is the AHA a scam??

[brewbama]

I chose not to renew my membership a few years ago for several reasons. I know many here won’t agree and that’s OK. I’m not mad at the AHA or anyone that disagrees. In fact I post on their forum often. I just chose to walk from membership and here’s why:

1. The BA is a trade group (aka political lobby). AHA falls under that umbrella as an advocate for the HomeBrew community. One of the advantages of the 501(c)(6) tax status is that it allows organizations to engage in unlimited amounts of lobbying. I don’t want or need to be a member of a political lobby. I likewise am not a member of the Army Aviation Association of America, the Association of the United States Army (or AARP ) for the same reason.

2. They don’t follow their own by-laws. Members are supposed to be aware of what happens at meetings thru published minutes. After bringing this to mgmt attention, instead of using the opportunity to communicate with their members to demonstrate the actions they are taking on their behalf, they grudgingly published minutes that were a useless outline as zero source of information. Once. They haven’t published minutes before or after that one useless time.

3. The Governing Committee is powerless. Members are made to feel as if they are voting for representation in meetings where decisions are made and issues resolved. From the clarification they issued, that is a misunderstanding.

4. Conference presentations are a sales event. That’s OK as long as that’s what you’re looking for. While it’s true some presentations are given by enthusiastic homebrewers not trying to sell something, many more are simply selling the latest book, software, product, etc. The best presentations IMO are from those not selling something and are trying to pass good information for the good of the community.

5. Likewise, Zymurgy is a series of advertisements with a few beer articles thrown in between, along with lists of competition winners or upcoming events that require membership. After asked for recommendations for improvement, I suggested a Consumer Reports-style or America Test Kitchen-style equipment comparison series in order to help members navigate the pros and cons of similar pieces of equipment. I was told they can’t do that because they may offend advertisers if their equipment doesn’t come out on top. Advertisers pay the bills. I understand you can’t publish a magazine without cash but are they here for members or advertisers?

6. If clubs and competitions didn’t require members to also be a member of AHA, I imagine the membership roles would be much much smaller. If you truly want to know who is the best home brewer, or want local home brewers to join your club, why limit membership to AHA members? I get it, membership numbers sell lobby influence. But if I don’t want to be a member of AHA I can’t be a member of a local club? Weird.

7. Despite having ~25% of membership by the published AHA demographics map, the in-person conference hasn’t been held in the South for more than a decade. They tried Nashville after a decade but COVID canceled it. NE, N, PNW, and W are well represented in past and future conferences. FLA was over a decade ago. Reasoning has been the various laws that prohibit the event. I thought this was a lobby organization. So, lobby to get the laws changed or a variance to allow the event.

…just my thoughts.

 

[matt_m]

6. If clubs and competitions didn’t require members to also be a member of AHA, I imagine the membership roles would be much much smaller. If you truly want to know who is the best home brewer, or want local home brewers to join your club, why limit membership to AHA members? I get it, membership numbers sell lobby influence. But if I don’t want to be a member of AHA I can’t be a member of a local club? Weird.

My understanding is some clubs require this due to the insurance benefits of ensuring at least 75% of club members are AHA members.

 

[Bad Bubba]

just saw the price of the VIRTUAL conference price ,,,, wow!!!!!!! count me out.

everything these people do is to make $$$$ ... even things to ""support"" the community is all $$$ focused ,,, during reeally low point of homebrewing what did they do
i went to check on there income by charity navigator but they arent listed. turns out not a nonprofit ive drove by there building ... people cant even afford a house in boulder

is the whole thing a scam? what would this hobby be like if the group people thought was a nonprofit was a nonprofit really working hard to promote homebrewing

To answer the original poster's question - No the AHA is not a scam and does not meet the definition of a scam.

I have to question this person's motives and agenda for posting this (they are welcome to respond) - first post ever, no introduction, and bam! A drive by hit.


To address some of the comments -
The poster seems to be appalled by the price of the conference - assuming it is Homebrewcon - the value of these things is different to each consumer but IMO $139 is not outrageous. And if you do not see the value then don't buy.

They are not a charity (not do they purport to be one) and so would not be on charity tracker. His claim the AHA is not a not-for-profit is false.

He (or she) talks about money focus, as someone who has been associated with industry groups and Charities, yes there is a constant need to bring money thru the doors. There are salaries to be paid, phones to be answered, books to be published, etc. It all takes money.

The poster talks about driving by the AHA office building implying something (trying to figure it out). I have walked by the AHA offices numerous times and I doubt they own the building - it is a small office building that houses numerous small businesses. Nothing extravagant about it.

The comment about people in Boulder cannot buy a house - what does that have to with the mission of the AHA?

Anyway, I probably should not of contributed to the tread but I was offended by the manner and intent of the post. If you want to have a discussion on the merits of AHA there are better ways to do it other than making accusations.

 

[MaxStout]

I chose not to renew my membership a few years ago for several reasons. I know many here won’t agree and that’s OK. I’m not mad at the AHA or anyone that disagrees. In fact I post on their forum often. I just chose to walk from membership and here’s why:

1. The BA is a trade group (aka political lobby). AHA falls under that umbrella as an advocate for the HomeBrew community. One of the advantages of the 501(c)(6) tax status is that it allows organizations to engage in unlimited amounts of lobbying. I don’t want or need to be a member of a political lobby. I likewise am not a member of the Army Aviation Association of America, the Association of the United States Army (or AARP ) for the same reason.

2. They don’t follow their own by-laws. Members are supposed to be aware of what happens at meetings thru published minutes. After bringing this to mgmt attention, instead of using the opportunity to communicate with their members to demonstrate the actions they are taking on their behalf, they grudgingly published minutes that were a useless outline as zero source of information. Once. They haven’t published minutes before or after that one useless time.

3. The Governing Committee is powerless. Members are made to feel as if they are voting for representation in meetings where decisions are made and issues resolved. From the clarification they issued, that is a misunderstanding.

4. Conference presentations are a sales event. That’s OK as long as that’s what you’re looking for. While it’s true some presentations are given by enthusiastic homebrewers not trying to sell something, many more are simply selling the latest book, software, product, etc. The best presentations IMO are from those not selling something and are trying to pass good information for the good of the community.

5. Likewise, Zymurgy is a series of advertisements with a few beer articles thrown in between, along with lists of competition winners or upcoming events that require membership. After asked for recommendations for improvement, I suggested a Consumer Reports-style or America Test Kitchen-style equipment comparison series in order to help members navigate the pros and cons of similar pieces of equipment. I was told they can’t do that because they may offend advertisers if their equipment doesn’t come out on top. Advertisers pay the bills. I understand you can’t publish a magazine without cash but are they here for members or advertisers?

6. If clubs and competitions didn’t require members to also be a member of AHA, I imagine the membership roles would be much much smaller. If you truly want to know who is the best home brewer, or want local home brewers to join your club, why limit membership to AHA members? I get it, membership numbers sell lobby influence. But if I don’t want to be a member of AHA I can’t be a member of a local club? Weird.

7. Despite having ~25% of membership by the published AHA demographics map, the in-person conference hasn’t been held in the South for more than a decade. They tried Nashville after a decade but COVID canceled it. NE, N, PNW, and W are well represented in past and future conferences. FLA was over a decade ago. Reasoning has been the various laws that prohibit the event. I thought this was a lobby organization. So, lobby to get the laws changed or a variance to allow the event.

…just my thoughts.

All good points. Good to see an articulated set of counterpoints.

Your point #5 really stood out for me. I too would like to see some critical, unbiased reviews of gear. AHA has some of the biggest names in homebrewing, and they would be best postioned to put gear through their paces. But since AHA receives a lot of ad revenue from mfrs., even if they did have reviews, there would likely be some editorial "toning down" of the articles. Consumers Union does not accept paid advertising, and therefore has little internal or external influences to soften their reviews. They can be candid, and they are. That's why I never trust reviews from mags like Car and Driver, Motor Trend, etc. No one on the writing staff is going to be too daring in their reviews (nor will editorial staff allow it) when those companies are paying their salaries.

To me, #1 is a feature, not a bug. I WANT an organization like AHA to be involved in political lobbying on the behalf of homebrewer interests. Take away the advocacy and basically you just have a "club." But I get that some consider the political nature of such organizations as unpalatable.

#2 and #3 I don't care about; #4 sort of dovetails into #5, as it is part of their ad revenue stream. #6 is due to local clubs getting AHA insurance coverage; and #7 is a non-issue to me, due to the ease of air travel.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

@brewbama, like @MaxStout said: "All good points. Good to see an articulated set of counterpoints."

 

[bwible]

I know, by the time it gets really good I'll be dead. But it will still taste good even after a few years.

I thought about it, if it were legal. Even if there were a class or something you had to take to teach people how not to poison themselves or blow themselves up. You can buy the attachments for a Grainfather, robobrew, foundry, etc. I would like to try it. I’d probably go with the pot still option vs column still. I have a large molasses supplier that is an easy drive from here and I’d be intersted in trying to make rum. Thats fairly quick turnaround. Sure, everybody wants to make bourbon and scotch. But those do take longer to age. In 12 years I’ll be 73. So it really doesn’t make sense for me. It also doesn’t age the same in small quantities at home as it does in the giant barrels in the rickhouses at Jim Beam. I’m not so much interested in making vodka or gin.

 

[cmac62]

I will not be de- turd

Jay, this attitude could cause you some significant issues in a day or two. LOL

 

[bracconiere]

PS: And a big thank you to President Jimmy Carter

+1

he smiles at me every pour!

(Senator Cranston was the guy who actually wrote the bill, figured i'd have to give credit where it was due, jimmy really just signed it)

Who has the time to make that??!!
View attachment 731322

i've got a 13 year old bottle of brandy? it will be it's 14th birthday this 4th of july!

 

[brewbama]

I thought about it, if it were legal. Even if there were a class or something you had to take to teach people how not to poison themselves or blow themselves up. You can buy the attachments for a Grainfather, robobrew, foundry, etc. I would like to try it. I’d probably go with the pot still option vs column still. I have a large molasses supplier that is an easy drive from here and I’d be intersted in trying to make rum. Thats fairly quick turnaround. Sure, everybody wants to make bourbon and scotch. But those do take longer to age. In 12 years I’ll be 73. So it really doesn’t make sense for me. It also doesn’t age the same in small quantities at home as it does in the giant barrels in the rickhouses at Jim Beam. I’m not so much interested in making vodka or gin.

there are faster options for brown water:

 

[shetc]

Full of weirdos

 

[Jako]

I know, by the time it gets really good I'll be dead. But it will still taste good even after a few years.

look guys, i just want to make some gin for the off times i don't want a beer. also very few will drink some gin it wont walk off.

 

[-Dan-]

That's what happens when you have themed booths or events ...

 

[cmac62]

look guys, i just want to make some gin for the off times i don't want a beer. also very few will drink some gin it wont walk off.

Gin you can make without a still, just soak the herbs in vodka. Of course it is not clear, but the taste is good.

 

[trboyden]

That's quite an exaggeration.

Have they put focus on diversity and inclusion? Yes, and IMO the hobby needs it (just like the craft brewing industry clearly does). Both homebrewing and the craft beer industry are not just "sausagefests", they are predominantly weisswurst.

Have they put more focus on that stuff than on brewing? Not even close. As in, not even remotely close.

You might have a case for commercial brewing (though I would argue minorities have a better chance at starting up given the subsidies available to them), but for homebrewing, there is zero barrier other than one's will to order the supplies and brew a batch. People are too quick to throw out the "need" for "diversity and inclusion" as a substitute for actually understanding societal problems, working towards a real solution, and not just regurgitating political propaganda.

 

[Barbarossa]

Despite some arguments to the contrary, the terms "nonprofit" and "not-for-profit" are synonymous. Basically, they are organizations that cannot distribute any financial surplus (profits) to shareholders, and thus benefit from certain tax exemptions. What some more narrowly call "nonprofits" are organizations classified as 501(c)(3) - in addition to not distributing profits, they are set up for charitable, educational, religious or scientific purposes. The AHA is listed as a 501(c)(6), which is a category used for business leagues, chambers of commerce and other organizations that - despite their non-profit-distributing nature - are created to promote a trade, profession or commercial activity (i.e. homebrewing). They are not listed or rated by Charity Navigator because, as a 501(c)(6), their membership dues are considered business expenses, rather than charitable donations, and are not tax deductible. Yes, the AHA is legit; no, it is not a scam.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.us...nonprofit-vs-not-for-profit-vs-for-profit/amp
Might want to read this.

 

[Bad Bubba]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.us...nonprofit-vs-not-for-profit-vs-for-profit/amp
Might want to read this.

That is a bad article that is incorrect in some of it statements and published by an organization that should know better. Probably written by a staffer who lifted it from somewhere else. People confuse often repeated with well established. Not -for-profit and nonprofit are not really legal terms but descriptors, people use not-for-profit usually to mean non charity. I go to the tax code which has 29 different types of nonprofits which includes organizations that article calls a not for profit.
Funniest part of that article is saying that not for profits are run by volunteers - most 501(c)(6) organizations have employees (many well paid) and are self described not for profit.

 

[Barbarossa]

That is a bad article that is incorrect in some of it statements and published by an organization that should know better. Probably written by a staffer who lifted it from somewhere else. People confuse often repeated with well established. Not -for-profit and nonprofit are not really legal terms but descriptors, people use not-for-profit usually to mean non charity. I go to the tax code which has 29 different types of nonprofits which includes organizations that article calls a not for profit.
Funniest part of that article is saying that not for profits are run by volunteers - most 501(c)(6) organizations have employees (many well paid) and are self described not for profit.

Even wikipedia disagree with you. At this point, what is your purpose?

"Nonprofit and not-for-profit are terms that are used similarly, but do not mean the same thing. Both are organizations that do not make a profit, but may receive an income to sustain their missions. The income that nonprofit and not-for-profit organizations generate is used differently. Nonprofit organizations return any extra income to the organization. Not-for-profits use their excess money to pay their members who do work for them. Another difference between nonprofit organizations and not-for-profit organizations is their membership. Nonprofits have volunteers or employees who do not receive any money from the organization's fundraising efforts."

 

[trboyden]

Even wikipedia disagree with you. At this point, what is your purpose?

"Nonprofit and not-for-profit are terms that are used similarly, but do not mean the same thing. Both are organizations that do not make a profit, but may receive an income to sustain their missions. The income that nonprofit and not-for-profit organizations generate is used differently. Nonprofit organizations return any extra income to the organization. Not-for-profits use their excess money to pay their members who do work for them. Another difference between nonprofit organizations and not-for-profit organizations is their membership. Nonprofits have volunteers or employees who do not receive any money from the organization's fundraising efforts."

Wikipedia is a user contributed source of information and not necessarily a factual source of information. Definitions from IRS rule documents or an expert opinion from a tax professional would be examples of factual sources of information that could be relied upon. That said, all of this is irrelevant and is just splitting hairs, because at the end of the day 1) AHA is not a charity, 2) There is nothing that requires you to be a member. So, if one does not wish to contribute, don't, that's your choice to make. Just like changing the channel on the TV.

 

[goodolarchie]

Obviously not a scam. NHC pricing and AHA mission are completely separate issues. But the real question is the future relevance of the AHA in a diminished capacity of the BA? Is it just running homebrew conferences and being a requirement for competitions? I skim through Zymurgy sometimes but less and less so these days when there are resources like Scott Janish blog or MilkTheFunk. I always forget to use the discount, and during COVID it was never accepted for online pickup ordering, you have to be physically present.

Virtual NHC is probably overpriced for its target, I feel like $59 would be a sweet spot but they had to budget their costs and estimate attendee count. Professional conferences are a lot more but those actually help people's career (hint: it's about networking, not learning), I don't compare the two.

On the lobbying side, I know there were some laws about transporting and serving homebrew that were overturned somewhere in the south, North Carolina maybe? Personally I'd like to see the 200gallon limit for a two adult household lifted because I have to age and dump a lot of beer, barrels are a thing and they are big. But since there's no real enforcement or accounting of prodution it's not an actual issue. So what's left to lobby? I'd rather see interstate distribution laws get changed so people could buy the beer they want.

I'll keep renewing my AHA so long as I'm competing, or if NHC is in a city I want to visit. Nashville would have been fun.

 

[Bad Bubba]

Even wikipedia disagree with you. At this point, what is your purpose?

"Nonprofit and not-for-profit are terms that are used similarly, but do not mean the same thing. Both are organizations that do not make a profit, but may receive an income to sustain their missions. The income that nonprofit and not-for-profit organizations generate is used differently. Nonprofit organizations return any extra income to the organization. Not-for-profits use their excess money to pay their members who do work for them. Another difference between nonprofit organizations and not-for-profit organizations is their membership. Nonprofits have volunteers or employees who do not receive any money from the organization's fundraising efforts."

Wikipedia is one of the least reliable sources on the Internet. I could edit that today and change it. I could ask you your purpose. The first article you referenced said not for profits don’t have paid employees, and the wiki article you reference say not for profits use extra money to pay employees. They don’t seem to agree.

Most nonprofits are formed under a 501 code which defines their tax exemption status and if donations and fees are tax deductible. Pub 557 does not use either term, nonprofit or not for profit.
My purpose is I hate misinformation being being put out as fact.

 

[mongoose33]

The AHA is not a non-profit organization. It is a not for profit organization, which is different.

In any case, it's not a scam. It has thousands of members who enjoy the benefits of membership. But if you don't like what AHA is doing, perhaps you could just calm down, ignore them and move along.

I was a member for a while, decided I wasn't getting enough benefit to make it worth the cost, and stopped.

Pretty easy decision. If it doesn't work for you, vote with your feet.

 

[Jako]

Gin you can make without a still, just soak the herbs in vodka. Of course it is not clear, but the taste is good.

oh.. Thinking about it that makes a lot of sense. might have to give that a try soon.

 

[Jayjay1976]

oh.. Thinking about it that makes a lot of sense. might have to give that a try soon.

Not even close to the same thing. Distillation allows selective extraction of the botanicals, as the run progresses each ingredient presents itself in a series of characteristics; tight cuts enable inclusion/exclusion of certain flavors. IME, the dominant flavors are rarely the most desirable ones. Simple maceration results in a muddled jumble of flavors.

 

[bracconiere]

Not even close to the same thing. Distillation allows selective extraction of the botanicals, as the run progresses each ingredient presents itself in a series of characteristics; tight cuts enable inclusion/exclusion of certain flavors. IME, the dominant flavors are rarely the most desirable ones. Simple maceration results in a muddled jumble of flavors.

isn't gin usually made with the vapor in the column? kinda like late hop additions in beer? but with sight glasses and stuff? i have a 6' reflux column, but never got around to gin. but my understanding was i want the alcohol vapors to be at the right temp in the column....

now i think about it, i loved beefeater when i was a kid...don't know why i never made any....

 

[fragged]

See you in Pittsburgh in 2022!

Oof, Pittsburgh? I guess Detroit is worse(SE Mich native), but man Pittsburgh?

Well at least it's not Cleveland I guess.

 

[Jako]

Not even close to the same thing. Distillation allows selective extraction of the botanicals, as the run progresses each ingredient presents itself in a series of characteristics; tight cuts enable inclusion/exclusion of certain flavors. IME, the dominant flavors are rarely the most desirable ones. Simple maceration results in a muddled jumble of flavors.

sounds like i should just stick to beer. i have 0 idea how all of that works. who in history things of this stuff.

 

[bwible]

isn't gin usually made with the vapor in the column? kinda like late hop additions in beer? but with sight glasses and stuff? i have a 6' reflux column, but never got around to gin. but my understanding was i want the alcohol vapors to be at the right temp in the column....

now i think about it, i loved beefeater when i was a kid...don't know why i never made any....

Yes that is my understanding. There is a “basket” inside the column they fill with botanicals. Juniper is one of the most common. But every gin maker has their own recipe and they use all kinds of stuff from citrus peels to cucumbers to fennel.

 

[soccerdad]

My mom always said she was allergic to gin. The juniper, she said. Yet working around the junipers in the home landscape wasn't an issue ?? For a few years I thought I was allergic to scotch. This was after I stole a bottle of theirs. I later thought the allergic thing was just a ruse. I definitely am over any allergy to 18 year old single malt.

 

[bwible]

 

[BrewZer]

Oof, Pittsburgh? I guess Detroit is worse(SE Mich native), but man Pittsburgh?

Well at least it's not Cleveland I guess.

When's the last time you were in Pittsburgh?

 

[matt_m]

When's the last time you were in Pittsburgh?

Or Detroit
Or Cleveland

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

I'd gladly go to Pittsburgh anytime. Plans for a wedding in Cleveland later this summer with the reception at Great Lakes Brewery.

 

[Steveruch]

When's the last time you were in Pittsburgh?

When I started looking to move Pittsburgh was high on the list of possibilities. Unfortunately the high closing costs and property taxes took it out of the running.

 

[MaxStout]

I have a few relatives in Pittsburgh. I remember what it was like back in the '70s. That town has done a pretty good job of reinventing itself in the following decades after the steel industry took a hit and it's quite vibrant now. It's no longer your daddy's rust-belt town.

 

[fragged]

When's the last time you were in Pittsburgh?

Or Detroit
Or Cleveland

Years, maybe decades... I was in Detroit last week. Twice, and both ends of the spectrum - Downtown and the hood. Can't wait to get back to being able to hit Corktown and then a game.

I'm sure both Pittsburgh and Cleveland have lovely downtown areas now too, and deplorable hoods.

My original comment was tongue-in-cheek-RDWHAHB btw.

 

[day_trippr]

I spent a month of weekends in Pittsburg in winter back in 1976 in the basement of what is now UPMC Montifiore, trying to get a brand new mainframe memory system design of mine to play nice with the host IBM system. The hospital was looking for a bargain and our crack marketing and engineering VPs sold them on the notion that we'd get the first prototype working on their site for a hefty discount, only work on it the from midnite Friday to midnite Sunday and for sure would have their system up at 00:00 Monday AM. Which we always did.

I figured we'd be lucky to get things 100% in a month under those circumstances, but we made it happen. I didn't see much of Pittsburg - I'd get flown in Friday and flown back out Monday morning. And I did have the misfortune of food poisoning from a local Arby's (the one and only time I ever ate at one of those) but fortunately that happened after we'd turn the system back on a Sunday night. So I don't really have much of an impression - dated and likely irrelevant as it would obviously be now. Probably a good thing

Cheers!

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Pittsburg, Kansas?

 

[soccerdad]

Pittsburg, Kansas?

No. Texas. Home of Louie Gohmert-Pyle.

 

[matt_m]

I got food poisoning on a work trip. Wouldn’t wish that on anyone except maybe my current project manager.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

@matt_m Please realize I didn't "like" your post because you got food poisoning. No fun.

I was "liking" the "wish".