Is this Cider dead?

[moment.mist]

Hi,

I am in my second fermentation of this Cider (almost a month old). The apple juice was freshly squeezed store bought and I have sanitized the equipment and carboy using starsan.

As you can see from the images below that something is off with one of the carboy. There is a white foam on the incomplete carboy whereas the others are completely fine.

Can you look at the photos and recommend what to do? Its a bit weird that the others survived whereas this one seems to be having a problem.

Would appreciate your help!

 

[CKuhns]

Great pics. (That helps a bunch) It looks to me like one of the strains of lactobacteria. Here is a good article covering many of them.

https://pricklycider.com/2021/02/06/bacteria-and-hard-cider-its-not-all-bad/

 

[moment.mist]

Great pics. (That helps a bunch) It looks to me like one of the strains of lactobacteria. Here is a good article covering many of them.

https://pricklycider.com/2021/02/06/bacteria-and-hard-cider-its-not-all-bad/

Thanks for the tip!

I looked into the link and am still a bit confused on what I should do next.

The text below indicates that it could be a normal thing and that there is not much that I can do.

Has this ever happened to you? If so, it would be great if you can share how you tackled it.

'Lactobacillaceae: You will see these bacteria referred to as Lactobacillus, Lactic Acid Bacteria, or LAB. You find these throughout the process of hard cider making. It’s on the flower, the fruit, and in the cider. It enables the conversion of malic acid to lactic acid during MLF. It also creates many chemical reactions during maturation. Some of these may create undesirable flavors and aromas but many are positive reactions. The results is many compounds that together can form complex aromas and flavors.'

 

[CKuhns]

Yep, somewhat normal. I have had one batch a few years back that developed it. I let it ferment then racked leaving the lees down to about an inch from the top.

Tasted significantly "different" than my "normal" cider, not bad just different. I didnt particularly care for it but my adult children seemed to like it well enough.

Some folks on the forum deliberately use lacto's to ferment their ciders.

 

[moment.mist]

Got it! Sounds like it's not unhealthy to keep it.
I wonder how different it tasted. It could be that the taste profile could be pleasant if adult kids like it given that their palet might not be as developed as yours (assumption).

In my case this hard cider is already racked and I'm planning to keep it there for 6 months.
Therefore I might rack it one more time and get rid of this layer as I don't want it to impact the flavor a lot.

Or maybe turn it to vinegar given that there is a big gap for oxygen. Still undecided.

 

[CKuhns]

Both are good options. My batch was 5 gallons so vinegar was not really an option. Honestly didnt even think of it at the time. However, the flavor probably would have worked well for it.

 

[CKuhns]

One additional note. Be sure to sanitize or sterilize your equipment really well. This likes to hang around.

 

[moment.mist]

One additional note. Be sure to sanitize or sterilize your equipment really well. This likes to hang around.

Gotta cover the basics real good!

 

[JAReeves]

We only wild-ferment our cider so we have separate airlocks, tubing, etc. for all of that. Non-wild beers and wines have their own separate items. Just a good safety precaution. That is a beautiful pellicle, by the way. If you like the flavor of the cider, save some of the pellicle, cider, and sediment. You can inoculate the next batch with the bugs and get similar results.

 

[moment.mist]

We only wild-ferment our cider so we have separate airlocks, tubing, etc. for all of that. Non-wild beers and wines have their own separate items. Just a good safety precaution. That is a beautiful pellicle, by the way. If you like the flavor of the cider, save some of the pellicle, cider, and sediment. You can inoculate the next batch with the bugs and get similar results.

I am loving that I am getting to know a new community of those who support keeping the pellicule and using it for next batches.

I think I will do that for experimentation purposes and find out the taste differences by the end of the 6 months.

I have a few questions though.
1-Do you recommend keeping it in as is for the coming 6 months and removing it at the end for saving purposes?
And do I save in a glass jar? Does it get bad after a certain time or it doesn't matter?

 

[JAReeves]

This may not be professional SOP, but after I move the cider/sour ale to its next spot (keg, barrel, carboy), I swirl the heck out of the fermenter and scoop out a sanitized jar worth of dregs. Make sure everything touching the dregs has been sanitized, including you. Then I cap it and put it in the fridge. It’s so low tech as to be embarrassing.

 

[moment.mist]

This may not be professional SOP, but after I move the cider/sour ale to its next spot (keg, barrel, carboy), I swirl the heck out of the fermenter and scoop out a sanitized jar worth of dregs. Make sure everything touching the dregs has been sanitized, including you. Then I cap it and put it in the fridge. It’s so low tech as to be embarrassing.

I'm very basic with my setup, therefore your approach is spot on!

 

[AzOr]

Keep it and taste it. If it has a nice funk to it but is too strong, try bench blending with your “clean” cider.
Once you get your ratio to where you like it, pasteurize it by heating in a sauce pan and add it to the rest of your cider. Then bottle as you normally do.

I won a gold medal by fermenting cherry/apple cider with Sourbatch and blending. My ratio was 1 part funky cider to 4 parts clean cider. I heated 1 gallon of funky cider, let it cool, then added to 4 gallons of regular cider.

I backsweetened, kegged and bottled.
It’s one of my favorite recipes.

 

[AzOr]

I should also mention that this type of hybrid funky cider loves a little more sweetness. Most of my ciders are backsweetened too .004ish but these taste better in the .008-.010 range. At least to my taste buds.

 

[moment.mist]

That's a great idea! I'm usually worried to do these kind of tests since I don't have big quantities of hard cider,. Therefore, I'm worried to mess up what I'm working on.
But I think the idea of experimenting should overcome the idea of making basic cider as that's what matters to me at the very end, at least for me.

Appreciate everyone's support over here.

My first batch (drank it already) was a sour batch that I infused at later stage with strawberries, blackberries and cranberries. Basically making it a bit lighter, sweeter and more acidic to work with women as a summer drink. I think it was a bit too sour for their taste.

Gonna add some funk and sugar to the equation now, check what it gives