Is there a secret to making a big, chewy stout?

[BrookdaleBrew]

Big stouts seem to be my white whale as far as brewing goes. I've brewed a few and none have come out like I wanted them to. I'm going to attempt to brew another one soon and I think I've got my water problem under control, but another issue I had with my last batch was lack of body. I want something thick and chewy like Bell's Expedition or Alesmith's Speedway. Is there some secret to this?

Obviously I realize a higher FG is going to give me a fuller bodied beer, so I'm hoping the insane amout of specialty and crystal malt I'm using will give me that. Wouldn't boiling my first runnings for a while before I sparge also contribute to body and mouth feel?

 

[Beezy]

No clue but I am going to sub to this thread because I strive to be a stout master someday.

 

[rycov]

i think adjusting your mash temperature will give you more or less body, as it makes the wort more or less fermentable. i'm no pro, but i'm gonna take a stab and say a higher mash temp will give you more body, and a lower one will dry your beer out? some one correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[remilard]

Rye/oats. Mash rest at 160 F for about half an hour (after the rest of your mash, this liberates and solubilizes glycoproteins).

 

[rycov]

remilard, is what i said right, or close? i've been kinda having the opposite problem. my beers have been a slightly sweet, and a little too full bodied. my first thought is to mash a little lower next time and see if that helps me out, what do you think?

 

[BrookdaleBrew]

i think adjusting your mash temperature will give you more or less body, as it makes the wort more or less fermentable. i'm no pro, but i'm gonna take a stab and say a higher mash temp will give you more body, and a lower one will dry your beer out? some one correct me if i'm wrong.

That is a good point. I usually mash my bigger beers at around 150 just because when you're dealing with an OG over 1.100 you usually want the most fermentable wort possible but maybe I'll try this next one at 152 or 154 and see what happens.

 

[KoedBrew]

I don't have all the answers for this, but yeah higher temperatures of the mash will significantly help "body-up" your stout...I would prefer that personally over a bunch of crystal malts that tend to just sweeten the beer.

I did a split mash on a stout (because I didn't think the grain would fit), but I did one half at 151 F and one at 156 F. It had a pretty good amount of body...without the whole thing being body and still allowing for some good alcohol production.

Also some maltodextrin, carapils, and I have heard that Cold steeping some of your specialty grains can help with the flavor, but not sure about the body I am going to cold steep half of the specialty grains on my next stout.

Good luck

 

[BrewWhat]

Most Imperial Stouts don't use black patent malts and surprisingly less dark malts than you would think. Here is the grain bill for my Imperial Stout, which is a rip from an Old Rasputin clone with some minor modifications.


Amount Item Type % or IBU
16 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 87.07 %
1 lbs Caramel Malt - 40L (Briess) (40.0 SRM) Grain 5.44 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 2.72 %
8.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 2.72 %
6.0 oz Roasted Barley (Briess) (300.0 SRM) Grain 2.04 %

Mashed at 156* for a little over an hour.

 

[BrookdaleBrew]

Rye/oats. Mash rest at 160 F for about half an hour (after the rest of your mash, this liberates and solubilizes glycoproteins).

I could just use instant quaker oats, right? How much would you suggest adding to the mash?

 

[KoedBrew]

Oh I forgot remilard is also correct on the rye/oats! especially flaked

 

[remilard]

remilard, is what i said right, or close? i've been kinda having the opposite problem. my beers have been a slightly sweet, and a little too full bodied. my first thought is to mash a little lower next time and see if that helps me out, what do you think?

Yes, if you want a big (mouthfeel) beer you should mash high.

For reducing sweetness you have three routes and should probably take a little from each rather than all from one. You can mash lower (I'm skeptical this does much to make a dry beer for normal gravity beers), you can use less crystal/aromatic/melanoiden/honey malt, and you can choose a more attenuative yeast. I get the best attenuation pitching low and letting the beer free rise and then forcing the temperature to stay high rather than naturally dropping. It helps to have a 2 stage controller and all that but you can really accomplish this by chilling down to the low 60s and pitching in a room that is low 60s (like a basement) and then moving to a warmer area (upstairs) when the krausen drops. I can temp control 2 beers but I tend to have more going if I get the brewing bug or leading up to NHC. I can get very good results by moving from the basement to upstairs. A little extra effort, but it works.

Alternately you could do the ice bath thing and just pull it out when the krausen drops. The trick is to avoid the natural temperature drop that occurs when activity slows, keep it warm for an extra couple of days. This also helps to produce a beer that is free from "green" flavors in most cases about a week after you pitch the yeast.

 

[BrookdaleBrew]

Most Imperial Stouts don't use black patent malts and surprisingly less dark malts than you would think. Here is the grain bill for my Imperial Stout, which is a rip from an Old Rasputin clone with some minor modifications.


Amount Item Type % or IBU
16 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 87.07 %
1 lbs Caramel Malt - 40L (Briess) (40.0 SRM) Grain 5.44 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 2.72 %
8.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 2.72 %
6.0 oz Roasted Barley (Briess) (300.0 SRM) Grain 2.04 %

Mashed at 156* for a little over an hour.

Old Raspy really isn't what I'm going for. In my opinion that is a thinner bodied imperial stout. Don't get me wrong, it's a great beer, just not what I'm trying to accomplish.

 

[mabrungard]

OK, the secret to great body in any beer is a small addition of either flaked barley or flaked wheat to the grist. At about 4%, I can tell you that your head will be rocky and the body medium to full. The balancing act is to limit this addition to create the level of body you want in the beer while keeping the beer clarity good. Both flaked barley and flaked wheat can increase haze in your beer, reducing the clarity.

Many brewers add flaked wheat to all of their grists to give them that shot of body they want (Tasty McDole is one and I know that Firestone Walker does also).

Enjoy

 

[davefleck]

A lot of right answers here. It's what I love about brewing. Soo many variables and choices!

 

[remilard]

OK, the secret to great body in any beer is a small addition of either flaked barley or flaked wheat to the grist. At about 4%, I can tell you that your head will be rocky and the body medium to full. The balancing act is to limit this addition to create the level of body you want in the beer while keeping the beer clarity good. Both flaked barley and flaked wheat can increase haze in your beer, reducing the clarity.

Many brewers add flaked wheat to all of their grists to give them that shot of body they want (Tasty McDole is one and I know that Firestone Walker does also).

Enjoy

I agree with your advice to restrain unmalted grains for clarity reasons, but if you are doing it right your bad ass imperial stout will be dark enough that the clarity cannot be assessed (other than by a BJCP judge with a good flashlight of course). Also, IME, malted rye (for whatever reason) is about as good as unmalted barley, oats or wheat.

 

[yodalegomaster]

The real issue is how do you get the dextrin's into the beer (that's the Chewy part), you have two ways, use lots of caraplis malt or add malodextrin powder. Then you have to match that with your mash temp. I can give you the high level, you can't go above. Which is 3/4 lbs maltodextrin in a 5 gallon batch. At that level you will be able to taste the dextrins( that is not very good). As an example I use 1/2 pound of maltodextrins in 10 gallon batches, with a 149 F mash.

 

[mabrungard]

I agree with your advice to restrain unmalted grains for clarity reasons, but if you are doing it right your bad ass imperial stout will be dark enough that the clarity cannot be assessed (other than by a BJCP judge with a good flashlight of course). Also, IME, malted rye (for whatever reason) is about as good as unmalted barley, oats or wheat.

You are correct, but there can be a taste impact with the Rye. If you don't want that Rye flavor in a particular beer, then the other options tend to be cleaner. The oats may lend an oiliness or slickness that that is not desired in a particular style. Barley is the most neutrally flavored and Wheat can provide a crisp graininess that can be an asset in some styles.

 

[iijakii]

Oats are nice, but also: a small amount of wheat malt reeaaallly helps.

 

[korrosion]

I guarantee this recipe will get you a big bold thick stout. I have brewed it several times and it has taken a silver medal. I have also oaked this with bourbon soaked oak chips.


Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 11.00 gal
Boil Size: 13.25 gal
Estimated OG: 1.074 SG
Estimated Color: 50.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 73.9 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
0.50 lb Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) Adjunct 1.49 %
23.29 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 69.19 %
3.06 lb Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 9.08 %
2.35 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 6.98 %
1.41 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4.19 %
1.41 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 4.19 %
1.41 lb Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 4.19 %
0.24 lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 0.70 %
2.00 oz Warrior [15.00 %] (90 min) Hops 57.8 IBU
2.00 oz Williamette [4.70 %] (30 min) Hops 9.2 IBU
2.00 oz Northern Brewer [10.60 %] (5 min) Hops 6.8 IBU
2 Pkgs English Ale (White Labs #WLP002) [Starter Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 33.67 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
75 min Mash In Add 33.67 qt of water at 164.2 F 150.0 F