BLAM:

http://www.franklinbrew.org/brewinfo/candi_sugar.html
"Making Belgian Candi Syrup
by Randy Mosher

Just take a pound of plain corn syrup (make sure it's the kind without vanilla added) and heat it over medium heat in a heavy saucepan with 9 grams of ammonium carbonate (sold as leavening in Middle Eastern markets). I have also gotten good results with diammonium phosphate yeast nutrient. It will boil, and eventually start to darken. Every now and then remove a drop or two and drip it onto aluminum foil to cool, then taste. Stop as soon as the desired color is reached, and carefully add water to mix it back to the original consistency.

You can also caramelize honey using this same method. "

 

[BrewDoc_Md]

http://www.brewlikeamonk.com/2006/04/24/belgian-caramelized-syrup-now-available-in-america/

My LHBS carries this product..

My LHBS also has this stuff...just got it not too long ago, I think. I thought I remember reading somewhere that the rock candi was better than the syrups, but this stuff looks genuine. May be worth a shot. Looks like I need to brew many more Belgians to try all these options out! Poor me, poor me

 

[Sagamore]

I dissolved 4 lbs of granulated cane sugar in .5 liter of water, heated it to 300F (150C) and held it there till it turned a nice deep reddish color. Poured it onto a flat cake pan to cool. The resulting stuff did not crystalize, was very brittle and tasted a bit different from the granulated. Put it in a batch of syrup-kit pilsner as the "additional fermentables." The beer was slow to smooth out in conditioning but after about 3 weeks it did it was very good. A bit strong though with 4 lbs of extra sugar in there.

I am making a new batch this weekend with 1.5 kilos (3.3 lbs) of Munton's Hopped Amber malt extract and Danstar Nottingham yeast. I'll put in 2 lbs of invert sugar and see how it works.

 

[Pete08]

I'm thinking of a Caramel Cream Vanilla Porter and want a pronounced caramel flavor. My top choices are to caramelize sugar, or reduce the wort. What the opinions? Would a pint of reduced wort be adequate for a 1.070 porter? I guess I could try it, maybe add caramelized sugar in the fermenter if it isn't enough. No crystal malt if using caramel, I gather?