Is AG reaally worth it?

[ChimayLover]

So, I've made 4 extract batches so far. While they are far from undrinkable, they have all just been "ehhh". I'm thinking i just dont like the taste of extract beer. I use DME, pay close attention to sanitation, close attention to hop schedules, do not drink the beer until about 4 weeks in the bottle, and i brew with spring water and boil for 45-60 min. All of my extract beers have a noticeable "twang" aftertaste and while they taste like strong beer, they are not the type of beer I would usually want to buy a case of. Not very balanced, the flavor is kind of stale, there is a twang, etc... I would much rather have a Sam Adams or Harpoon. Anyway, how much of a difference is there in the taste of all grain beer? I want to make the switch if it is worth it, but if it tastes like extract brew then probably not. Is the quality of all grain compared to extract worth making the switch? Any tips to improve the taste in extract? I've never tried any extract beers other than my own, so maybe im just missing something...

 

[kenb]

Yes, do it and you will never go back. I had the extract twang as well, and it vanished on my first AG batch....

 

[Iordz]

I can't comment on the quality of extract brews because I only did one and moved to AG, but I know there are extract brewers who win competitions and awards and make good beer. Brewing is all about freshness and quality ingredients, this is especially true with extract brewing. All grain, for me, is worth all the work and effort. I make the beer exactly the way I want to make it, there are no limitations! Not to mention the amazing, fresh flavor, it's kind of like home squeezed orange juice.

 

[EdWort]

Yes, do it and you will never go back. I had the extract twang as well, and it vanished on my first AG batch....

+1 It changed my life! (as he sips on his all grain Bavarian Hefe with a wonderful banana clove nose on it)

 

[mrk305]

I have switched to partial mash recently and there is a big difference in taste. So much so that I will be going all grain soon. Just need a couple more things like a cooler for mashing and a wort chiller. It is lots cheaper, too. I have been using around 6.5 pounds of grains and steeping in the oven in a large SS pot for 90 minutes at 152 and then adding extract to acheive gravity. I got a turkey fryer last weekend and a big monster used cajun style propane cook stove. Bye bye twang.... Try partial mashing. You can definatly taste the difference. Same equipment you already have, just different techniques. Then I bet you will want to go all grain like I am and so may others.

 

[Funkenjaeger]

I too have heard tales of extract brewers brewing award-winning beers. But frankly, I don't know what their secrets are, because even after doing quite a number of extract batches and getting quite a bit of experience, my beers were still mediocre. The day I did my first AG batch I was instantly hooked, and I haven't touched extract since then except to make yeast starters. Even though I was doing AG for the first time, my beer came out better than any of my extract beers ever did - and have continued to do so. AG may be more work during the brewing process, but it seems to be easier to produce really good beer with it, in my experience.

 

[Iordz]

I think you can make good beer with extract but all grain brewing is like the holyland. It is the last step you take and you can't turn back once you've started, not that you'd want to. I remember my first batch (extract) being mediocre, at best, my second (AG) being terrible (long story short, got an infection), but my third (AG) was amazing!

 

[Moonpile]

In my first round of brewing some 15 to 10 years ago, I never totally got rid of the extract twang. I restarted this spring and right off the bat I felt like I was doing better and by using more DME and less LME and by doing late additions I felt like we essentially got rid of it.

Then we did a partial mash which was just heads and shoulders above what we had done. We're now going AG for all the various reasons: more control especially over lighter colored worts, less expensive batches, simple interest, etc.

That said I know that we could continue to make extract batches that we're well pleased with, and we've all said that if we're having trouble fitting an AG session into our weekend schedules we'll try to schedule an extract + grains session, since we can generally do that on a weeknight.

 

[Sherpa FE]

+1 It changed my life! (as he sips on his all grain Bavarian Hefe with a wonderful banana clove nose on it)

Ed,
I sure wish you lived near me, so I could learn to brew Hefe with you. Seems we both have the same taste for German beers. When I get off this deployment, I am going to have to hit you up for some recipe's.
Josh

 

[BrewBrain]

I wish I could have done a mediocre extract beer. Mine were all throw aways. I tried to choke them down, but they ended up down the drain. Some people apparently can do it. They are far better than I.

I decided to try an all grain just to see if it would make a difference. On the first one I had horrible efficiency and missed gravity horribly, got a stuck mash and had to siphon the beer into the boil pot, forgot to add gypsum to the mash, dropped my strainer in my beer and God knows what else. The beer was awesome!. :rockin:

I also find the all grain process more satisfying, quality aside. I feel more like I created something vs. cooking something if that makes sense.

 

[malkore]

extract twang or not...going all grain is going to give you absolute control over the brew.

for me, that alone made it worth it.
I do think my AG beers are better than my extracts, though I only have 3 under my belt so far. but my one and only PM was better than the extracts I made too.

 

[McCall St. Brewer]

Yes, it's worth it. Also, very, VERY worth it is kegging instead of bottling.

But, back to extract vs. AG. I made some extract brews that I was very happy with. Not only that, but all my extract brews were very drinkable. I never had to dump any of it.

I learned two important things, though, just as I was switching to AG.

First, adding your extract later in the boil really helps. You get much better hop utilization that way, and it also helps the flavor not to boil the extract for as long.

Second, doing a full boil and using a wort chiller instead of an ice bath really makes a difference in your flavor.

Still, going AG has been well, well worth it. I really like the results I have gotten. IMHO I can make much better beer using all grain.

 

[McCall St. Brewer]

I would have to say that going all grain has been well worth it. I think that I have been able to make much better beer that way.

Still, all my extract brews were drinkable and some of them were, IMHO, downright good.

With all due respect to those who posted on this thread saying that their extract batches were no good, I wonder if you have been doing something wrong? There is no reason why a properly made extract batch should not be good if you use good ingredients, practice good sanitation techniques and follow a decent recipe.

Bottom line for me, though, is that my all grain brews seem to be better than my extract brews were.

 

[thndrdad]

I'm just getting into all grain brewing, but if you haven't made an extract brew that wasn't a thousand times better than mass produced beer than I would keep trying.
After all your really just making your own extract with AG.

 

[Bobby_M]

In my opinion, there are several factors that make an all grain batch better that are on the fringe and not directly associated with where the fermentables come from. I think the more of these activities you do with extract, the closer you get to the quality of all grain.

1. Full Boils (hop utilization and less carmalization).
2. Fast Chilling (better clarity/cold break, lock in hop aroma).
3. More practice. (it's likely that your technique is maturing about this time).

 

[abracadabra]

I can't really speak to the extract brewing as I've never done it. My first attempt was an All Grain disaster. But still the beer came out OK in my opinion and others said they thought it was great!

I too like Sam Adams but I like the Winter Lager, Black Lager, Brown Ale, Old Feziwig, Holiday Porter and Octoberfest. I'm not much of a hop head so I can take or leave regular Sam Adams Lager.

But as I brewed more AG's and made fewer and fewer mistakes the beer has really improved to the point where I now think it's great and my family and friends rave about it.

Is it worth it? All that time and money, on a strickly economic basis I'd say probably not. I figure I'll break even sometime around 2085 give or take a decade.

Is it worth it? The satisfaction of an excellent fresh beer enjoyed with family and friends at the peak of it's flavor, as a hobby that you enjoy doing, the pride of learning and mastering a new skill. That's a question you'll probably have to answer for yourself.

 

[craiger_ny]

Once you go all grain you will never go back. The flavor is outstanding but just as important is the level of control over fermentables vs non-fermentables. The mashing (starch conversion) process also opens all kinds of doors in regards to adjuncts available to you.

 

[ohiobrewtus]

I'll chime in with another vote for 'once you go AG you will never go back'.

The investment required is fairly minimal, and the process of brewing is much more enjoyable. There's almost always something to do when you're doing AG as opposed to extract where you essnetially do your boil and you're done.

The quality and taste of the beer you produce is the main reason to make the move. I made the jump about 20 batches ago and my beers taste much better.

 

[PseudoChef]

For me, it's not all about the end-product. Yes, I do like control, I like a less carmelized beer, and I do believe in extract twang.

For me, most of it lies in the fun and chemistry behind the mash. If I were to have an extract brew day now, I'd be bored out of my mind, and not having any fun; it wouldn't accomplish anything for me. AG is challenging while extract isn't, IMO. I need to beat that challenge in order to feel a true sense of accomplishment.

I get all giddy thinking about my brew day, how I'm going to use this base grain in this recipe, while substituting this other grain, etc.

 

[TexLaw]

If you can get quality extract (i.e., not stale), like to brew British styles, and don't want to spend more than three or four hours in a brewing day (from setup through cleanup), then extract brewing is perfect for you.

If you can't get quality extracts, then AG definitely is the way to go. If you want to brew something other than British styles, then AG is the way to go. Your only price is some gear, some time, and more chances to mess something up.


TL

 

[McCall St. Brewer]

In my opinion, there are several factors that make an all grain batch better that are on the fringe and not directly associated with where the fermentables come from. I think the more of these activities you do with extract, the closer you get to the quality of all grain.

1. Full Boils (hop utilization and less carmalization).
2. Fast Chilling (better clarity/cold break, lock in hop aroma).
3. More practice. (it's likely that your technique is maturing about this time).

Excellent point! Just before I made my first AG brews, I did a couple of full boil extract batches. It really made a difference to get better hop utilization and to do a fast chill. Going AG has continued to improve things.

 

[BierMuncher]

...My first attempt was an All Grain disaster...

I bet I know what was missing from your process.

Extract brewing is good.
Ragu pasta sauce from a jar is also "good".

But all-grain...that's like grandma's home made maranara sauce using tomatoes she grew in her garden...

Can't compare the two.

It's also unlikely that you'll get an extract beer to ever look like this:

 

[olllllo]

If you can get quality extract (i.e., not stale), like to brew British styles, and don't want to spend more than three or four hours in a brewing day (from setup through cleanup), then extract brewing is perfect for you.

If you can't get quality extracts, then AG definitely is the way to go. If you want to brew something other than British styles, then AG is the way to go. Your only price is some gear, some time, and more chances to mess something up.


TL

+1 on that point.
If you are getting bad extract, consider that you may also get bad grain, hops and advice from whereever it is that you are getting supplied.

There's a skill set involved in scaling up and going all grain that will make you a better brewer no matter what process (extract or all-grain) you use from that point forward. Some of my best extract beers were made during the crossing over point.

 

[olllllo]

It's also unlikely that you'll get an extract beer to ever look like this:

View attachment 3251

You're giving HB_99 a reason to bump up his post count, aren't you.

 

[IowaStateFan]

You're giving HB_99 a reason to bump up his post count, aren't you.

I was thinking the same thing. He's posted some pics of some mighty fine looking beers made with extract.

 

[abracadabra]

I bet I know what was missing from your process.

Extract brewing is good.
Ragu pasta sauce from a jar is also "good".

But all-grain...that's like grandma's home made maranara sauce using tomatoes she grew in her garden...

Can't compare the two.

It's also unlikely that you'll get an extract beer to ever look like this:

View attachment 3251

How much would you like to bet ?

How much could you afford to lose?

 

[olllllo]

How much would you like to bet ?

How much could you afford to lose?

I'm hoping that this is an amicable rivalry.

 

[Beerthoven]

SWMBO misses the smell of boiling wort in the house. Maybe this winter we'll do up an extract brew for fun.

Now that I've done AG, I wonder how an extract brew would taste to me.

 

[BierMuncher]

I'm hoping that this is an amicable rivalry.

I'm showing my winkie...

 

[ChimayLover]

Well, i think youve convinced me to go all grain! Thanks for the great insights!!!

MIke