Is it necessary????

[mudhen5]

Has anyone had experience pitching right out of the pouch (wyeast), without making a starter? I'm curious how it turns out.

 

[indigi]

It turns out fine in beers less than 1.050 OG, although it's easier on the yeast (and thus better for the beer in the long run) if you make a starter anyway. I used to skimp out on this without any real problems.

 

[Anubis]

I too have heard of plenty people doing this with no problem. But if you calculate pitching rate for your OG you almost always end up with using a starter. I like to make them so I do it for every batch, but I can be a real beer geek sometimes.

 

[kanzimonson]

Don't be lazy, pitch proper amounts. It's so easy to take shortcuts, but don't do it with yeast.

There's a reason why there are so many threads out there where people exclaim, "Wow, now that I've incorporated starters into my brew process, my beers are better than ever!"

 

[Yooper]

Well, that's an open ended question! There are many things in brewing that aren't really strictly necessary. I mean, you can make beer with canned LME and sugar.

But there are many things that can improve a beer. One is fresh ingredients. One is temperature control. One is pitching the correct amount of yeast for each fermentation.

You can make good beer without a starter. You can make great beer with good ingredients, temperature control, and the proper amount of yeast. Many people are happy with "good enough" and that's absolutely fine. You can make "good enough" beer without a starter most of the time. Sometimes it'll be really good. Not consistently, and not predictable. But it will usually be "good enough".

There are quite a few people who have sent "I make great beer without a starter and without fermentation temperature control". I believe them. I believe that they think their beer is great, and that's wonderful. However, a couple of times people like that have sent me a beer or two to sample. Um. Well, I'm glad they like their beers, as that is the important thing.

I guess my point is that only you can decide if a starter makes a difference in your brewing. If you're sending it to a competition, then yes. If the beer tastes great to you as is, then no need unless you want to. If you want to make the best beer you can, you will want to.

 

[Revvy]

It turns out fine in beers less than 1.050 OG, although it's easier on the yeast (and thus better for the beer in the long run) if you make a starter anyway. I used to skimp out on this without any real problems.

It's really a good idea to make starters when using ANY liguid yeast for all beers above 1.020 OG...

The biggest reason I suggest folks make a starter is if you make one you'll have peace of mind.

And you won't be starting an "is my yeast dead" thread in a couple of days. (Which then one of us will answer with...."Had you made a starter..."

Making a starter first insures that your yeast is still alive and viable before you dump it in your beer. You will be less likely to start one of those "is my yeast dead?" threads that are on here every day.

You will also ensure that you have enough yeast usually the tubes and smack packs are a lot less yeast that you really should use for healthy fermentation.

Making a starter also usually means your beer will take off sooner, because the first thing that the little buggers do in the presence of wort (whether in a flask or in a fermenter) is have an orgy to reproduce enough cells to do the job...So it won't take such a long time in the fermenter since they started doing it in the flask.

Additionally it is better for the yeast to consume and reproduce incrementally rather than just dumping them into the fermenter...The yeast will be less stressed out than if you just dump them in.

Stressed out yeast can lead to a lot of off flavors...maybe even (though rare) the dreaded autolysis....Or the curse of 1.030....getting a stuck fermentation because the yeast have bit the dust.

So making a starter proves your yeast is still healthy, allows you to grow enough yeast to do the job, cuts down on lag time, and ensures that you will not get off flavors or stuck ferementations from stressed out yeast.

Also has to do with the actual pitch rates of the smack packs and tubes, and has to do with the data that Jamil Z has on his mr malty website.

I'll quote some of it, but really you should look at the stuff there;

http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php

Ales & Lagers

The general consensus on pitching rates is that you want to pitch around 1 million cells of viable yeast, for every milliliter of wort, for every degree plato. A little less for an ale, a little more for a lager. George Fix states about 1.5 million for a lager and 0.75 million for an ale in his book, An Analysis of Brewing Techniques. Other literature cites a slightly higher amount. I'm going with Fix's numbers and that is what the pitching calculator uses.
The Math

If you're curious, here is the simple math to calculate the number of cells needed. For an ale, you want to pitch around 0.75 million cells of viable yeast (0.75 million for an ale, 1.5 million for a lager), for every milliliter of wort, for every degree plato.

(0.75 million) X (milliliters of wort) X (degrees Plato of the wort)

* There is about 3785 milliliters in a gallon. There are about 20,000 milliliters in 5.25 gallons.

* A degree Plato is about 1.004 of original gravity. Just divide the OG by 4 to get Plato (e.g., 1.048 is 12 degrees Plato).

So, for a 1.048 wort pitching into 5.25 gallons you need about 180 billion cells.

(750,000) X (20,000) X (12) = 180,000,000,000

As an easy to remember rough estimate, you need about 15 billion cells for each degree Plato or about 4 billion cells for each point of OG when pitching into a little over 5 gallons of wort. If you want a quick way of doing a back of the envelope estimate, that is really close to 0.75 billion cells for each point of gravity per gallon of wort. Double that to 1.5 billion for a lager.
Pitching From Tubes, Packs, or Dry Yeast

Both White Labs and Wyeast make fantastic products and you can't go wrong with either one. There are differences between their strains and each brand has pluses and minuses yet neither is better than the other across the board. Use the brand your local homebrew shop carries, if you need a way to decide.

A White Labs tube has between 70 and 120 billion cells of 100% viable yeast, depending on the yeast strain. Some cells are much larger than others and there are more or less per ml based on size. (The information on the White Labs web site stating 30 to 50 billion cells is out of date.) We can just assume there are around 100 billion very healthy yeast. You would need 2 tubes if you were pitching directly into 5.5 gallons of 1.048 wort to get the proper cell counts.

A Wyeast Activator pack (the really big ones) and the pitchable tubes have an average of 100 billion cells of 100% viable yeast. The smaller packs are around 15-18 billion cells. You would need 2 of the large packs if you were pitching directly into 5.5 gallons of 1.048 wort to get the proper cell counts. For the small packs, you'd need eleven of them!

But to make it easier he has a great pitch rate calculator http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

And according to his numbers on his calculator, really any beer above 1.020, you should be making a starter for.

Me personally when I use liquid yeast I just make a starter. I may not be as anal as some brewers and makes sure that I have the exact cellcount for whatever gravity beer I am making, but I do make one for the above reasons I mentioned, namely peace of mid, and a reduction in lag time.

Seriously, that's one way to insure you have clean tasting beer, not to stress out or underpitch your yeast.

 

[Bulls Beers]

I've done it many times. I mostly do a starters for my lager beers. If I'm making a Kolsch, I'll just pitch the WL029 yeast with no starter..Works for me.

 

[kanzimonson]

And you won't be starting an "is my yeast dead" thread in a couple of days. (Which then one of us will answer with...."Had you made a starter..."

Yes! I want to staple this to people's heads.

 

[permo]

Do yourself a favor and learn to make starters.....my beers have improved vastly since I started pitching tons of healthy yeast, using nutrient and aerating properly. You get clean, fully attenuated beers every time.

It is amazing what flavors yeast produce when stressed out and underpitched...some good, heffe....some bad.

 

[sudbuster]

Well, that's an open ended question! There are many things in brewing that aren't really strictly necessary. I mean, you can make beer with canned LME and sugar.

But there are many things that can improve a beer. One is fresh ingredients. One is temperature control. One is pitching the correct amount of yeast for each fermentation.

You can make good beer without a starter. You can make great beer with good ingredients, temperature control, and the proper amount of yeast. Many people are happy with "good enough" and that's absolutely fine. You can make "good enough" beer without a starter most of the time. Sometimes it'll be really good. Not consistently, and not predictable. But it will usually be "good enough".

There are quite a few people who have sent "I make great beer without a starter and without fermentation temperature control". I believe them. I believe that they think their beer is great, and that's wonderful. However, a couple of times people like that have sent me a beer or two to sample. Um. Well, I'm glad they like their beers, as that is the important thing.

I guess my point is that only you can decide if a starter makes a difference in your brewing. If you're sending it to a competition, then yes. If the beer tastes great to you as is, then no need unless you want to. If you want to make the best beer you can, you will want to.

Exellent advice, Yooper. No One could add substantially to that.

 

[Airborneguy]

Well, looks like I'm the dissenter again...

I made starters religiously for awhile after a trip to Colorado and a brew session with one of my best friends. He talked all night about how a starter was absolutely necessary and convinced me.

A few months later, I finally perfected and started using my first fermentation temperature control which allowed me to control temps within 1º+/-F. Because of this, and because I had not noticed any appreciably difference when using starters, I decided to go back to pitching straight from the smack pack. I noticed a HUGE improvement in my beers with the temperature control, and no difference that could be attributed to the change in yeast pitching.

I now control my temps in a freezer, and still rarely use a starter. I don't find it necessary. My lag time tends to be around 10 hours, but my sanitation is impeccable so I don't fret over that. As for peace of mind as Revvy said, well, a ton of batches with no starter and awesome results is my peace of mind

I am confident that my beers are not only acceptable to me because I have multiple beer enthusiasts, independent of my homebrew club, in my family/friends circle who all hound me constantly for beer. Since my second year in this hobby, I have never received a complaint. In my homebrew club, I have been rated the #2 brewer out of almost 25 members, a few of whom I personally think are better than me.

I really think a lot of what gets discussed in regards to brewing comes down to personal preference and the number one most important thing of all: attention to detail. If that principal is adhered to, there are many different ways to accomplish the same goal in this hobby.

 

[lumpher]

starters? o yeah, i remember those... i use dry yeasts, and don't bother unless brewing VERY specific kinds