IPA Fermentation Problem/Question

[whitnes10]

Hey there,

I started an IPA (Painted Black is the name). I have made many brews with no problems, but I have a concern with this one.

After day 2 of sitting in the primary fermenter, it took a look and the yeast had already completely broken, which I have never experienced before. I immediately, transferred the beer over to the carboy and put the airlock on. It has now been in there for 2 days and I have not noticed any activity in the airlock since it has been transferred.

Any thoughts? Is my brew going to be alright?

Thanks

 

[Revvy]

You should have left your beer alone in primary to complete fermentation, just because the krausen might have "broken" whatever that means, doesn't mean fermentation was complete.

Remember an airlock is nothing by a vent to release EXCESS co2, not a fermentation gauge. It just is a way to prevent the buildup of co2 from blowing the top off the fermenter. Often the co2 gets out elsewhere, or fermentation is simply not producing EXCESS co2.

The only way to know how fermentation is proceeding or if it is complete is by taking gravity readings. Typically on the 7th or 10th day after you pitch your yeast, and again 2 days later, if the numbers are the same fermentation is probably complete. Many of us prefer to simply pitch yeast and come back in a month then keg or bottle, but for those who choose to rack to a secondary (which is evenly split nowadays in the brewing community between leaving it in primary or moving it for "normal beers") I recommend taking grav readings and/or waiting 14 days after pitching, this gives the yeast plenty of time to slowly wind down, and also start to clean up after itself the stuff that lead to off flavors.

You moved it way too soon.... by taking it so quickly off the yeast you may have removed enough of the yeast to finish the job. At this point I encourage you to leave your beer ALONE for 2 weeks, just let it do it's thing... More than likely the yeast will still try to finish your beer.

But in 2 weeks please take a gravity reading and compare it to what the final gravity for that beer should be, if it' 5-10 points off you may want to add some more yeast and give it another couple weeks.

But in the future I encourage you not to rush to do anything until you check the gravity, and not be so quick to move your beer. Also not to worry what your airlock does or doesn't do...it's not an accurate indicator of what the yeast is doing.

Airlocks bubble or they don't for various reasons...this should give you an idea why they're useless indicators of fermentation.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jzT_KTTZ0Q[/ame]

Also read this article about relaxing and letting the beer do it's thing.

 

[whitnes10]

Okay thanks for the help and suggestions. I generally just follow the directions that come with the recipes. The directions always say after adding the yeast to only allow it to say in the primary with the lid rested on the top for a maximum 5 days before transferring over to the carboy. It does say to check the gravity, but I haven't been doing that with my batches over the past year or 2 because every time the yeast (krausen) started to fall, the gravity was perfect.

I will for now on check the gravity though.

So for future beers, it is best to keep it in the primary bucket with the lid rested on top for about 2 weeks/until the gravity is proper? If so... when I transfer it to the carboy, how long will I keep it in there for or is it again gravity dependent?

This sounds like a completely different process then my instructions Nobel Grape always provide, because I have always bottled my beer within the range of 2 weeks from start to finish.

Any help is welcome, as I just want to make the best beer I possibly can!

 

[Yooper]

I keep mine in the bucket, with the lid on tight, and an airlock on it. That way, it's safe for a long time from oxidation and other issues.

Does your bucket not have a hole for the airlock, so that's why you transfer it to the carboy?

 

[whitnes10]

I keep mine in the bucket, with the lid on tight, and an airlock on it. That way, it's safe for a long time from oxidation and other issues.

Does your bucket not have a hole for the airlock, so that's why you transfer it to the carboy?

Yes you are correct, my bucket must be an older style bucket and does not have a whole for the airlock. It is just a solid lid, so therefore I rest the lid on top of the bucket and leave it until the yeast starts to collapse and at that point I transfer over to the carboy with the airlock. Usually this happens in about 3 days, from the start of my beer.

 

[atom]

Yes you are correct, my bucket must be an older style bucket and does not have a whole for the airlock. It is just a solid lid, so therefore I rest the lid on top of the bucket and leave it until the yeast starts to collapse and at that point I transfer over to the carboy with the airlock. Usually this happens in about 3 days, from the start of my beer.

drill a hole and get a rubber grommet.

 

[Revvy]

Any help is welcome, as I just want to make the best beer I possibly can!

Don't leave your hydrometer in the bucket...just do what every book, every website, every brewer who advocated taking gravity readings does, and open the buck, take a sample, close the bucket, and repeat as necessary. Don't be afraid of doing that. It's what everyone does and won't ruin your beer that way...

Racking the beer when you don't need to, THAT's more apt to ruin your beer... Following crappy instructions will ruin your beer... panicking and trying to fix something that is probably fine will ruin your beer. Rushing the process, that will make for less than stellar beer.

But practicing the correct diagnostic process (i.e. Taking a gravity reading) will not ruin your beer.

Did you read the article I linked? Your beer is much more hardier than that.

You can open your fermenter a couple of times and you WON'T hurt your beer...just don't spit in it, or splash it around. Just open, grab your sample, and close it... 10 seconds? 20? No big deal.

Also much has been written on here (most of it by me) about the benefits of long primaries vs racking to secondary. Even many authors who originally influenced how most instructions are written have backed off and changed their mind.

This is one of the oldest and best discussions on long primaries vs secondaries...probably every question you could ask has been covered in there.

There are many ways to make great beer, the best way is to try different ways and see what works best for YOU.

What works best for ME, and has netted me the medals I've won (when I entered contests,) and just made for great tasting beer (I have a lot of beer judge and professional brewer friends, and they all seem to like my beer, so I figure I'm doing a good job)

(1) Is to make sure I have plenty of yeast (that means a starter if it's liquid yeast, or the right amount of dry for the beer I'm brewing)

(2) Make sure there's plenty of oxygen to help the yeast do it's job. I use an oxygen bottle and stone, but there's many ways to do it, including splashing the heck out of the wort before you pitch yeast

(3) Making sure the temps are right for the yeast I'm using and the time of year...that means having something to warm it up if it's too cold, or cool it down if it's too hot... For heat I use a temp controller I made from an stc-100 aquarium controller, with a heat belt, or an electric blanket or just making sure the fermenter is in a warm place.

For cooling I use a swamp cooler, which is just a big tub with water that if I need to I can stick frozen water bottles in and swap them out, or an old fridge or space in my keezer if there's room.

(4) THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE...

I pitch my yeast and walk away for a month... That's it... I don't futz with it, or anything. If I'm not adding fruit, or dry hopping or doing something where I MIGHT need to move it to a secondary (which is rarer and rarer for me these days I usually do everything from dry hop to add fruit to my primary) to bulk age it, I LEAVE IT ALONE.

I trust the yeast to do the job they've been bred to do...AND I know that after they finish they will go back and clean up any off flavors they made during fermentation, then I let them go dormant, and fall to the bottom of the fermenter, then over the last week or so they will compress on the bottom, and when I CAREFULLY rack to a keg or bottling bucket I have 5 gallons of clear and crisp tasting beer that gets compliments and sometimes awards.

I don't cold crash, I don't use moss or finings of any time...I just let time and the yeasts do what the do best.

And THIS ALSO MEANS IPAS...people think you need to rush your ipas "because the hops will fade" but they forget that IPA travelled the world in barrels for months and years and still managed to be tasty...Let your beer ferment, and clear will mean you will have a BETTER IPA than a green one....

At week 3 I dry hop for the last week of the 4 weeks, and then bottle or keg.

If I DO secondary, or age in my oak barrel I STILL wait a month, again to make sure fermentation is complete, and the yeast settle out....which means less yeast down the line. But I only go to secondary to bulk age if It's going to be longer than 2-3 months...I've left beer in primary IN A BUCKET undisturbed for at least 6 or 8 months with no issues, and the beer was still fine. So if it's going to be a couple of months, and I'm not going to just rack to a keg, I don't worry about a secondary.

But that's pretty much it.... How I've been doing it for 10 years now.... Those simple steps and having a solid recipe (and sanitization of course) is all anyone really needs to do to make great beer.

Start with those things, and add water chemistry, ph balance, and other things and you won't have any trouble making great beer.

And especially figure out what works for you.

 

[ncbrewer]

drill a hole and get a rubber grommet.

From the OP's write-up, I don't think the bucket lid seals. I'd get a new bucket with a lid that seals if it was me. And include an airlock.

 

[whitnes10]

Revvy - Thanks so much, you've been a big help. I have definitely enjoyed my home brew over the years, but I am not going to try doing it this way and check out the difference.

Couple more questions for you - Since I have an old style bucket (I believe) with just the solid top. To brew using your method, what type of bucket should I be looking to purchase? I'm assuming one that has a top with an airlock on top? And when I brew with this type of bucket, do I have to change over the type of airlock that is used?

 

[Revvy]

Revvy - Thanks so much, you've been a big help. I have definitely enjoyed my home brew over the years, but I am not going to try doing it this way and check out the difference.

Couple more questions for you - Since I have an old style bucket (I believe) with just the solid top. To brew using your method, what type of bucket should I be looking to purchase? I'm assuming one that has a top with an airlock on top? And when I brew with this type of bucket, do I have to change over the type of airlock that is used?

Despite what others may say, there's really nothing wrong with that bucket, without an airlock. That is an old style fermenter bucket, quite common, by leaving the lid loose (maybe with a book on top) the co2 will find it's way out of there. Some folks use things like a sheet of plexiglass on top of their fermenter to do the same thing, no airlock...they can look down and see what the beer's doing, the weight of the plexi keeps bugs out AND lets the co2 leak out of the side.

If you want, and that lid snaps down on it you can always buy an airlock and get a 5/8" rubber grommet. You would drill/cute a 1/2 inch hole in it, then slip the grommet in it, and slide the airlock in the hole.

Or you can do like in this pic (of a jar fermenter) get a bigger stopper, and put a bigger hole in the bucket lid.

In the future, if you want you can get ALE Pails like this...

But I'll say it again, airlock really aren't important.... they're meant to release built up gasses while at the same time making it hard for insects to easily work their way into the fermenter. People put too much emphasis on them, especially new brewers thinking it's an accurate measure of fermentation.

It gas is getting out, but it doesn't tell you if it's co2, or oxygen, or why it's degassing (maybe from a change in barometric pressure or a truck driving past your house) and it doesn't measure what exactly the yeast is doing to the beer.

Hope this helps.

 

[kombat]

Listen to Revvy. He's giving you excellent advice.

 

[whitnes10]

Perfect! Thank you so much.

I may pick up a new bucket but if not, it's good to know I just just put the top on lightly and leave it as is, instead of transferring to a carboy.

Take care all and happy brewing!

 

[Revvy]

It just occurred to me, if your bucket fermenter is "standard sized" then you might be able to just pick up a lid...but IMHO you can never have enough fermenters.

 

[ruascott]

Perfect! Thank you so much.

I may pick up a new bucket but if not, it's good to know I just just put the top on lightly and leave it as is, instead of transferring to a carboy.

Take care all and happy brewing!

If you've got a carboy, just put it straight in there and use that as your primary.

 

[Revvy]

If you've got a carboy, just put it straight in there and use that as your primary.

If it's a 5 gallon carboy for secondarying it will be too small for a fermenting 5 gallon batch of beer. Fermenting carboys are 6 or 6.5 gallons leaving enough headspace for krausen.

 

[whitnes10]

It is a 23L Primary pale. Then there is about 4 or 5 inches to the top when it is filled with 23L of brew.

 

[whitnes10]

I believe it is a standard size. It's time for a new one anyway. I've been brewing out of this for about 5 years now and before that was making wine for about 5 year out of it.

 

[christyle]

Your instructions, as well as the ones included in many kits are oversimplified and don't account for a few things, including extra steps that aren't totally necessary, but make for a better product. If you have the means to measure gravity, pull a sample and do so after a week or so. As stated, that is your best indicator for the progress of your fermentation.

I never used my bucket to ferment, I went straight to carboys, so I would suggest getting a 6.5 gallon plastic Big Mouth Bubbler, I love mine for primary. They're only like 30 bucks.

 

[ncbrewer]

Despite what others may say, there's really nothing wrong with that bucket, without an airlock. That is an old style fermenter bucket, quite common, by leaving the lid loose (maybe with a book on top) the co2 will find it's way out of there.

Revvy: I always assumed, but never tested to be sure, that leaving the lid loose for a few weeks would allow oxygen to get in. Very interesting that you've found this not to be true.

 

[atom]

And THIS ALSO MEANS IPAS...people think you need to rush your ipas "because the hops will fade" but they forget that IPA travelled the world in barrels for months and years and still managed to be tasty...Let your beer ferment, and clear will mean you will have a BETTER IPA than a green one....

i agree with most of what you said, but let's not confuse those IPAs with today's american IPAs. they are NOT the same beer.