Is 54 Diastatic Power enough?

[Bayou Fatma Brewer]

Do any Brewers research the Diastatic Power (DP) of their Home-brew Malts/Recipe’s ?
I’m putting together an English Strong Bitter but the small amounts of Crystal Malts and the Roasted Malts knock the DP down to 54. I know it should be above 35 but was concerned about having a DP of 54.
Should I mash longer ? I brew 5 gallons using BIAB method and don’t want a 6+ hour brew day to be wasted.
Any advice on a DP of 54 and if that’s enough for conversion?

 

[doug293cz]

What is your complete grain bill? DP of only 54 for "small amounts" of crystal and roasted malts seems unlikely if the vast majority of the grain bill is base malts (typical DP > 100.)

Brew on

 

[BeerHolic]

54 should be fine. I have done brews with DP lower than 54 with no issues.

 

[Miraculix]

54 is fine.

 

[geezerpk]

I've always been under the impression that crystal malts do not require receiving diastatic powers from base malts to release their sugar content. Just the heat of the mash water itself.

 

[Miraculix]

I've always been under the impression that crystal malts do not require receiving diastatic powers from base malts to release their sugar content. Just the heat of the mash water itself.

Most crystals still contain starches. While it's ok to just steep most of them, you won't get the starches this way. Also the longer sugars from the crystal might get chopped shorter ie. more fermentable when enzymes are present during the mash.

 

[Bayou Fatma Brewer]

What is your complete grain bill? DP of only 54 for "small amounts" of crystal and roasted malts seems unlikely if the vast majority of the grain bill is base malts (typical DP > 100.)

Brew on

Amount	Fermentable	Cost	PPG	°L	Bill %
5 lb	Bairds - Maris Otter Finest Ale Malt		37.7	2.5	43.5%
0.75 lb	Briess - Caramel Malt - 60L		35.4	60	6.5%
0.50 lb	Briess - Victory Malt		34.5	28	4.3%
5 lb	Simpsons - Finest Pale Ale Golden Promise		37	2.4	43.5%
0.25 lb	Briess - Carapils Malt		34.5	1.5	2.2%

 

[Bayou Fatma Brewer]

Most crystals still contain starches. While it's ok to just steep most of them, you won't get the starches this way. Also the longer sugars from the crystal might get chopped shorter ie. more fermentable when enzymes are present during the mash.

I will be mashing but was under the impression that Crystal, Speciality and Roasted Malts have zero DP

 

[pvtpublic]

Crystal malts have already been converted before roasting. Everything thing else has only been kilned and roasted.

 

[Bayou Fatma Brewer]

54 should be fine. I have done brews with DP lower than 54 with no issues.

Thanx…I’m going to Brew it. Fingers crossed

 

[DBhomebrew]

It'll be just fine. UK malt usually doesn't have the stratospheric DP numbers as US malt. It makes great beer, though!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I've always been under the impression that crystal malts do not require receiving diastatic powers from base malts to release their sugar content. Just the heat of the mash water itself.

Crystal malts have already been converted before roasting. Everything thing else has only been kilned and roasted.

Most crystals still contain starches. While it's ok to just steep most of them, you won't get the starches this way. Also the longer sugars from the crystal might get chopped shorter ie. more fermentable when enzymes are present during the mash.

An experiment that show differences between mashing and steeping:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/testing-fermentability-of-crystal-malt.208361/

 

[IslandLizard]

From:
https://www.simpsonsmalt.co.uk/our-malts/finest-pale-ale-golden-promise/Simpsons Golden Promise:
Diastatic Power IOB "Dry": Min 45 - Max 70

From:
https://www.bairds-malt.co.uk/the-1823-heritage-collection/maris-otter-finest-ale-malt/Bairds Maris Otter Finest Ale Malt:
Diastatic Power IOB: Min 60

So at a minimum your average DP will be around 45.* But the actual DP depends on the DP of the malts on hand, and for those you'd have to look up their lot number data.

I'd do an Iodine test after 60 minutes mash, that should tell you if it needs more time.

* (5*45 + 5*60) / 11.5 lbs = (225+300) / 11.5 = 45.7

 

[doug293cz]

Amount	Fermentable	Cost	PPG	°L	Bill %
5 lb	Bairds - Maris Otter Finest Ale Malt		37.7	2.5	43.5%
0.75 lb	Briess - Caramel Malt - 60L		35.4	60	6.5%
0.50 lb	Briess - Victory Malt		34.5	28	4.3%
5 lb	Simpsons - Finest Pale Ale Golden Promise		37	2.4	43.5%
0.25 lb	Briess - Carapils Malt		34.5	1.5	2.2%

I'm used to working with the American malts, and didn't realize that English malts can have such low diastatic power.

Brew on

 

[DBhomebrew]

British brewers use adjuncts, but much much less than their American colleagues.

 

[day_trippr]

The DP ranges for those two base malts are huge. Definitely need lot based data to calculate a legit number for the mash, but it does appear even worst case it'll be above 40...

Cheers!

 

[shetc]

British brewers use adjuncts, but much much less than their American colleagues.

Are you sure? Plenty of British ale recipes call for sugar.

 

[doug293cz]

Are you sure? Plenty of British ale recipes call for sugar.

Might be referring to starchy adjuncts like corn or rice, that require extra DP to assure conversion.

Brew on

 

[IslandLizard]

Might be referring to starchy adjuncts like corn or rice, that require extra DP to assure conversion.

Brew on

Torrified wheat (or rice) are classic British adjuncts (with 0 DP).

 

[DBhomebrew]

US malting barley is bred for BMC. Does British brewing use anywhere near that much adjunct in the mash?

 

[Bayou Fatma Brewer]

Well I brewed it and came out with 1.060 OG. Mash 5.36 @ 15 minute.
Efficiency was 77% tasted nice from the Hydrometer Tube. Guess it’s gonna be fine.

 

[Bayou Fatma Brewer]

The DP ranges for those two base malts are huge. Definitely need lot based data to calculate a legit number for the mash, but it does appear even worst case it'll be above 40...

Cheers!

I use Brewers Friend software. That’s where I got the DP-54. My Mash was 5.36 at 15 minutes. Most of my Brews are around 88 DP or higher. I was worried about the DP 54 but I guess it worked out. Was a brutal Brew day. Temperatures were pushing 96 + degrees out there. Might name it Brutal Brew

 

[Bayou Fatma Brewer]

I'm used to working with the American malts, and didn't realize that English malts can have such low diastatic power.

Brew on

I believe it’s because of a lack of Nitrogen in their soils (read that somewhere)

 

[doug293cz]

I believe it’s because of a lack of Nitrogen in their soils (read that somewhere)

Wouldn't low nitrogen also lead to low protein content, since proteins are built from amino acids?

Brew on

 

[DonT]

This thread is fortuitous for me... I was just looking at Simpsons Golden Promise and was worried about the low DP...

My Mash was 5.36 at 15 minutes

Not sure what you're referring to...?

 

[doug293cz]

My Mash was 5.36 at 15 minutes

Not sure what you're referring to...?

Pretty sure that's the mash pH.

Brew on

 

[DonT]

Pretty sure that's the mash pH.

Brew on

Doh!

Couldn't find a Homer Simpson emoji....

 

[Bayou Fatma Brewer]

This thread is fortuitous for me... I was just looking at Simpsons Golden Promise and was worried about the low DP...


Not sure what you're referring to...?

Mash PH

 

[MaxStout]

If you're ever worried about DP, you can always sub a pound of wheat malt.

 

[doug293cz]

If you're ever worried about DP, you can always sub a pound of wheat malt.

Or, toss some alpha amylase enzyme into the mash.

Brew on

 

[day_trippr]

^witch craft^

 

[MicroMickey]

https://crescentcitybrewtalk.com/has-it-got-the-power/